[Tempest210]

I've read post after post on this site about people asking vista questions, about finding drivers, system problems, and what-not, and they get the same "You must be a MSDN tester" if you not, you shouldn't have it, etc, etc.

So should anyone really care? I mean, it's a Beta. I remember when you could get a beta copy of XP. Does anyone really think someone is using a beta copy of XP these days????
Over and over people are told, the beta is missing key features, after all it's a BETA.

I just checked a few sites and found builds 5231, 5259, 5270, and 5308 to download. Like music, it's out there, and there is no stopping it.

These people downloading them are the “curious minds” and might be the “few” that would upgrade to vista or build/buy a vista ready rig (at some point.)

No one is going to use or keep an OS that's not stable for very long, and these beta's have lots of problems. So why not let them play, at the end of the day who cares.

And if someone is Foolish enough to trust their data to a Beta OS, then let them.

Edited by Tempest210, 04 March 2006 - 11:48 PM.

[Advertisements]

They can do whatever they want but its still illegal and if you read our ToS g2g will have nothing to do with illegal activities.

[warriorscot]

They can do whatever they want but its still illegal and if you read our ToS g2g will have nothing to do with illegal activities.

[Tempest210]

I understand this can be viewed as an “illegal activity”, but really we are talking about a Beta OS, not something that’s sold in stores right now, and something that’s merely being looked at by the curious.
Also, would you have us believe that on your computer ‘right now’, you don’t have a single downloaded song you didn’t pay for, or anything else, game/utility/application, etc.
I think when it come to computer ‘geeks’ and tech people, everyone has something they didn’t pay for on their system.
Just because this site doesn’t want ‘anyone’ talking about ‘illegal activities’ isn’t making it go away.
I’ve thought about downloading the beta of vista, to see for myself if the ‘hype’ is all that it’s claimed to be, but as of right now I just can’t be bothered. It’s not like it going to function in any real way that I can see myself using more then I use Linux right now.

Plus I still think anyone taking the time to download a 2GB file, is someone more likely to buy vista when it comes out then the rest of us 'Fence sitters'.

Now if someone was talking about trading the 'Finished Product', that would be a Different story all together.

[warriorscot]

What you do on your computer is none of our business we just cant help you break the law and steal someones OS or anyother product. It wont make it go away but why should we openly flaunt the law and risk this website to help a handful of people who should know better.

There is also no real need for anything that is illegal when you can get most everything you need opensource, you can get most anything legally for free for computers including games and music.

I dont see what time it takes to download a 2Gb file thats not that big it would only take less than a day to get.

[dsenette]

I understand this can be viewed as an “illegal activity”, but really we are talking about a Beta OS

it's not "Viewed as" illegal...it is illegal...people get this thought in their head that beta means free....beta means not finished....if a company (such as microsoft) has a VERY strict and specific schedule for their beta testing (not to mention a VERY specific group of testers) then anyone not in that schedule or group, has absolutley no right to the software...plain and simple...so this isn't a matter of us just thinking and feeling it's illegal or anything to do with whether the people STEALING vista will be the ones who buy it.....it's about it BEING illegal....untill windows opens vista up for consumer testing....if you're using vista that you didn't get from an approved channel...then guess what...you're a pirate and a thief and you just make this stuff harder for the rest of us....if people wouldnt steal software so often....the software market wouldn't be quite so strict...

[admin]

You're violating the terms of service. It's illegal.

[Tempest210]

WOW, do you guys work for microsoft???
I would be completely in Agreement with you if we were talking about the finished product, but as the Beta version of vista isn’t being sold in stories I don’t see any ‘lost of sales’.
Also maybe you could provide me/us with a list of beta software currently ‘for sale’.
Beta might not mean free, but it doesn’t mean the riches man in the world is getting screwed out of any money either.

Edited by Tempest210, 08 March 2006 - 11:53 PM.

[Ryan]

A good reason why MS has certain groups test it is that they can provide better bug reports than the average Joe can. These bug tests are important to get the OS to shelves quicker, and save MS some money.

I would be completely in Agreement with you if we were talking about the finished product, but as the Beta version of vista isn’t being sold in stories I don’t see any ‘lost of sales’.

Maybe not "loss of sales" at the moment, but think about all the time that has been put into this project by countless programmers and other MS staff. Lots of money has been put into Vista. Now, if everyone just illegally downloads and installs the beta, then nobody will need to buy the finished product, and MS will not have money to continue working on updates and other projects. They will have to layoff people, and we would see either a) lower quality in the products and updates, or b) more time in between updates. Both of these are bad for the honest consumer.

Although I'm quoting the XP EULA, I'm sure that there isn't much difference (if any) between it and the Vista one.

3. RESERVATION OF RIGHTS AND OWNERSHIP.
Microsoft reserves all rights not expressly granted to you
in this EULA. The Software is protected by copyright and
other intellectual property laws and treaties. Microsoft
or its suppliers own the title, copyright, and other
intellectual property rights in the Software. The Software
is licensed, not sold.

15. TERMINATION.
Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may
terminate this EULA if you fail to comply with the terms
and conditions of this EULA. In such event, you must
destroy all copies of the Software and all of its
component parts.

See, it doesn't even matter that Vista isn't being sold; you don't own the OS, you're able to use it pursuant to the EULA (End User License Agreement), and once you violate the terms, MS can terminate your use of their product, and force you to remove and destroy it. Its basic contract law. You don't abide by it, you can be sued. Plain and simple.

[dsenette]

WOW, do you guys work for microsoft???
I would be completely in Agreement with you if we were talking about the finished product, but as the Beta version of vista isn’t being sold in stories I don’t see any ‘lost of sales’.
Also maybe you could provide me/us with a list of beta software currently ‘for sale’.
Beta might not mean free, but it doesn’t mean the riches man in the world is getting screwed out of any money either.

doesn't have anything to do with money...it has everything to do with licensing...microsoft says it's not an open beta...so it's not an open beta...if they had made vista a public beta..there would be no issues...but THEY decided that they don't do that...WITH any of their O/S's.....it's plain and simple...i don't know why so many people don't understand that....

if i've got a product...and i want it tested...but not by everyone...i give it to a test group...anyone else who get's their hands on that product...stole it...it's a simple concept

[Tempest210]

If you read my post you will see I haven’t condoned piracy, but if you just look over the messages post on your site by ‘staff’, they are constantly posting messages, like, ‘where did you get your copy of vista’, like anyone from the MSDN group would be posting here, but I see when someone says, ‘I downloaded it from the ms site, or they are a tester for MSDN, they are free to ask the question, which I feel then is a blind eye approach.

Look the point I was trying to make is, should you care where they get if from, isn’t that a job for the people working for Microsoft.

And I still can’t image someone using a beta OS, with lots of features missing for very long, and I still feel strongly that these ‘hobbies’ will be the guys lining up to buy vista first, as your average computer user doesn’t even know how to install an OS in the first place.
But your point has been taken, so this is all I will have to say on the subject of MSDN testers. But maybe ‘staff’ should lighten up a bit too.
For the most part this is one of the better run boards, with some good info. So thanks for letting me at least share my Difference of Opinion.

(No one got hurt right?, Okay, good to go...?)

[Kat]

I think when it come to computer ‘geeks’ and tech people, everyone has something they didn’t pay for on their system.

That is a pretty broad assumption, and an incorrect one as well. Being computer geeks, we know how to get programs and things for free the LEGAL way.

Just because this site doesn’t want ‘anyone’ talking about ‘illegal activities’ isn’t making it go away.

It has nothing to do with not talking about it. It has to do with the fact that it is against our TOU to discuss or condone illegal activities. Short and sweet and to the point.

Plus I still think anyone taking the time to download a 2GB file, is someone more likely to buy vista when it comes out then the rest of us 'Fence sitters'.

Actually, I disagree completely. Those people who will download the beta illegally will also download the full version illegally.

Look the point I was trying to make is, should you care where they get if from, isn’t that a job for the people working for Microsoft.

Yes, we should care where they got it from. Again, we don't help people with illegal activities, therefore it is critical to us to know if they are using an illegal O/S.

and btw...we have a couple of Microsoft employees as Experts on this Staff.

But maybe ‘staff’ should lighten up a bit too.

Wrong. The Staff who have responded to this thread and others like it have been courteous and polite. They are simply doing their job, and upholding the rules of the site. They aren't passing judgement on a 'personal' level. Rather, they are doing what they agreed to do when they took on their positions here.

As you said, no real harm done, but this thread has most definitely run its course. I am going to close it now.