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IDE Raid


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#1
troppo

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has anybody heard of raiding IDE hard drives after talking to a computer technician he suggested that i should raid 3 hardrives on level 5 is it worth it?

he said that having 3 100Gb hard drives and raiding them would be a good performance upgrade and also i couldnt loose any data?
is this worth it? and is it a high performance increase?

would 3 100g hardrives with 8 mb cache be effective he said that having 3 100 GB hard drives would still only show up as 200G could someone explain this to me or give me a good link to this?

thanks for your help
troppo
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#2
SuperSam

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Raid is a good use for computers, you have a certain amount of HDDs, and they will all work as one. For instance (we will call the hard drives HDD1 HDD2 and HDD3) in my computer in windows, you will only see one hard drive (I believe) and it will work as a normal 100gb HDD. When you put data onto HDD1 it will copy the information from HDD1 to HDD2 and HDD3. Now, in the unlikely event of a hard drive corrupting or failing, blowing up etc you will not loose any data.

If you replace the hard drive the other two hard drives will begin to replace the files that were on there previously. *Note that all hard drives have to be identical.
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#3
RuddyRum

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I don not beleive that you can RAID IDE... only SATA & SCSII drives can be added to a RAID array.

As for the benifits of a RAID, it will depend completly on what you are wanting from it... if it is performance you are after, RAID0 (striped RAID) is the one you want. Look into RAID abit more before you come to a final conclusion!
You will also need to re-install your OS with the f6 driver after you have setup a RAID

And finaly, just confirming what supersam said, when you've installed a RAID, it will only show 1 HDD in you OS.
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#4
troppo

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i no that it will look like it has 1 hard drive.
the guy said that you can raid ide drives (i no i havent heard much about it either) but he said it can be done but i didnt think that you could get much more performance out of ide drives.

also i havent made a decision yet im still trying to get some information

but i will be using the drives mostly for dvd editing and general saving of large files. but raid 5 sounds good because whatever happens as long as you can replace the drive with an identical 1 you cannot loose any data

what would you suggest that i should use?

i spoke to him about a sata 11 host controller card but he said they arnt available in australia yet does anybody no why? i no you can buy sata II hard drives here so why not the controller card?
my motherboard doesnt support sataII so im sure that you should be able to find a card but i have had no luck the only only ones i can find run on pci-express which my board doesnt support ( model listed below )

anyideas
thanks for the advice
troppo
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#5
RuddyRum

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most new-ish intel mobo's have onboard raid controllers, so extra hardware wouldnt be required! check with your mobo manufacturer to see if it supports raid (most recent mobos do, if you have pci-e it should, but im not garanteeing anything!)

If your board doesnt support sata2 then just sata drives will suffice!

If you are saving large files, but have not had a history of data loss, i would recommend just sticking without raid! you will have more space this way, and can store more data... RAID is usually really just implemented in server environments. the only common RAID in desktops is a RAID0, as it enhances performance
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#6
troppo

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but then u have no redundancy,
u can loose all of ur data i copy home dvd movies to the hard drive i have a sony dvd handycam

well what would u suggest?
i have thought of buying a sata II host controller card but i have had no luck finding them
they have them for pci-express but not pci any help in finding one would be appreciated
thanks
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#7
dsenette

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personally....i find that RAID is useless for the home user

RAID 5 WILL NOT give you any speed bennifits...it's main advantage is data integrity...contrarty to post #2...RAID 5 will write data on drive one and 2 then write parity info on drive 3...if your raid is set up ONLY to write parity on drive 3....and drive 3 dies...then your raid is screwed...most systems will rotate which drive get's the parity info so taht this is less of an issue....

you can do RAID with ide drives as long as you have an IDE raid controller...

but...like i said..you wont see a speed increase with RAID 5 for sure (and honestly...not with any of the other raid configurations) because the data is having to be written twice (then the parity)...so...how could it move faster? it's all about data safety.....the best bet would be to have however many large fast disks you want...and do regular backups...
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#8
SuperSam

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The technician is just really selling you stuff you don't need. I originally bought 2 Western Digital 120GB HDDs for Raid, after realising it was just pointless and that I only had half the space I possibly could I just removed raid and continued with 240GB HDD space.

Raid is mostly used in servers, in my 2 servers, I have raid on them with 4 x 80gb seagate HDDs. I put them in the servers as the data I have is extremely important, and if I losed any I would be screwed.

My verdict:
Don't use raid, pointless, more for servers. And how often does a hard drive blow up, granted cheaper drives blow up, but reasonably priced ones are stable. I have had my own computer since 6 (am 14 now, 15 on the 29th March - soon, whoop :tazz:) and since then I have had no problems with hard drives personally. I also rarely hear other peoples hard drives have blown up or broken.

The choice is yours.

Edited by SuperSam, 20 March 2006 - 11:40 AM.

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#9
Kemasa

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You can setup IDE drives as a RAID array. There are hardware units and also software which can be used, but I would not expect to see any performance improvement in a PC based system and you might see a decrease due to the overhead. RAID0 is actually AID, no R, and if one drive dies all is lost since the data is split over both disks.

One issue with IDE drives is that if the master dies, you will not be able to access the slave, so you could have problems depending on what the RAID unit does. If it marks both as bad, then you are done. It is best for IDE to have one drive per channel or a very good unit/software.

A RAID5 with three 100Gb disks would show up as 200Gb as a single disk.

You can still lose data, but it is much less likely. In part it depends on what you are using and how it deals with write errors and other issues. I have seen expensive units have issues where the write on one disk fails and it does not get properly dealt with since as far as the system is concerned the data was written. This meant that it was needed to read the whole array from time to time to ensure that there were no read errors. If you get a read error and then a disk fails, you are SOL.

Contrary to what was said, in a RAID5 setup, you can lose any disk without losing data since it does not need the parity or it can re-create the data with the parity. That is the whole point of RAID. The parity is nothing special really.

The decision to use RAID or not depends on how critical the data is and whether it is worth the risk of data loss. It might be possible that doing backups is enough to ensure no data loss. If you have constantly changing critical data, then it is a good idea. If you have data which you still have a copy and you can backup the data to a DVD or some other media, then it is not really needed. Use of RAID requires more knowledge since it is not 100% perfect and you need to know where the risks are and how to deal with them. Also, you are at the mercy of the manufacturer with regards to the quality and how much your data is at risk.

For example, a short time ago I was working on a system which failed a drive. I repaired the data errors (remapping), it still would not rebuild the array. I installed a new disk and it still failed. It turned out that another drive had an error which showed up when attempting to read or rebuild. After fixing (remapping) that error, I could rebuild the array with either disk. Unfortunately the system was not setup to log the errors, so the error on the second disk which unnoticed. Even if it logged the error, unless someone looked at the logs (which was not being done), you have a serious problems, especially since people think that the data is protected and that you can not lose data with RAID, which is not correct.

One thing to realize is that the RAID array will not protect against corrupt files or removal of the file, whereas a backup will, as long as you keep the backup long enough and notice the problem.

Edited by Kemasa, 20 March 2006 - 04:47 PM.

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#10
troppo

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ok im pretty sure that i wont be gettign radi wheni spoke to him i thought
1) 3 X 100G drives and only get 200G what a waste of money
2) overkill
3) why bother
and then still having to buy a controller card
all i went in there for was to see if he had or could get a sata II host controller card for my pc

then he crapped on abotu all this stuff and like super sam said i thought he was trying to sell me useless rubbish anyway.

so what do u guys think would be the best setup (in terms of hard drives) should i get
sata drives are only a litlle bit faster than regular ide drives

i cant find a sataII host controller (is there even such a thing?)

what do you guys think i should get?

around 200Gb's would be pleanty i think but still i need the performance.
(giving me a grand total of 480 GB's)
what do people think of sata II drives can they reaqlly produce 300mb/s or is that theroretical

so:
1) what should i get
2) is there a sataII host controller card for pci
3) what do people think of sataII drives
4) can they actually produce 300mb/s

thankyou all for your advice it is much appreciated
troppo :tazz:

Edited by troppo, 20 March 2006 - 08:33 PM.

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#11
troppo

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i did find this

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16816102063

exept the maximum transfer rate is 266mb/s due to the fact that it is running on pci and not pci express

but that is definately faster than 133 thats double the transfer rate
now that would work good wouldnt it with a

http://www.westerndi...asp?DriveID=136
hard drive which i can get for 132.00 australian dollars (95 us)
which has an 8mb cache

what do ya reckon i think its far better than any raid option
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