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Total Computer Shutdowns


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#1
Kvar

Kvar

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Greetings, I recently purchased some parts to construct my new machine. The motherboard, processor, and ram odered was pre-tested, and pre-installed prior to shipment. All I had to do was install it into my existing case along with a new power supply also ordered.

Everything seemed to go in and run without a hitch. Meaning system booted up fine, installed an operating system and proceeded to load device drivers, configure various programs, and settings. I generally never shutdown the computer, as I run server applications such as TeamSpeak. So basically everything is up and running as I am surfing the net, running my voice server, enjoying listening to music or even watching TV via my TV Tuner Card without any issues.

Now I seem to be having issues while playing games. What I mean is I would start playing a game and after a bit which is totally random my entire compute would just shutdown. No error messages, no BSoD errors, and not to be confused with rebooting, but a complete shutdown as if someone yanked the power cord out of the wall kind. At first I thought it was application specific, in this case the application is World of Warcraft. Bizarre I thought, so I proceeded to install another game like StarCraft. Ended up playing that game without an issue that I recall. But playing Diablo II would would also do these random shutdown things to.

Anyways I just wanted to set the stage so you get an idea of whats happening here. I thought about maybe it being the PSU but then said well if its the PSU why will it run for weeks and maybe months if I let it without a hitch. So I darted around the net and really didnt find anything specific to my issues, however did do some of the things suggested to no avail. I recently d/l Everest Ultimate Edition to see if something would shed some light on the issue, but literally after running it my computer pulls that notorious shutdown thing again. So I am completely baffled at this point and would appreciate some insights on what to do as the hair on my head is severely thinning from pulling it out.

I have a Pentium E6300 Core 2 Duo running on an ASUS P5PE-VM motherboard with a pair of 512 Mb identical PC3200 DDR. Bought an Okia 450 Watt PSU to replace an older P4 based Antec PSU I had for when I was running my P4 1.5 Ghz.

I sincerely appreciate your time in reading and diagnosing in advance, and I look forward to seeing your responses.

-Kvar
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#2
Jack123

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01-Kvar-[Total Computer Shutdown] -25th Nov 2006

Hello Kvar & welcome to – Geeks to go

I need some clarification/expansion on a few statements -

[1]

Now I seem to be having issues while playing games. What I mean is I would start playing a game and after a bit which is totally random my entire compute would just shutdown. No error messages, no BSoD errors, and not to be confused with rebooting, but a complete shutdown as if someone yanked the power cord out of the wall kind.


QUESTIONS -
System shuts completely – OFF – Fans – Power Supply – Standby Power LED Off - ?? –

It dose not instantly, reboot?? You need to press Start Button – Does it boot up ok right away??

Or do you have to wait sometime for power to reset??

You do not have – PC Restart – Option checked – so that PC will automatically restart??

You do not get the message – Windows was not shut down Properly . . . etc ??? and that a – Check Disc Scan was not performed ??
____________________________________________________________________

[2]

Anyways I just wanted to set the stage so you get an idea of whats happening here. I thought about maybe it being the PSU but then said well if its the PSU why will it run for weeks and maybe months if I let it without a hitch.


QUESTIONS
How old is this – Upgrade –

Is this a Desktop or Tower PC – Need Model Number & Manufacturer of PC Case – Power Supply & Video Card -

Since the initial upgrade – which appears to consist of –

The motherboard, processor, and ram odered was pre-tested, and pre-installed prior to shipment.


What else was added & when did this problem begin – [with time frame of additions]??

Was Video Card updated?? -

Does the PC ever freezes – where display & Mouse locks up – where you have to reboot to continue??
___________________________________________________________________

[3]

I recently d/l Everest Ultimate Edition to see if something would shed some light on the issue, but literally after running it my computer pulls that notorious shutdown thing again


QUESTIONS
I am interested if you can run the –

CPU Sensor Report

– & attach it to your reply post so I can view it – Have the PC run for a few hours & then obtain the report – Report-1: [Kvar-SENSOR-1] See Instructions below -
___________________________________________________________________

My 1st thoughts on possible solutions–

[1]
Although 450 Watt supply should be large enough – but depends on – Quality – And/or my thoughts are that the Video Card may be – borderline on Amperage draw on Power Supply – causing power shutdown when Video Card is being used for heavy tasking -
[2]
Also Video Card may require – separate Power Connector, which may not be connected properly –
[3]
Might be – House Wiring – What all is on the Circuit that PC is Connected to – Ideally – the PC should be on its own Circuit -

You may think about the need to utilize an UPS Power Protection – You need an Unit that will Regulate the – House Voltage -
[4]
Power Supply may be – overheating – You may want to check for proper fan rotation/operation
____________________________________________________________________

After clearing up some of my questions – I may have more definite solution -
Jack123
____________________________________________________________________

Creating EVEREST Report & Attachment Instructions –

Obtain [REPORTS] – Need to [Create] & [Save] – Separate [Reports] – as HTML Documents by using [Quick Report Summary] – Mode – Save these in a Folder – that you can find - & Attach to your next Post –

Do not use Text Format – Nor do you want to embed these [Reports] in your Post – Only use [Attachment] Mode – These [Reports] – are Too Long – to place in Post – The Forum will truncate – the [Reports] + The Report will be >20 pages –

Complete the Following 2 Procedures – [How to Make Everest HTML Reports] & [How to Attach Files to your Post]
_______________________________________________________________________

1- [How to Make – Everest HTML Reports] –

Report-1: [Kvar-SENSOR-1]

1 – Expand [COMPUTER] Folder
2 – Click on [SENSOR] Folder to Highlight
3 – On Main Menu – Click on [REPORT] >On Pop Up/Down menu – Highlight [Quick Report-SENSOR] >Click on [HTML]
4 – Save to File as [Kvar-Sensor-1] & attach to POST
_______________________________________________________________________

2[How to Add Attachment to Post]-

1- Click On [Add a Reply]
2- Scroll down to bottom of [Reply Window] to [File Attachments]
3- Click [Browse] and then locate the [Everest Report Files] – That you saved on your PC
4- Click on file - it should now appear in [File Attachment] Window
5- Click on [Add Attachment] Button
6-Wait until it is added
7- Click [Add to Post] Button
8- Repeat Steps [3 thru 7] If you have other attachments to attach to Post – Otherwise skip & Go to step 9
9- Click [Add Reply] Button to send
__________________________________________________________

Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 27 November 2006 - 05:06 AM.

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#3
Kvar

Kvar

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Thank you for your response Jack123 My profile has some additional info, although I will get that info together and post a follow up.

To sum a couple of your questions up however in regards to power shutting off I would be in the middle of a task or game and monitor would go black, and and the computer would shutoff. I would have to hit the switch on my power center unit (Essentially same thing as pulling the plug out of the PSU) before I am able to power on the computer.

The video card does infact utilize a HDD power dongle, which is securely fastened to the video card. More specifically a BFG AGP FX 5900 XT OC (The OC is factory overclock) you can find that information/specs on BFG's site.

The case is an Antec Full Tower. Model number I'll try and find. However as stated above I am using an after market PSU, I never use stock PSU's provided with cases/towers what have you. Running an Okie 450 Watt PSU, model number to this and other things you requested will be provided on another follow up post.

Computer does not freeze or lock up that II recall. I do have windows 2000 configured to not reboot, however as stated before I do not receive BSoD errors, or any indication of a malfunction, the computer simply shuts down on it's own volition. And must revert to resetting switch on Power Center, then powering up from the main Tower.

The components ordered are about 3 weeks old. And have been diagnosing the issues for about 2 weeks.

Regarding Everest, it will not allow me to run tests without the system shutting down as per my previous statements. I can look at various things within Everest, but once I execute testing, computer just shuts down.

If you can think of anything else while, I begin compiling a list you requested, let me know, and I'll follow up with that information.

Thanks again Jack123, appreciate you investing your time in this matter.

-Kvar
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#4
Jack123

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02-Kvar-[Total Computer Shutdown] -25th Nov 2006

Thanks for the reply -

To sum a couple of your questions up however in regards to power shutting off I would be in the middle of a task or game and monitor would go black, and and the computer would shutoff. I would have to hit the switch on my power center unit (Essentially same thing as pulling the plug out of the PSU) before I am able to power on the computer.


Ok – (1) Monitor goes black –
(2) Computer shuts – OFF ??

Now in order to turn PC back on – You need to turn the – Standby Power – OFF ?? by removing Power Plug ???
_______________________________________________________________

This implies that the Power Supply – FAILED – and in order to turn back on – You must remove power from Power Supply & reconnect –

This action will initialize the – Power Supply Self Test – in order to obtain a – POWER ON –
Signal to the Motherboard so that the – Tower Case – Power Switch – will power up the motherboard



Research Data - [Looked at your profile]

Motherboard: ASUS P5PE-VM-
http://www.asus.com....e...2=11&l3=272



Video Card : AGP 8x NVidia GeForce FX 5900 XT OC (BFG Tech) http://www.bfgtech.com/5900XT.html

BFG GeForce™ FX 5900XT OC graphics card
Quick install manual
Power “Y” Cable
DVI to VGA Dongle

________________________________________________________

PSU Unit : 450 Watt Power Supply (Okia) http://www.pcpsinc.c...products_id=915

Specifications
AC INPUT 115V/230V - 60/50Hz
DC OUTPUT +3.3V +5V +12V +12V -12V -5V +5VSB
450W MaxCombinedWatts 28A 50A 15A 18A 1.0A 0.8A 2.5A
450W
Connectors
· 1x Main Power 20/24-Pin
· 1x 12V (P4)
· 4x Peripheral
· 1x Floppy
______________________________________________________________

The Power Rail that is failing is the 3.3 Volt Power – Power Supply is supposed to supply 28 Amps

Looking at the Video Card Website – I cannot locate the required current required – for the 3.3 Volts

The Motherboard only has a 20 Pin Main Power Connector – Now this 20 Pin Molex connector does not have the Power Rating to handle the total – Volt-Ampere rating of 3.3Volts @ 28 AMPS –

So that is why the -

The video card does infact utilize a HDD power dongle, which is securely fastened to the video card.


is required – Now your Power Supply only supplies you with - (4) Peripheral Connectors–

_____________________________________________________________

Now comes the nitty-gritty technical geek talk – Basically you have a marginal combination of components –
(1) Power Case
(2) Power Supply
(3) Motherboard
(4) Video board
You seem to indicate that it is functioning most of the time – and probably fails whenever –
(1) Video Card is fully tasked
(2) Ambient Temperature is raised

So you need to maximize the – Cooling & Air circulation which is mainly –Tower Fuction
Minimize Voltage drop which is a function of Power Supply Connectors – The dongle Power Connector needs to -
(1) Short as possible
(2) Only connected to Video Card
(3) 18 or 20 gauge wire

Remember that at 28 amps – 0.03125 Ohms can give you 0.875 voltage drop which would be over 26% loss on the 3.3 Volt voltage which cause the Power Supply to fail –

Also Over clocking will cause more current draw & higher temperature –
_________________________________________________________________

My suggestions in solving your problem
(1) Maybe backing off of the Over Clocking may help –
(2) Higher Fan Speeds –
(3) Maybe an additional exhaust Fan may help – get rid of Hot air faster
(4) Maybe freeing up the Expansion Slot nearest the Video Card may increase Air Circulation on Video Card – [giving more breathing room]
(5) Check Video Card Fan for Proper Rotation/operation
(6) Moving cables inside Tower for increased Air circulation and Minimize Air turbulence, which can raise temperature
(7) Clean out the dust bunnies in Tower
(8) Shorten up the – Dongle Plug – Avoid using a – [Y-Connector] – The Voltage drop will be too high
(9) Purchase a Motherboard that supports the 24 Pin Connector
(10) Think of Purchasing an UPS that can condition the Line Voltage during Peak Hours –
(11) Might need to improve on Ambient Air Control -

Remember just buying bigger & faster is not enough!! It requires – Engineering –
_______________________________________________________________

Do you have the CD that came with your Motherboard?? Search/Browse thru & see if you have a PC Probe Utility Program- that you can install – so you can Monitor Power Supplies – Fan Speed – Temperatures – and you can probably record/keep a record – that you can review when the dreaded event occurs – You can monitor the temperature & Voltage drops as the CPU Usage raises & Video Display increases- You can probably be able to set an alarm warning just before critical shutdown – depending how well the utility is written -

This is just an – Old Coal Miner’s – view the situation
Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 27 November 2006 - 05:11 AM.

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