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How do stand on IDcards


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#1
fleamailman

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OK, I will start, Switzerland has had IDcards in place of passport for years, besides it is the law that one must carry ones ID(be that drivers license, passport or IDcard) on one always. I myself am very happy with it because if anything happens to me they know who I am and my blood type. I am happy that this also stops human traffic'ing because the victims could not have their ID withheld for long and get away with it. Oh, and since they don't get stamped with visas they don't fill up like a passport and the size is handy too. Ah but I also understand that most people here would find it unusual to hear the police politely asking to see ones ID first and then continuing the conversation from there(very normal here)

So I am for IDcards and for their being carried at all times. What is it like where you are then, and how do you feel about them.
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#2
Johanna

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We have rejected "National ID Cards" several times in the USA as an invasion of privacy. What would be next? A microchip in our skin with a built in GPS? In the USA it is perfectly legal to walk around with no ID. Being "unidentifiable" in case of emergency is an issue up to the individual, not the police.
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#3
frantique

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What would be next? A microchip in our skin with a built in GPS?

They already have the technology and have tested it. There seems to be a lot of movement in the US to have mandatory chips for hospital patients. And as well, I believe, it is being muted for immigrants on the Mexican Border.

This will just be the beginning - no, that's not quite correct - the beginning was having mandatory chipping for our animals. That was to get the public used to the idea of chipping. The animal chipping which is mandatory in my town (though I've not had my animals done - they are concerned about their privacy! :whistling: ) seems like a total waste to me cause if someone's dog is caught by the dog catcher it just sits in the dog pound until the owners contact the pound to see if it's there (and the pound get to charge an inexcusable amount per day before releasing it). So what's the point of the authorities insisting that animals be microchipped in order that they can be identified when nothing is done here to return them to their owners? And what was wrong with a metal disk attached to the animal collar?

ID cards have been an issue here in Australia on numerous occasions. I truly believe the Government will bring them in on the back of a really big blown out issue when we're not looking! They'll start with issuing them for welfare payments stating that no welfare will be paid unless one has a card - which kind of takes choice away from many people.

The move to force ID cards on British citizens has resulted in Neil Tennant and Chris Lowe (former Tony Blair supporters) to pen the following lyrics on the album Fundamental (The Pet Shop Boys)

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear. If you've something to hide you shouldn't even be here. You've had your chance now we've got the mandate. If you've changed your mind I'm afraid it's too late. We're concerned you're a threat. You're not integral to the project.

I'm totally against it and will resist with all my might - cause the very next step is microchipping and I do believe that is well and truly on the agenda. Smacks too much of control for me!
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#4
warriorscot

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Alot of hassle here about it, its not the ID thing most carry a drivers liscence anyway its the fact of being registered in a database with all your info from blood type to finger prints and iris scans. They have yet to show the system is cost effective and that it would help anything. Its not the ID cards its the database that people object to and the fact they want to integrate the things into everything, in a perfect world it wouldnt be a problem but its not, and while the UK government at the moment is reasonablly trustworthy they are still at heart mildly socialist which is a good and a bad thing, good we get NHS and benefits, bad socialist trick of doing what they thinks best rather than asking us, these days there is no reason not to implement a 21st century balliting system that not only would allow people to vote more easily but would allow people to vote on pretty much anything. But does the government want that stuff to be a priority NO. At least they arent Tory or BNP so im happy not all that much to complain about we even have what is becoming a 3 party system even a 4 party here in scotland.

Microchipping would have advatages, eg health monitoring would be handy to know if people are in distress and can send out emergancy services without being called, that would be good for some.

Microchiping for animals just makes sense if the animal gets lost and loses its collar as happens alot it takes seconds to find the animals owners details and phone them up, its the first thing they do when an animal is picked up if its chipped you can have it back right away.
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#5
fleamailman

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In Switzerland the IDcard is not forced on one, I mean I didn't have one for many years, so just carried my passport instead, just that one must carry some form of ID on one, also it is not cards that covers all data thing as mentioned by other posters here, just a replacement for the passport. That means that I still have a taxcard(AVS) my protection civil card(putting out chippan fire expert here) and other ones too. I too, am against my data being lumped onto one database though that will probably come into being IDcards or not, but I really do like having the card as prouf of who I am, and seeing how much it cuts down of crime and saves lives in accidents, or at least tells the finder of this body who it belongs too, I am for it.

So let me spilt this idea in three then by asking:

Are you for an IDcard, only as a replacement passport?
Are you for an IDcard as a universal replacement of your other cards including passport?
Are you for carrying an ID as law?
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#6
warriorscot

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1. No that would be rather ineffective for foreign travel and since its not required in the EU what would be the point.

2. No again ineffective impossible to put information from all your papers on one card easily and its a much large security risk, no one carries a passport unless neccesary its very hard to steal all of someones papers if its one card thats easy to steal, its also more easy to steal one large database than it is alot of little ones in different places.

3. Never and itll never be let happen here without alot of hassle so much that it would be enough to end government and the next one would have to revoke it.
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#7
frantique

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1. No
2. No
3. No

For reasons very similar or the same as Scot's. I do believe many governments do have this as an agenda. I also believe many of them are very wary of trying to bring it in. I think they are already working on the very young, though, so it will be easier to bring in with the next generation. There are schools here in Australia who have student ID cards which the students use to clock in each morning and which are used for canteen and uniform shop purchases. It was muted at my childrens' school but didn't get very far.

I believe there is too much opportunity for abuse - both by criminals and governments.
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#8
warriorscot

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I dont mind things like it where there is an aspect of common sense, alot of schools like you mention have cards like that but that suits them its a good thing it keeps the children safe reduces time needed for teachers to take registers and stops them carrying money around and allows children that get for example subsidised meals at school to get them without anyone knowing about it thus avoiding the stigma against them, there it makes sense. My ID on my drivers liscence makes sense, the problem with ID cards for everyone is it doesnt make sense and it costs alot of money £100 to a £150 for an ID card is the estimate and thats what they expect people to pay on top of that its alot of tax payers money on top of that to fund it, it doesnt make sense and its expensive thats the biggest problem if someone was able to show a need or usefulness to them they wouldnt be as heavily opposed as they are.
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#9
Octagonal

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The idea of ID cards in essence is probably not a bad thing. However, governments being governments, this may not be as ideal as they would have us believe. I would say most government departments have links to third party companies in which they exchange data and some of this data includes personal information. It has been recorded numerous times around the world how sensitive data has gone "missing" at times, and I for one do not believe that there would or could be any gaurantee that my ID information could not fall into the wrong hands, unintentionly of course.
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#10
fleamailman

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Agreed but my IDcard cost me 100 swiss francs, about 40 pounds then. I thought that in shops one has to have an ID to buy tabacco if one looked under age so I guess we are already slowly moving in the ID direction.

Geneva is almost all surrounded by France(only a small area is conected with the next canton Vaud) so it has become so normal that one carries the passport then but the card fits into my wallet.

Edited by fleamailman, 21 July 2006 - 08:26 AM.

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#11
warriorscot

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Dont you have an EU drivers liscnece, they are standard throughout the EU now and are accepted ID, they have your name, DOB, adress and photograph why would you need anything else another card to poorly replace the current passport and driving liscence schemes that are more than adequate.


You need ID to buy tobacco but tobacco itself is on the way out here and they are raising the age to 18 anyway and most people of 18 will have at least a provisional driving liscence anyway or a passport why would they need anything else.

And is your ID card fully biometric with a data chip containing all your personal records and database references to that data. Thats just one impracticality of the things, and then you have the fact that in order to read the cards you need rather sophisticated expensive kit doesnt make sense.
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