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Immediate shutdown upon start


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#1
paratrewpr

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I've got an issue that I have never seen before and was hoping someone more knowledgeable than I can help out here... Randomly, when I start my computer the power supply will spin up and within about one or two seconds, the system will shut down and the power light will begin blinking. The only way I know to reset this condition is to unplug the power. When I do this the power light still blinks until the residual charge in the system is gone. When I said randomly I mean that sometimes this happens and sometime it doesn't. Sometimes I have to unplug the power cable 2 or 3 times. Sometimes I can go multiple starts without this happening.

This started about 3 weeks ago when I had to replace a hard drive. I installed windows again along with most important drivers. I also got a color laser printer connected via USB about that same time.

I have windows XP and a P4 on a ASUS P4T board.

Since nothing gets started except for the bios at this early a time in the start process, I'm thinking its either something in the power supply or Bios. Anyone have any ideas?

If I need to post more info about this just let me know.

Thanks all,
Jeff
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#2
Kurenai

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Generally speaking, that's a power supply issue. Any chance that you have another power supply handy to test?
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#3
Jack123

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01-Paratrewpr [Immediate Shutdown on Startup] -27th Nov 2006

Hi Paratrewpr & welcome back to – Geeks To Go –

I agree with Kurenai –

Generally speaking, that's a power supply issue. Any chance that you have another power supply handy to test?


But that may be the result – not the Root Cause – The new Hard Drive or Installation may be the problem –

This started about 3 weeks ago when I had to replace a hard drive. I installed windows again along with most important drivers. I also got a color laser printer connected via USB about that same time.


Why did you have to replace the hard drive & why did you have to reinstall Windows?? – Here are some troubleshooting ideas - [Concerning the Drive Installation]

(1) Is it new or rebuilt or old drive from previous system – [May be defective??] – 0r – Installation problem
(2) Try disconnecting [Drive] Power Plug & look for Damaged or bent pins & reconnect if OK
(3) Try disconnecting [Drive] Data Cable & look for Damaged or bent pins & reconnect if OK
(4) Try loosening the – Mounting screws – on Drive – Sometimes they are too long & cause internal short on PC Board – or the Case may be twisted/stressed which could cause problem –
(5) Do a close visual check around where you were working & see if you see any pinched wires or dangling loose wires

Replacing Power Supply will not do any good if – Root Cause – is not discovered & corrected -

Also – is this the same PC that I helped you with last May –2006?? – Or is this the same
(1) Motherboard
(2) Hard Drive??
(3) Power Supply

Refer to – Previous Post – May 29th 2006 - Topic :Burnt spot on Motherboard -
http://www.geekstogo...s...=114642&hl=

________________________________________________________

I need more info on your PC – As much as you can supply – And also what was the result of previous PC??
I need to verify that the current Power Supply is compatible with current system – so include specification data with the – PC Information – Also need to know the number of – Fans –

Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 27 November 2006 - 06:34 AM.

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#4
paratrewpr

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Thanks for the responses yall... what a great site with a great bunch of folks.



Generally speaking, that's a power supply issue. Any chance that you have another power supply handy to test?


I don't but can get one easy enough I suppose.


Why did you have to replace the hard drive & why did you have to reinstall Windows??


Well the old hard drive had been giving me some issues for some time... clicking noises, freezing up, failure to start... finally it gave up the ghost so I installed a new one. The old one was a 40gb and the new one a 80. The old one was being used as the C drive with operating system. I also have another drive (D) and is used predominantly for storage and some larger programs. So the replacement was also installed as the C drive with a reinstall of windows.


Here are some troubleshooting ideas - [Concerning the Drive Installation]

(1) Is it new or rebuilt or old drive from previous system – [May be defective??] – 0r – Installation problem


New... from the box. Installation was pretty simple, just pull and put. I did use the new cable so I suppose there is the possibility that it might be bad. Anyway, it went in without an issue so I haven't given much thought to that being the cause.


(2) Try disconnecting [Drive] Power Plug & look for Damaged or bent pins & reconnect if OK
(3) Try disconnecting [Drive] Data Cable & look for Damaged or bent pins & reconnect if OK


...good to go there. all connections snug and seemingly secure.


(4) Try loosening the – Mounting screws – on Drive – Sometimes they are too long & cause internal short on PC Board – or the Case may be twisted/stressed which could cause problem –


didn't think of that... I'll check that after this post and will repost after if anything odd is found.

(5) Do a close visual check around where you were working & see if you see any pinched wires or dangling loose wires


I'll double check that...

Also – is this the same PC that I helped you with last May –2006?? – Or is this the same
(1) Motherboard
(2) Hard Drive??
(3) Power Supply


Nope... I took that one out back and shot it. Strange though that two power supply issues would come up in the last year after having owned computers for nearly 20 years. I should note after saying that, that this computer and the one involved in the instance you referred too are in separate rooms on different circuits. Additionally, this computer is hooked to an APC UPS.

Related to the power issue... I have several peripheals hooked up via USB including 2 laser printers, vid cam, keyboard, mouse, scanner, and game pad. Does power distribution head to the peripheals before the OS is started? ...specifially during the time when I'm shutting down? I figure of course the keyboard and mouse have power as that's evident but am not sure of the rest of the devices. If so, that might be causing a drain.... ya think?

I need more info on your PC – As much as you can supply – And also what was the result of previous PC??
I need to verify that the current Power Supply is compatible with current system – so include specification data with the – PC Information – Also need to know the number of – Fans –


First, I'll start with the power supply... Its an Antec that came with the case. Peak output says 180w on the power label. Further down, it says 323w when combined with the +12v spec. If that's only an effective 180w, I think that might be the problem. The thing is though, I've had this system for about 4 or 5 years pretty much the way it is except that just recently I went from the 40gb drive to 80gb plus the new printer. It wouldn't seem like that would push it over the edge but then again... the straw that broke the camel's back was pretty light.

Have only 1 fan not counting the chip and power supply fans.

I'll stop there because I think the power supply might be the issue... if you think otherwise or want the full specs just let me know... happy to provide more data.

Thank you again for your time!
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#5
Jack123

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02-Paratrewpr [Immediate Shutdown on Startup] -28th Nov 2006

Ok – Usually with – Power Supply Issues – I try to discover what significant activity occurred prior to the time – Problems Started – Usually it is an – Upgrade –

Most PC Manufacturers will just install the smallest – Adequate – Power Supply to operate the system as sold – And do not allow for any additional – Upgrades – Power Consumption –
___________________________________________________________________

First –

First, I'll start with the power supply... Its an Antec that came with the case. Peak output says 180w on the power label. Further down, it says 323w when combined with the +12v spec. If that's only an effective 180w, I think that might be the problem. The thing is though, I've had this system for about 4 or 5 years pretty much the way it is except that just recently I went from the 40gb drive to 80gb plus the new printer. It wouldn't seem like that would push it over the edge but then again... the straw that broke the camel's back was pretty light.


Yep - You would think that upgrading from a 40gb drive to a 80gb drive would be safe enough – Except for the 4-5 years – time span with a – Manufacturer’s Adequate Design Practice -
POWER SUPPLY BACKGROUND INFO –
A 400 Watt PSU – Purchased 5 years ago – does not mean you were getting 400 Watts, maybe 250, but that depends on who and how they made it -- But don't get worried yet. A 400-2000 MHz CPU takes between 40-60 Watts (Peak). A P4 3.2Ghz takes 89-103Watts (Depending on CPU model). A video card takes about 30-60 Watts, unless you're getting the latest NVidia 5x00, 4x00 that takes about 90 Watts (Peak). Hard drives take about 5-10 Watts. Your motherboard takes about 10 Watts. Fans take 2-5 Watts. A typical computer system takes in total about 190 Watts Peak, 160 Watts average/idle.
A normal switching type power supply is only 50%-60% efficient and so can only handle 50%-60% of the wattage the power supply is made for. If you have a 350Watt power supply, you can safely get about 210 Watts of Average Power out of it – but the – Peak Value Specification will be the Major Limiting Upgrade Factor –
So with the – Antec 180Watt Peak – your system – I would say is a bit – Power Anemic – from the beginning – And that any small increase in Power Consumption – would be overtaxing the Power Supply – And keep in mind – that Peak – means maximum at any given time – And that on Initial Startup – You will have the Maximum Inrush Current – And this is where the – Peak Rating – has a significant meaning -
____________________________________________________________________

Secondly -

Related to the power issue... I have several peripheals hooked up via USB including 2 laser printers, vid cam, keyboard, mouse, scanner, and game pad. Does power distribution head to the peripheals before the OS is started? ...specifially during the time when I'm shutting down? I figure of course the keyboard and mouse have power as that's evident but am not sure of the rest of the devices. If so, that might be causing a drain.... ya think?


Now it depends on how the power is supplied – By the Peripheral Power Pack or via the PC Power Supply USB Power Rail – which is generally 3 AMPs – so if you have a lot of USB devices that are receiving Operation Power from the system USB Power – You should consider using a USB HUB Expander that has it internal USB Power – The items that generally require a External HUB would be – Video Camera – USB Powered Scanners – PDA – iPOD – which could draw – 500 milliamps each – {USB Standard) – Again it is not the total current draw – It is the Total Inrush Current – which could exceed 3 amps for a few milliseconds –

The Power Protection Circuitry has to be PDQ – [Pretty Dam Quick] – When you are operating in – Nanoseconds -
______________________________________________________________________-

Finally – Here are some guidelines for selecting power supplies –

1st item is to make sure it will fit in your Case
2nd item is that it is compatible with your Motherboard Connectors
3rd item is verify that the – True Power –is adequate for any immediate upgrades you have in mind –

Here are some relative websites -

Antec - http://www.antec.com...IYArticle1.html

Examples http://www.antec.com...owerSupply.html

Articles - http://www.antec.com/us/info_DIY.html

Calculator - http://www.extreme.o...m/powercalc.jsp

FAQ - http://www.antec.com...aqDownload.html

You may want to search thru – System Building & Upgrading Forum – that is located just South of the – Hardware-Components& Peripherals Forum – for more on selecting a new Power Supply -
________________________________________________________

Jack123
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#6
paratrewpr

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Dang good information there... once again, thank you for your valuable assistance!
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