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problem with my video card


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#1
blindu

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Well now i have figured out the reason why my gaming has been lacking performance wise... its my video card. i have an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256 RAM, and when i play games or even before that, i touch the vid card, its really hot. i took the case off my comp so that i could do that. everytime my games get graphically intensive, my FPS drop reallyfast and my whole computer slows down. i also nopticed that the fan on the card barely dispenses air.. idk how to improve the air flow, because i had some other boards in front of it, btu i moved them because i thought it would be better. this card is about 2 years old.. and i got it from a friend and i honestly think that this is still a pretty good card... so how could i fix it? thanks in advance!
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#2
Titan8990

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Have you tried cleaning all the dust out of the fan? Either way it might be a good idea to add another case fan if you have room.
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#3
Jack123

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01-blindu [ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256 RAM runs hot]-15th FEB-2007

Well now i have figured out the reason why my gaming has been lacking performance wise... its my video card.


Hi – blindu – It appears to me that you have been experiencing this issue for sometime – So - I have reviewed your earlier posts – Keyboard & Mouse Lag –
http://www.geekstogo...s...=145632&hl=

It appears that you had this – Video Card – Installed at this time – How long have you had this Video Card?
The following is quoted from that Post – Is this the same PC –

My specs are:
Compaq Presario, about 5 years old
2.4 GhZ
512 RAM
256 RAM ATI Radeon 9800 Pro


Also you had problem with slow computer with this Post –
http://www.geekstogo...s...=139986&hl=

You had quoted the following results – Which indicates – PC is working fine – [Yes] – [No] –

okay done all of that. thanks man. i really appreciate it. take care of urself. the comps working really good now.


Did you have this – Video Card installed at this time – I am just trying to figure the origin of problem – Did you just install this Video Card – I just need some more background/history on this problem – Need more PC Info

(1) Type – Desktop / Tower
(2) Model Number
(3) Motherboard Model
(4) Power Supply – MFGR – Model – Wattage
(5) Has this Video Card ever work properly in this PC
(6) How many Hard drives
(7) What upgrades from original Buy –
(8) How many cooling Fans -

Do you have any – Temperature & Voltage Measurement Utilities installed in PC – If you do – Post the results – if not – Do you have Motherboard CD?? – If you do – Browse thru CD – You should have this Temp Monitor Utility – or download – Speedfan -
http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php

Another good program – Home Edition of EVEREST –
http://www.filehippo...d_everest_home/

The PC is 5 – Years Old – Have you ever cleaned the dust out of it – Checked the – CPU Fan/Heat Sink Assembly – for excessive clogging of dust in the fins – CPU Fan should be blowing Air – Down into the Heat sink – And forcing air out the side fins – If clogged – Hot air is not exhausting properly – I can give you steps on cleaning -


– Cooling Notes –

(1) Verify that the – Fan – on Graphic’s Card – is Operating Correctly – It should be drawing Air up into the Card –
(2) It is good to leave the – Expansion Slot – Just below the – Graphic’s Card – Open – to allow breathing space for the Fan –
(3) Tie up Cabling – To keep a clear area around the Graphic’s Card - & thru out the Case to keep the – Air Turbulence at a minimum –
(4) Verify Proper Case Fan Operation – Front Fan/s should be drawing – Cool Air In - Rear Fan/s should be – Exhausting the Hot Air out – Side Fans should be Drawing Air In – but the Side Fans can be a source of – Air Turbulence around your Graphic’s Card – And can actually reduce the – Effective Cooling – Might want to reduce the RPM ?? -
(5) Rear Exhaust Fans should be the Larger Fans & it is better to add another –
(6) Front Fan/s should be the smaller Fans –
(7) Air should be drawn in at – Bottom Front of Case – and be free to pass thru – And Exhausted out the Top Rear – of the Case
(8) Power Supply should contain its own Fans – but they may be clogged or running slow -
(9) Try speeding up the Rear Exhaust Fan/s – Clean if clogged with dust –

How about Room Ambient Temp – [Hot?? – Cool??] – Can this be easily improved –

The best advice is – Keep PC Clean – And eliminate Air Turbulence –

Jack123

[EDIT – Added websites]
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro websites -

Specs –
http://ati.amd.com/p...0pro/specs.html

Overview –
http://ati.amd.com/p...0pro/index.html

Edited by Jack123, 15 February 2007 - 06:54 AM.

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#4
blindu

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Hey jack, thanks for the help.

i have had this problem since about november or possibly december, out of nowhere i started experiencing the mouse and keyboard lag in my coutner stirke game, and it seemed to get worse and worse each time.
i have had this video card installed for about 2 years, i bought it from a friend, but he got it and used it for a month, but then sold it to me because he wanted to get a 512 RAM vid card. i originally had a Nvidia geforce MX440, but i uninstalled everything from it and installed everything for the ATI. i never had any problems with it until now. i posted on the hijackthis part of the forums because i never had done a thorough clean up of my computer, but it would seem that my vid card started lagging after i done that, but i dont think they could be connected because i reformatted my hard drive on around january, so i dont know why it would be carried over. after i posted that i have made some changes to my specs, i added 1 GB of ram and took out the old 512. when i did that i cleaned the desktop out of all the dust. i do that sometimes, so my desktop tower isnt that dusty. so i have had the vid card for the past 2 years, and i never took it out to substitute it.

so some info on my comp
its a compaq presarie 8000
my mainboard is a compaq 07E8h with an Intel i845G chipset
soem sensor specs taht i got from everrest
Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type SMSC EMC6D100 (SMBus 2Eh)

Temperatures:
Motherboard 41 °C (106 °F)
Aux 43 °C (109 °F)

Voltage Values:
CPU Core 1.46 V
+3.3 V 3.25 V
+5 V 5.10 V
+12 V 11.75 V
Debug Info F FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
Debug Info T 00 28 2B 81
Debug Info V 00 7C BD C4 BC

upgrades form original buy, i just added a i1394 card, changed my old vid card to the 256 ati radeon 9800 pro and then upgraded to 1GB of ram. i have one hard drive on this comp a 60 GB one. the room temp here is at about 61, i think, idk, but its always cold here, but the unit is in a desk, one of those things that is in the bottom right of a desk and unfortunately it is covered to the sides and back, but i pull the unit out some more to give it room. if youd like i can take some pictures to make it easier to understand. so i have the main cooling fan that goes to teh power supply, one that is in the back of the unit, one that is on the processor and then one that is on the video card. those are the only ones, and i cleaned them out to the best of my ability about 2 weeks ago. thank you once again for helping me. i really appreciate it!

oh and to say the problem again, whenever i play graphic intensive games, like counter strike or bf2, my fps drop down really fast and then my mouse and keyboard lag and such.
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#5
Jack123

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02-blindu [ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256 RAM runs hot]-15th FEB-2007

when i did that i cleaned the desktop out of all the dust. i do that sometimes, so my desktop tower isnt that dusty. so i have had the vid card for the past 2 years, and i never took it out to substitute it.


Did you verify that – CPU Heatsink Assembly – was not clogged with dust ??

This would make CPU run – Hot – and over time – The CPU would be – Shutdown & Freeze Cursor on screen – You would have to – Restart PC-

You need to have room for the Tower – Exhaust the Hot Air & room to draw in cool air – Cannot block – Rear – Sides – or front of tower -

You need to run the temp Monitor – when you load up – Video Activity – to see temp – Heavy Activity –
Also measure Voltages as Video Activity increases – Also what is Fan RPM – High cooling should be running high – 3500 – 3800 RPM?? – Maybe FAN Speed Control – or Fan Bearing bad – Fanspeed may work better than Everest – Since Everest is not being supported/updated

Also – It appears as if Compaq does not support the Everest Program too well - Use Fanspeed to measure parameters – Post back results - All 3 parameters related with heat problems -
(1) Temps
(2) Fan Speeds
(3) Voltages

My expertise in this matter is in Hardware/Temp problem – but here are other reasons – Slow Performance –
See below -
___________________________________________________________________________

(1) File Clutter - Clean your – Temporary Internet Files –

Delete Internet Temporary Files using – Internet Options Folder -

(1) Click Start Button
(2) Highlight Settings and Click on Control Panel on Pop down Menu
(3) Open Internet Options Folder

(4) Click onGeneral Tab – on Top Menu Bar
(5) Click Delete Cookie Tab – Click OK Tab – On Delete All Cookies on Internet
(6) Click on Delete Files Tab – Check Delete all Offline content Box – Click OK
(7) Set Days to keep pages in history to [0] – Click Clear History Tab – Click Yes

(8) Click OK Tab on Bottom to Close Folder
_______________________________________________________________________

Now to save time – Place a Internet Options – Shortcut Icon on Desktop – by

(1) Click Start Button
(2) Highlight Settings and Click on Control Panel on Pop down Menu
(3) Right Click Internet Options Folder – Click on Create Shortcut
(4) Then click Yes to Place on Desktop
______________________________________________________________________

Then to Clean the – Temporary Internet Files

(1) Open – Shortcut to Internet Options Icon on Desktop
(2) Click onGeneral Tab – on Top Menu Bar
(3) Click Delete Cookie Tab – Click OK Tab – On Delete All Cookies on Internet
(4) Click on Delete Files Tab – Check Delete all Offline content Box – ClickOK
(5) Set Days to keep pages in history to [0] – Click Clear History Tab – Click Yes

(6) Click OK Tab on Bottom to Close Folder

NOTE -
If you use the Internet everyday for 5 years & Never Delete these Temporary Files – You can have – Tens of MB Files of clutter – Just Open this – Internet Options Folder & clean these files daily / weekly

_______________________________________________________________________

(2) – Antivirus

Also what Antivirus and/or Firewall are you using?? – Norton is a – Very Heavy System Resource User – It is not managed very well & its scanning process is always in the way –

If you are using Norton – Try turning it off – Temporarily while playing your game – If you see an improvement – Get another Antivirus -

Use only 1 Antivirus program running at one time -
_______________________________________________________________________

(3) – Try Posting in Games – for Keyboard & Mouse Problem
– The lag may be caused by – Active X control – see link -
http://www.lalena.co...ngProblems.aspx

OR -

See FAQ on Game Link – May have to download latest – Patch – or see Video website –

______________________________________________________________________

(4) – Malware ??

You may want to go back to Malware Forum – You did indicate that – PC ran much faster after Flrman1 was working with you –

okay done all of that. thanks man. i really appreciate it. take care of urself. the comps working really good now.

______________________________________________________________________

Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 15 February 2007 - 06:48 PM.

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#6
blindu

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Did you verify that – CPU Heatsink Assembly – was not clogged with dust ??


well when i do clean it, i take teh vaccum and i vaccum everything that i can think of, i dont know which one that is, is it the one fan that is parallel to the motherboard that has some walls(sry idk how to describe it) parts underneath it? i did clean that, i tried to take the fan off but it did not work out so well and i did not want to break it.

as for speed fan, its not working for me, it doesnt tell me the rpm's or the volatge, and i do not have the motherboard cd, so i dont know about the temp monitor. do you think motehrboard monitor might work? i know of that program from a friend, but it seems that many of the motherboard programs do not work with my motherboard for some reason, its like mine is part of the rejected series. sorry

i also clean out the temp internet files and i have spy doctor.

at the moment as im running the desktop, i took the left side wall off, so i can see the inside, im thinking that that might be able to cool it off slightly, but it doesnt seem so
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#7
Jack123

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03-blindu [ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256 RAM runs hot]-16th FEB-2007

i know of that program from a friend, but it seems that many of the motherboard programs do not work with my motherboard for some reason, its like mine is part of the rejected series. sorry


Yeah – Rejected Series – It is called – Compaq – Compaq is a – Proprietary Manufacturer – And most of these do not share/communicate well – with the Independent Utility Software Programmers/Vendors – The Programmer would discover – Motherboard Secrets –

If you have – Motherboard Monitor – I think Compaq participates – with this one –

If you have the side Open – Maybe you could – Position a small Fan – nearby & experiment. Just do not add/cause – Air Turbulence – Just see if you can improve on the direct cooling – See if you can improve with a small fan – maybe just an additional Small PC Fan that you can Power with – a Peripheral Female Power Connector – [Just temporarily for now to see if cooling can be made]

You indicated in 1st Post that the Video Card Fan seemed slow -

i also nopticed that the fan on the card barely dispenses air.


Jack123 -
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#8
blindu

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okay... the weiredst thing happened. i remembered that before i reformatted i used tuneXP to tweak my windows to work a little better. so i ddi this now, and i turned ona ll the features that i thoguht were neccessary, which are basically all of them, and it seemes to get rid of the problem. but, upon further inspection, while the comptuer was running, i took a flashlight and inspected the fans, and the power supply box is really dusty, but idk how to take that off to clean it, and then the heatsink, as you were right about, it really dusty but i cant seem to take the fan off it, but i will keep trying. and also another thing taht worries me, when i do play my games and such, all the fans dont seem to spin any faster, the CPU one actually seems to wobble at the center, but im not sure it its the fan or the sticker on it tahts off, but i will have to further investigate, and i will post back with the motherboard monitor results as soon as i can get them.
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#9
Spider-Man

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Hi there. I suspect that if your CPU fan is wobbling about it is probably damaged, making the air flow it pushes against the CPU heatsink is not fluent and therefore your CPU is probably overheating slightly, probably not enough to cause it to crash, but it will cut its life time short.
I advise you to add some case fans if your graphic card is overheating. Small fans should be placed at the front of the case pulling air in, and larger fans at the back pushing air out.
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#10
Jack123

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04-blindu [ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256 RAM runs hot]-17th FEB-2007

Ok – That is what I expected -

took a flashlight and inspected the fans, and the power supply box is really dusty, but idk how to take that off to clean it, and then the heatsink, as you were right about, it really dusty but i cant seem to take the fan off it,


How many fans on Power Supply – 2 I hope – Advice – on Cleaning Process for Power Supply -

(1) You will have to disconnect PC – All Cables & Line Cords to do a good Job
(2) Next you will have to position the Tower on a sturdy table
(3) Need to purchase 2 cans of – Compressed Air – Cleaning Duster – Make sure it is recommended for PC Use – Moisture & Residue Free – Non-Ozone depleting – Non Flammable – Static Free or minimal –
(4) READ THE INSTRUCTIONS – Keep Can Upright – Do not Shake – It is Compressed Air – When Compressed Air is turned upside down – It becomes – LIQUID – This is not good –
(5) The technique – is to move the PC around the Can – A little difficult – but trust me – Liquid can be more problem than dust –
(6) Inspect the Fans for broken blades – Bad bearings – Use small toothpick to keep Blades stationary – Start spraying into Power Supply – to blow the dust out – Recommend an outside or garage type area – Might want to use face mask – Move the case around so that you blow thru both fans – and keep can upright at all times –
(7) Try to use some of these dust clothes that dust clings to – to keep the dust from flying -
(8) It is not easy – Most Power Supplies – are up in rear inside corner & hard to work on – Depends on how much clearance – sometimes the motherboard has to be removed – before the Power Unit – This could be more work – than a total upgrade – If it has been several years – You should routinely blow out the dust every 3 months – Once you have it this bad – Every 3 Months is easy – It may take 2 cans just for the Power Unit –
(9) Just be aware – Dusting can be nasty work –

As far as the CPU – I have some advice for this – I will locate & post later – Generally the fan is easy to remove – except for some of the Newer ones of today – They can be huge Fans –

Maybe, you can take some digital pictures of Motherboard & CPU – and attach – Then I can use them & make an isometric drawing – showing fan removal process – cleaning instructions – Your photos would be better for you – than what I have – because the photos I have may be different –

The only thing – You will be – Offline – after you start this – Make sure you have a plan laid out – This will keep the delays down – and errors to a minimum – You need to be aware of what you are doing – be aware that it is very easy to knock/bump connections loose – there are a lot of single wire connections that are easily bumped loose – Just think of what you are doing and do not rush thru – Make sure you have files backed up before doing this – Just be prepared –

the CPU one actually seems to wobble at the center, but im not sure it its the fan or the sticker on it tahts off,


Maybe a candidate for Fan Replacement – Inspect Blades & Bearings – Usually does not cost much – Unless it is permanently attached ??- Heat Sink removal to clean – is not advised – not something advised for rookies –
This is something – that you should learn to put together 1st before taking apart/disassembling – Maybe try searching for – Cleaning CPU Fan – in Hardware Forum – You might see some of my Posts – or get more advice –
Jack123
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#11
Jack123

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05-blindu [ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256 RAM runs hot]-18th FEB-2007

Here is a Photo that may help – With Fan Removal – This Fan is pretty well clogged –How does it compare to your Fan??

PDF attachment has Fan Removal instructions -

Jack123 -

Fan Photo dmigg_Fan_5.jpg

Instructions - Attached File  01_Clean_CPU_FAN_Assembly_Process.pdf   160.55KB   104 downloads

Edited by Jack123, 05 March 2007 - 03:36 PM.

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#12
blindu

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DSC01422.JPG
as you can see i took some pics of the processor and the video card. i have more, so tell me if u want to see more. i havnt had teh time to go out and buy the can or a new fan, i want to make sure i get the right kind of fan, or maybe to check the integrity of this one. i noticed that all the fans on the computer when they are on, the air goes outwards, except the video one, it feels like the air is going into the processor or maybe its just so slow and tiny that i just dont feel it right. ill but the cans tomorow and then report back

DSC01416.JPG
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#13
Jack123

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06-blindu [ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256 RAM runs hot]-19th FEB-2007

Ok –Good photos-

The Box itself looks pretty clean – But the CPU Heat sink Assembly is pretty well stuffed & the Video Card Fan is showing lots of dust –

The CPU Fan should be blowing down into the Heat sink Assembly and forcing the Air out thru the side Fins – The theory is

(1) CPU is on the bottom with this large hunk of metal with fins on it is on top of the CPU
(2) The CPU is getting hot and has to dissipate the heat to this hunk of metal
(3) Heat rises and is heat up this metal – and escaping out the side – and continues to rise
(4) The CPU Fan is forcing colder Air down – Cold air naturally moves down
(5) The cold air is forcing the hot air out the side as it rises
(6) So having the Fan rotate in such a manner to aid the natural air flow will maximize the cooling
(7) The CPU is still going to remain Hot because it is the Source of the Heat – So a good heat transfer between the CPU and the heat sink is very important for quicker heat dissipation. So the faster you can exhaust the heat out the efficient the cooling
(8) So to aid this exhaust effort – The Rear fans/s should be the larger and near the top – Again because Heat rises – and the heat source is at the bottom where it naturally cooler – The idea is to take advantage of the physics laws –

Now for the Video Card Fan

(1) The Fan should also be forcing Air into the Video Card and forcing the Hot Air out the side Fins
(2) You need to keep the front of the Fan open for breathing room – Like you have – by keeping at least the 1st slot open. Looks like you may have 2 open – Plenty of Room
(3) Again the Hot air will be forced out the side and will rise towards the top rear of the case
(4) This is where your exhaust Fans should be – Top Rear of the Case
(5) The Power Supply usually occupies that spot
(6) The Power supply front fan should also be forcing the colder air into the Power Supply , and the rear Power Supply Fan should be Exhausting the Hot Air Out
(7) You should have a Case fan in the rear exhausting the hot air – This fan/s should be the larger of the Case fan

You see that you have louvers on the side to permit cool air in – You can add some intake fans in front. They should be smaller & run slower. They are only to aid the air movement – Not to force the air – The only force should be in the exhausting of Hot Air.

You want to minimize the Air Turbulence – Especially around the Video Card & CPU – Adding side input fans will tend to add to the turbulence and may cause hot pockets of air around the Video Card – What you are doing – is opening one side to allow a larger supply of cooler air to be available – which I think is better –

If you have two or more hard drives – Then one or two small front fans to create a small air flow across the drive Assembly to aid in keeping the drives cooler will aid – but they should be running slower to keep the Turbulence down –

You can also add a rear exhaust fan in the lower rear of the case – in one of the rear expansion slots – It can be smaller and run slower – it would be just to aid in a gentle air flow along the bottom

Your side behind the mother board seems to be collecting some dust in the louvers – That will retard the cooler air from entering – The CPU Fan is clogged pretty bad and the Video card is clogged also –

Remove the Video Card – Use a Tooth Pick to hold the Fan blades still – And blow the Compressed Air into the Fan to force clean the dust – Do this in an Open Area – The dust will choke you – There is more than you think – You want to remove the dust – Not just move it – but Remove

The CPU Fan has four corner screws that can be removed – Looks pretty much the same as my attachment – The main thing is to take your time & be careful – about knocking wire connections off or loose – And when removing hardware – be careful that you do not strip or burr up the screws – Do not over tighten – and tighten evenly – Do not force any connectors – If it is hard – it is probably not correct – Be careful when with the fan wiring – Do pinch under the case when installing – or catch any wires on the sharp corners – And do not puncture with the screw by screwing thru the wires – Do not drop any hardware into the heat sink – may fall in easy – but is hard to fish back out – Keep the compressed air upright – Turning the can down will cause the compressed air to become liquid – Another law of physics – You can break Man’s laws – but be respectful of the laws of physics – Tough Penalties –

Use your photos as a reference guide for reinstalling procedure – Make sure of Fan orientation – Mark a corner for reference – Any Computer store should have this compressed air -
Fan/cooling links
http://www.frostytec...m?articleID=473
http://www.endpcnois...Fans_Intel.html
http://www.pcmag.com...,2013289,00.asp
http://www.mittoni.c...fans-c-142.html

Good Luck
Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 18 February 2007 - 11:04 PM.

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#14
blindu

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okay sorry for the delay but i have been working on trying to get the fans and blowing the dust away and ive had school bugging me as well. tomorow i am going to get the heatsink. ive had soem problems trying to locate it because radioshack and best buy and compusa all dont have it.. even thought it says they do online. so i foudn this local store that has it, but they also have a bajillion sizes for it. and they all dont look like mine, but i dont think she shape of the heatsink matters. does it? oh and also the fan, on mine is latched on the heatsink. i can see that there are no screws in the holes on the fan. but when it is changed i will inform you guys. :-)
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#15
Jack123

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07-blindu [ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256 RAM runs hot]-24th FEB-2007

i dont think she shape of the heatsink matters. does it?

-

I do not recommend replacing the whole Heat-sink Assembly, unless necessary – You have a Compaq PC, and as I said earlier – This is a – Proprietary Mfg – You may not find an – exact fit – at any Local computer stores – The Fan should be able to locate. The Heat-sink assembly, you probably need to purchase from Compaq or from a Compaq certified dealer. If so – That is why you cannot find anything similar – Form & Fit is critical with the CPU – This Motherboard may not have – Standard Form & Fit – Components .

Another reason for not replacing the whole Assembly – There is more involved – You need to clean & apply – Thermal Paste – for proper heat transfer – between CPU & Heat-sink Assembly – You need to read more on this application & understand what you are getting into. It is not real difficult – But you do need to understand what you are doing –

The purpose of this paste is to smooth out the imperfections of two adjoining surfaces to utilize the entire square area of the adjoining surfaces, and not just the touching tips of the high points This will minimize the hotspots/points for more efficient heat transfer by increasing the actual touching area of the two surfaces. Too much paste is not good either – It could insulate more than transfer the heat.

The whole object is to efficiently transfer the heat from the source into a larger heat dissipating surface and then exhaust this dissipated heat, via of a fan, out of the smaller area/case into a larger ambient area/air space. It is all about understanding the Physics of energy & heat.

Here are some links to look at – Also suggest that you –[b[Browse the System Building & Upgrading Forum[/b] for tips more information.

CPU Replacement Instructions -
http://www.planetamd...?showtopic=9728

Thermal paste Management
http://www.amd.com/e...18448/18448.pdf

Ok- Now it looks as if the CPU Fan is secured by the – Green Clips – on the left side of the CPU. Looks like it is secured on the left side only. This may be the reason if the fan appears to be wobbly. I do not know if that is correct or if it is missing – Was there any loose green plastic pieces lying inside the case?

Because of the small confined area, it is easier to clean the heat-sink, with the fan removed. But if the fan is OK, and you cannot discover how to remove it – Just clean it the best that you can. You do not want to make it worse than it is -

Look at – Modified Photo - 02_CPU_FAN_ASSEMBLY.jpg

Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 24 February 2007 - 12:24 PM.

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