[warriorscot]

Im talking as an Engineer here ive seen the technologies and average power use of a western family wont be met by current clean energy supplies and certainly not ones in the home, also solar panels need to run a long time to make up for the extreme impact of the production they are very dangerous and polluting to make.

I wouldnt have the choice of ever living next to a nuclear reactor you cant , you arent allowed to construct them anywhere near to residential areas. And older ones have higher energy output because many of them were designed to produce weapons grade material as a byproduct true plants like the modern breeders have very little impact spending your whole life in one runs up there with a long haul air trip in terms of exposure and only the old ones leak and even at that its usually tiny our oldest at dounray leaks a bit but its nothing major it just means you cant roll in th sand on the beach and its really old now and getting replaced.

There is green attitude and realistic green, you have to balance with working practical technology and fanciful ones many clean technologies have the outward appearance of being good but stumble on practical points. Also try living near a wind turbine they are apparently very noisy and damage the environment there is alot of fuss here as the only places to put them are places of great natural beauty.

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The forum on the Steorn site continues to be interesting.

Got this link from there.....can anyone understand any of it?

http://www.nanoworld...i...?id=3&p=112

[MsSmilie]

The forum on the Steorn site continues to be interesting.

Got this link from there.....can anyone understand any of it?

http://www.nanoworld...i...?id=3&p=112

[SpaceCowboy706]

I cant believe you all missed this one back at the beginning of this thread by MsSmilie (post #5)

Now watch....if it does work, some creep will make a weapon from it!

You had better hope we make a weapon from it before our enemies do (since Canada is our ally), or in the near future you may not be able to sit in the comfort of your home, on your pc (which happens to have an internet connection) and freely express your opinions and beliefs.

In fact I am willing to bet that you could easily find a country, on this little blue ball spinning in space, that does not have the freedom that you "may" take for granted every day. I am sorry if I sound like a gun totin' war and destruction redneck from oklahoma with this post, because that is very far from the truth. I am one of those people who gladly sacrificed a small portion of my life, for your right to freely express your opinion and beliefs, but that doesnt mean I have to like, what you have to say.....

Edited by SpaceCowboy706, 02 September 2006 - 11:28 PM.

[MsSmilie]

Cowboy...I'm right with you on that!!!!! 100+++++%!!!!

I've always supported the USA in their role as constabulary of the earth. In this link, if you click on the "Statement of Principles" tab, check out the date at the top and who signed it at the bottom, you will see
some familiar names. The whole site is a very good read.
The Good Guys

[warriorscot]

In many ways the US government is the enemy they are worse at restricting freedoms of opinion than many, its just coincience the news is heavily censored and pro government and whistle blowers frequently "dissapear" or found dead only last week two were found murdered. The US has NEVER been the constabulary of the earth in fact the exact opposite they ONLY do whats in there best interest and the laws of other nations arent followed or enforced even international war regulations are blantantly flouted however they are always willing to use them against other nations but they dont apply to them. Half the worlds terrorists are or were trained by the US government indeed the men that bombed the twin towers belonged to orgainsations funded by the US in the cold war. Also freedom of speach is fine in principle in the US but in practice its something else, next time you go to the airport maybe wear an i love new york tshirt but written in arabic or something anti-war or anti-bush how much you want to bet youll probably not make your flight wearing that shirt, maybe go to school with one or go to a VA centre.

George bush is currently guilty of war crimes on several counts and is attempting to draft new laws to make him immune after the fact. But you dont here about that on many US news channels.

If you beleive that rather poor propaganda you need to seek out some alternative media sources. Ironically alot of those middle eastern banned news channels are actually quite good yes they show the all the videos but they have the advantage of being uncensored which is the reason they are banned not because they promote terrorism most dont.

I would be more worried if the US developed a new super weapon than anyone else because at least there motives are transparent.

[SpaceCowboy706]

I didn’t say that the Us Government is perfect Scott, I sad that the US is a nation were you have the ability to sit at home on your computer and type out whatever rhetoric you want and not have to worry about the secret police knocking on your door, to haul you off to a pine box.

I agree with you that our media is censored by the government. I also disagree with that statement on the belief that our government censors materials that are not in the best interest of our nation. Such as the Videos you talked about. We both know what videos you’re talking about also.

For your statement of

Ironically allot of those middle eastern banned news channels are actually quite good yes they show the all the videos but they have the advantage of being uncensored which is the reason they are banned not because they promote terrorism most don’t.

This is just an uneducated statement, if you think that AlJezara (prime example) TV doesn't support terrorists and shouldn't be banned then you have obviously not been to the Middle East and seen the reactions of these nations when these videos are aired.

These Middle Eastern news channels do nothing more than motivate the mob, strengthen resolve to resist the United States' war in Iraq (or as they did in the first gulf war, where I participated), to provide a medium where terrorist information can be disseminated. But I am not the only person that believes this because if you review your media you will see that AlJezera was bombed right along with Saddams bunkers, hideouts, and military infrastructure, not in the first gulf war but also in the second one as well.

You say that this is censorship. Bahhhh... this is nothing more than my nation’s effort to disrupt guerilla communications and anti US propaganda.

As for you’re statement of:

Also freedom of speach is fine in principle in the US but in practice its something else, next time you go to the airport maybe wear an i love new york tshirt but written in arabic or something anti-war or anti-bush how much you want to bet youll probably not make your flight wearing that shirt, maybe go to school with one or go to a VA centre.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the US Government but instead with unintelligent citizens with strong racists beliefs. I myself am a veteran and I do not see any problems with any of the scenarios you mentioned other than that they might be subject to criminal profiling by law enforcement agencies in an effort to stop actions by persons who fall into a "physical appearance" category of potential suspects for possible criminal acts against the United States.

For your statement of:

I would be more worried if the US developed a new super weapon than anyone else because at least there motives are transparent.

You have no need to be worried Scott, your nation is also an ally of the US and has supported the US in nearly every conflict since we left our homeland... err shall I say your homeland


PS....
What two whistle blowers were found dead. Could you link me to that.. I always love a good government conspiracy that makes for good reading

[warriorscot]

http://italy.indymed.../08/1135263.php there is a few sources but that was one got it on one of my rss feeds. Here is one where a man was made to change is tshirt because of idiotic government officials http://www.parkerstu.../JFK_story.html.

Some more mostly about t shirts it seems security officials are worried that under that thin cotton polyester blend these old men and women hide bombs. http://www.cnn.com/2...sheehan.arrest/

I cant get the link to work for the article on the vietnamn veteran thrown out of a VA coffee shop for wearing a Peace shirt. Heres an older one about a lawyer http://www.cnn.com/2...usa.shirt.reut/. A terrorist isnt likely to wear a PC tshirt or an arabic shirt if anything they are least likely to be terrorists, you think the IRA or Taliban would have lasted so long of they all walked around with Tshirts saying "screw the plod long live the IRA" (insert taliban for afghan version).

I havent read anything about racist citezeins this is uneducated law enforcement. Also im not talking about aljazeera there is lots of arabic news channels that arent broadcast in the US and sometimes in Europe but we do actually get them here, we actually gor aljazeera last time i got to the channels around 900 on the sky box its pretty normal news and they dont show all the tapes either obviously and its a pretty objective news channel despite its content. There are alot of other channels blocked just because they have arabic content. There is also a seperate news channel for each country just as CNN and FOX in the US are in the US government pockets aljazeera is in the pockets of some of the nations its based in. Also if it wasnt for news channels like these how would we have seen uneditied comical ali tapes from the second war.

Actually its only recently as in WWI that the US has sided with Europe in any major conflicts and most of that was self interest WWII certainly was they didnt do it for the good of their health and in the end they made a tonne of money out of it after gaining alot of technology in fact the US two biggest industries are largely based on the headstart and patents for technology they gained from WWII.

And who do you trust to censor your media for anti US propaganda you get to watch US propaganda so if you watch both they might cancel each other out. And personally the videos of hostages arent exactly good propaganda either.

Secret Police arent all that obvious either(dont think you dont have secret police either every nation in the history of nations has had a secret police only tactics vary). You can type on your computer all the rhetoric you want but its not like they arent watching and scanning every word of it, and its not like the courts are any help at stopping rampant wiretapping either they maybe dont come and put you in a box, but they can watch every move you make and the best bit there doesnt even have to be a person invloved the worlds most powerful super computers there only purpose just to watch people.

[SpaceCowboy706]

Let me ask ya Scott, do you find it "an invasion of your privacy" for the governament to wiretap your phone or monitor your email ? I have to ask because I just doesnt really bother me that big brother is watching... i dont break any laws and im not doing anything that is against any laws, so I have no worries that they wacth.

I guess I just dont understand why someone would object (a lot of people do also) to the government watching. I would kind of think it is a good idea for them to be watching and listening, so as to intercept and prevent any possible criminal acts. I think that if you have nothing to hide, then why object to the government watching and listening.

I dont believe for a second that the government likes to watch and listen for some perverse pleasure or curiosity of my online activities, but instead for my own safety. As for them wiretapping my phones, if they want to listen to me and my wife talk about what were having for dinner tonight, or listen to my mother rant and rave about my fathers doctor, then by all means go ahead I dont really care. I think it is a small price toi pay for what all I am able to do, on a daily basis.

PS...
Im not trying to persuade you to my beliefs, I just like debating these topics.

[warriorscot]

I like a good debate as well its an art alot of young people seem to have lost these days.

I dont mind so much monitoring of people who are clearly criminals or are involved in criminal activities but "big brother" should have a good reason to invade someones privacy.

Now if you allow a government to watch everything and everyone you sacrifice that all important just in case clause, what happens when a democratic government becomes a dictatorship and that can happen in ANY country or the government can go rogue and no longer represent the will of its people. At that point how do the people restore proper government if the government uses the tools to maintain peace and order to enforce a dictatorships agenda. This is something Americans particularly i think would understand your nation is born of revolutionaries who didnt wish to pay taxes and you still fervantly defend your right to bear arms even though its clearly a major problem and most of the rest of the civilised world has outlawed them to great effect in reducing gun crime and violent crome in general. But you keep those laws because of the reason they were created "just in case".

Ive never broken a law yet i would object to someone monitoring my communications without a really good reason, because even my government which by most standards is trustworthy within reason(common sense prevails in some areas still) i still dont trust them enough with my personal correspondance by breaching your personal security and privacy they open you up to attack by unscrupulous elements in themselves and elements outside. It makes me feel less secure to know the government could watch me at will and seriously puts me off going to countries where governments can do such things.

I dont trust the government anymore than i trust anyone, and why should you, indeed history teaches to distrust or at least be cautious with any governing or powerful body as they almost always abuse that power in the end. ALWAYS.

[sarahw]

Monitoring of personal information is nothing new, not many people understand the system in place. It is illegal for UK government to spy on UK citizens, US government to spy on US citizens, etc.
However, what happens is, Australia will spy on US citizens, UK on Canadians, Canadians on Australia so on, so on in a big cycle, that information is then shared freely between agencies. This makes it perfectly legal (call it a loop hole), and this system has been in place for a long time now. It's been refered to as a "anglo-saxon alliance" a system once used to spy on soviets know as Echelon...

Edited by sarahw, 03 September 2006 - 07:48 PM.

[SpaceCowboy706]

WOW where did u get that from? Never heard of that before.

[frantique]

Here's a link to some info in Echelon: http://fly.hiwaay.ne...le/echelon.html

I read my first article about this many years ago now and was in a bit of a cheeky mood at the time. The article gave a list of words and phrases that are 'picked up' by the surveillance. So I picked up the phone and dialled "time" and then read out all the words on the list! Shortly after there were constant clicks on the phone each time we made or received calls. At times we could hear voices a long way in the background when we were talking with people and the sounds were not coming from their or our location. One day I picked up the phone to make a call and dialled a number and immediately heard a distant voice saying something like "this tape has reached the end please turn over to continue recording" ... can't remember exactly what the words were but they were something like the above - freaked me out!

[sarahw]

You could have alot of fun with the old telephone systems. Blue boxes, phreaking etc. If you left the phone off the hook, you would hear a busy signal, then nothing, sometimes, you would hear a click click click. There's some good reading out there. A phone with two alligator clips, and ........ free international phone calls!!! Listen to anybody!!!
Good adolescant fun...


Pine Gap:

[sarahw]

Another good one is:
Go to a war zone with a payTV satelite point up and recieve spyplane pictures!!!!
There not encrypted or anything!!!!

edit: Well it worked in Yugoslavia

Edited by sarahw, 06 September 2006 - 02:33 AM.

[warriorscot]

Lol, for many years my gran has thought that in the 80s she could hear similar noises, and while im sure its possible it would have to be an antiquated or poorly designed surveilance system to allow feedback from the other end.

Most newer UAV and satelite system have full encryption up and down to prevent that happening now. Usually its hardware encryption to at least 128 bits usually more though.