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Sari's grammar thread


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#256
DonnaB

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If your computer has become unstable, and unbootable because of malware. Or, if your pc won't boot after malware or virus removal, please use this forum.


Hm? You're right Amlak! That doesn't look right.

If your computer has become unstable, and unbootable because of malware, or if your pc won't boot after malware or virus removal, please use this forum.


That looks better. :happy:

Using a comma after a conjunction, which in the case above the conjunction is "and", is never wrong nor right and the ruling about when to use a comma before a conjunction in a list depends on whether you're following US or UK writing conventions.

The first sentence above ends dead at the word malware and should have a comma before the word "or", which is another conjunction that is used to merge the two sentences into one so it makes sense.

I'm certainly not an English teacher, but I had to take a whack at this! :lol:
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#257
sari

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Fixed. Refresh your site. :)
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#258
Amlak

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Much more grammatically pleasing to the eye now. :lol:
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#259
Amlak

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Mobile malware removal is in it's infancy. Until tools become available, this forum will mostly discuss threats, protection, bad apps, and experiences. Please share yours.

It's "its" not it's" :lol:

Sorry, sari. One more to fix.
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#260
Troy

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You're right, it's an incomplete sentence.

Edit: I'm wrong, there's now another page to this topic. :lol:
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#261
Amlak

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Spawning pages of discussion is in my nature. :ph34r:
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#262
sari

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Fixed. I also fixed an incomplete sentence in the Malware Forum description.
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#263
OGdexter

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If anybody is interested in improving their writing skills, in the sense of saying the most with the fewest words, and you are in College with room for an elective course in your schedule;

Legal Writing and Research was a great help to me in reducing wordiness.
Think about how writing and speaking for maximum effect is fundamental to the legal profession.
When I took this course, one exercise was to take a legal opinion and paraphrase it using fewer words while communicating the same information. I'm pretty sure the point of it was to demonstrate how well written the opinion was, There was very little that could have been improved.

Just a thought, This was one of those courses that sounded kinda boring on it's face, but turned out to be one I really liked. It has proven useful and I consider it time well spent.

Edited by OGdexter, 11 October 2012 - 10:40 AM.

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#264
RubiksHQ

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Just a question, is "team" plural or singular? For example if I was to write "The management team were", would that be correct? Or should it be was?
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#265
OGdexter

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with an adverb; the management team were here, with a noun; the management team was going home or they were going home.

for I and YOU pronouns...in rules of using is and are....singular nouns/pronouns normally follow the linking verb in singular form. However with I and YOU, even if they appear to be one person. I and YOU are exceptions. the proper grammar for it is:

"I" ---> the present tense for "were" is am. "were" is in the past form.
"YOU"---> the present tense for were is are.

You cannot say , " I are........." or "I is........" You is........" or You was..........." they always use the plural form of linking verbs.

That is the rule.........no matter what your construction sentences are.

but:

when you are using the simple past, you use 'was' for the 1st and 3rd persons singular, and you use 'were' for the other persons:
"I/He/She/It was here yesterday."
"We/You/They were here yesterday."

Now, in conditional sentences or in any other instances in which the subjunctive mood is needed, you can use 'was' for the 1st and 3rd persons singular in informal English:
"If I was you, I'd tell her."
"I wish he was older."
notice that:
"If I were you, I'd tell her"
and
"I wish he were older"
also sound correct, but in a more formal sense.

Now, in formal English, and mainly in writing, you use 'were' for all persons.
"I wish you were here."
"I wish he were here."

When it comes to the subjunctive, you have a choice, but remember "appropriateness". If you're applying for a job or writing an academic paper just to mention two examples the more formal your style, the better.

This is one reason why English is very difficult to learn as a second language, and frankly not simple to master as your first.

Edited by OGdexter, 14 October 2012 - 03:00 PM.

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#266
sari

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The word team is what's known as a collective noun; in other words, a group made up of individuals. Its use a plural or singular noun depends on how it's being used. If the team is acting as a unit, then it is singular. For example: The baseball team is practicing today. If, however, you're referring to actions being taken by the members of the team, not the team as a whole, then it becomes plural: After a hot practice, the team shower, change into their street clothes, and get in their cars to go home.
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#267
Wolfeymole

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After a hot practice, the team shower, change into their street clothes, and get in their cars to go home.


I would rephrase the above sentence to this..."After a hot practice, the team showered, changed into their street clothes and then got into their cars to go home.".
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#268
TooNew2

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If anybody is interested in improving their writing skills, in the sense of saying the most with the fewest words, and you are in College with room for an elective course in your schedule;

Legal Writing and Research was a great help to me in reducing wordiness.
Think about how writing and speaking for maximum effect is fundamental to the legal profession.
When I took this course, one exercise was to take a legal opinion and paraphrase it using fewer words while communicating the same information. I'm pretty sure the point of it was to demonstrate how well written the opinion was, There was very little that could have been improved.

Just a thought, This was one of those courses that sounded kinda boring on it's face, but turned out to be one I really liked. It has proven useful and I consider it time well spent.


I believe it should be "If anybody is interested in improving his writing..." because "anybody" is singular and "their" is plural so the two don't agree in number. For decades, this was the normal comvention; I don't disagree with using "her" if it fits the particular setting.

I think this was the first topic I addressed in this thread, long, long ago....


with an adverb; the management team were here, with a noun; the management team was going home or they were going home.

for I and YOU pronouns...in rules of using is and are....singular nouns/pronouns normally follow the linking verb in singular form. However with I and YOU, even if they appear to be one person. I and YOU are exceptions. the proper grammar for it is:

"I" ---> the present tense for "were" is am. "were" is in the past form.
"YOU"---> the present tense for were is are.

You cannot say , " I are........." or "I is........" You is........" or You was..........." they always use the plural form of linking verbs.

That is the rule.........no matter what your construction sentences are.

but:

when you are using the simple past, you use 'was' for the 1st and 3rd persons singular, and you use 'were' for the other persons:
"I/He/She/It was here yesterday."
"We/You/They were here yesterday."

Now, in conditional sentences or in any other instances in which the subjunctive mood is needed, you can use 'was' for the 1st and 3rd persons singular in informal English:
"If I was you, I'd tell her."
"I wish he was older."
notice that:
"If I were you, I'd tell her"
and
"I wish he were older"
also sound correct, but in a more formal sense.

Now, in formal English, and mainly in writing, you use 'were' for all persons.
"I wish you were here."
"I wish he were here."

When it comes to the subjunctive, you have a choice, but remember "appropriateness". If you're applying for a job or writing an academic paper just to mention two examples the more formal your style, the better.

This is one reason why English is very difficult to learn as a second language, and frankly not simple to master as your first.

I'm old school and think the subjunctive requires "were" in both cases above; yes, we have choices but they are in doing it right, or doing it wrong. Most people, many teachers included, just don't know the proper way, as is true with so many other aspects of our language.


The word team is what's known as a collective noun; in other words, a group made up of individuals. Its use a plural or singular noun depends on how it's being used. If the team is acting as a unit, then it is singular. For example: The baseball team is practicing today. If, however, you're referring to actions being taken by the members of the team, not the team as a whole, then it becomes plural: After a hot practice, the team shower, change into their street clothes, and get in their cars to go home.

It can also be considered that the word "members" is understood: "the team members shower..."


After a hot practice, the team shower, change into their street clothes, and get in their cars to go home.


I would rephrase the above sentence to this..."After a hot practice, the team showered, changed into their street clothes and then got into their cars to go home.".


Sari's sentence was more a general statement about the team's usual and current practice while yours seems to reference its past practice or perhaps one specific past occasion.
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#269
Wolfeymole

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After a hot practice, the team shower, change into their street clothes, and get in their cars to go home.


The above sentence by Sari infers by its grammatical content that the team changed into their clothes while still wet even with the addition of a comma.

Replacing the word shower with showered quite clearly states an action that has now past.
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#270
sari

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Actually, the correct word would be implies, not infers. Generally accepted usage of the two words states that if you infer something, you draw a meaning or conclusion from something that is said, while if you imply something, you are suggesting a meaning or conclusion. That being said, if you change the tense of the word showered, you have to change the tenses of the other verbs in the sentence as well.

After a hot practice, the team showered, change into their street clothes, and get in their cars to go home.

That is not correct, If you change shower to showered, then the sentence should read:

After a hot practice, the team showered, changed into their street clothes, and got in their cars to go home.


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