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DX10 - Vista or XP64?


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#1
SpaceCowboy706

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Im kind of gray in this area ... I am ordering the parts for a new system on this coming monday and i want to make sure im not going to encounter problems. The 2 SLI video cards im using are DX10 and i was planning on using XP64 (was told i needed xp64 for windows to register memory more than 2GB), but i have read in a couple places that you must use Vista for DX10 cards.... Is this true do i need to go to Vista?
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#2
kidnova

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Yes, and no. DX10 will not run under XP, it requires Vista. However, all DX10 cards support DX9 and so do all of the games that are currently on the market. If you already have a copy of XP64 then you will be fine to use it with your DX10 cards, but you will be running in DX9 mode. Currently DX10 performance has been a bit underwhelming, but if you want to future-proof, then you can always upgrade to Vista at a later date.

Oh, and for future reference, XP32 and Vista32 will recognize up to 4GB of RAM, not two. The 64 bit versions will recognize up to 8GB.

Edited by kidnova, 27 November 2007 - 11:28 AM.

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#3
kamille316

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Isn't it ~3-3.5GB of RAM for 32 bit OS and then 4GB+ for 64 bit OS?
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#4
SOORENA

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Isn't it ~3-3.5GB of RAM for 32 bit OS and then 4GB+ for 64 bit OS?


Yes that is correct. Also I don't recommend you do SLI unless you are buying two really great cards that have no superiors for example like the 8800 series, because SLI only give so little performance around 20% while you are paying for 100%. I would suggest buying one good graphic card.

Soorena

Edited by SOORENA, 27 November 2007 - 11:54 AM.

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#5
kidnova

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Not to nitpick, but 32 bit Windows does support 4 GB of RAM, it's a mapping issue. Here is the explanation:

Myth - "Windows XP does not support 4GB of RAM"

Reality - "On any 32-bit Operating System (not only Windows), you only have access to 4GB of address space by default. A 32-bit Operating System can actually handle 4GB of memory. The issue is the way in which the hardware allocates memory for its own resources. The hardware needs to allocate memory space to use for things like the PCI bus, BIOS, the video card and others. It allocates this from the address space presented to it, which is not necessarily the same as the amount of physical RAM installed. Also of note, it allocates this memory from top to bottom. The problem is, when you have 4GB of RAM installed, the amount of physical memory installed is the same as the address space. If you have 4GB RAM, and the hardware needs to allocate a large chunk of memory for its own use, and it does this from top to bottom, the memory that is blocked off starts at 4GB and allocates downwards. So, the final amount of RAM the OS will be able to see is the difference. This is because when it actually allocates for the physical RAM in the system, it has to skip the chunk that was blocked off by the hardware. Since a 32-bit OS can only see 4GB, the rest of the RAM is invisible because it is above the 4GB barrier. By using the /PAE switch, you enable the OS to see above this barrier, and you can see all of your RAM, sometimes. The real problem comes back to hardware. The OS can only handle whatever resources are shown to it by the hardware BIOS. If the hardware does not support a large enough addressing range, then it simply won't report anything above that so the OS is in the dark. If the hardware supports 36-bit PAE Intel Extensions or the AMD equivalent, and you use an OS that supports PAE, you should be able to enable both and see all of the RAM."

As far as the maximum for 64 bit, I was wrong on the 8GB limit, it's actually quite a bit higher than that, but it obviously does recognize more than the 32 bit version.
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#6
james_8970

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64 bit operating systems are much higher then 8GB, to be exact it's 2^64bytes.
Similarly, a 32 bit operating system can support up to 2^32bytes.
However, once various things such as the VRAM and peripherals are taken into account, you will only have ~3.3GB of system memory.
Cowboy, if you can wait, the new 8800GTS is coming out December 11th, which will have an updated core (G92), it'll run cooler, consum less energy and should theoretically be more powerful then the 8800GTX and on par with the 8800Ultra, but at a much lower price point.
James
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#7
SpaceCowboy706

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Im getting confused on what OS i actually need... So here are the specs on the parts i am ordering:

Motherboard (chose 590 SLI so i could use the full PCIx16 for 2 video cards and not just PCIx8 on both video cards)
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131011
*NOTE* I have full intentions of getting two better SLI video cards in about 6 to 8 months, but my budget right now is only 1100$ and im currewntly at 1104.99 with this setup.

Processor
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103773

RAM
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820145177

Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822148262

Video Card (2 - with SLI)
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127306

Power Supply
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817153036

CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835887002

Case Fans
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835185060

-----1------
For now Im only going to be using 2gb of ram and (2) DX10 128-bit 8600GT's with SLI, but later i plan to upgrade to 4gb of ram(couple months out)... and (2) DX10 type 8800GT SLI cards. I dont want to have to reinstall a new OS and everything else at a later time so what OS should i use off the start.

-----2-----
On the "(2) DX10 128-bit 8600GT's with SLI" if you can link me a card that will outperform these two for the same price... please do so... $220.
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#8
kidnova

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If you want DX10 and you don't want to reinstall an OS later, then you have to go with Vista.

Also, I would go with this graphics card, which performs on par with the 8800GTS and will probably outperform your 2X8600 setup. You will also be able to buy another one at a later date to run in SLI as opposed to buying 2 new 8800 GTX later:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814150252
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#9
james_8970

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First thing to do would be to get one single card, instead of two lower end cards.
A HD3870 would probably be your best bet, you could get a 8800GT if you want to spend a little more money. Though the HD3870 is currently the better card, especially for the price.
Go with Vista, XP doesn't even support DX10. Every game is "downgraded" to DX9.
Unless you have already purchased that board, I highly suggest you buy a Intel setup.
James

Edited by james_8970, 27 November 2007 - 01:44 PM.

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#10
SpaceCowboy706

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Kidnova...
see that card is 50$ more than these two... i can find better cards all day long that cost more, but a 1100$ budget is what i have and 220$ is the maximum i can spend on the video card. Thats why im hung on these two cards for now :)

James...
I would love to have Intel but the budget is holding me back from going that route... intel is more costly than AMD.

Edited by SpaceCowboy706, 27 November 2007 - 01:47 PM.

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#11
james_8970

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A single HD3870 or 8800GT will outperform two 8600GTS's in SLI.
The HD2400-HD2600 and 8400-8600 series cards are terrible performers for gaming and should only be used for HTPC's.
In the world of SLI, 1+1 doesn't equal 2
1+1 roughly equals 1.2
James

Edit: You also missed my post, I'd recommend purchasing and overclocking the HD3870.

Edited by james_8970, 27 November 2007 - 01:49 PM.

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#12
kidnova

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I concur 100% with James. You'd be better off ordering everything else now and waiting until you can afford the better graphics card then buying those two cards now and replacing them with 2 new cards later.
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#13
james_8970

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Here is just a single link, it should be enough to convince you not to buy the 8600GTS's, at higher resoluation we are talking about as much as a 100% difference between these two cards.
http://www.legionhar....php?id=704&p=4
Please note the 8600GTS is competing against the HD3850, both of these cards are the same price.
The HD3870 is a superior card to the HD3850.
James

Edited by james_8970, 27 November 2007 - 01:54 PM.

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#14
SpaceCowboy706

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OK i looked at the HD3870 and it is priced a little lower than the others you said were bad for gaming (all i do with this pc) and its a ATI card so should i then just abandon the 590SLI type motherboard and go with something else? isnt the ATI equivalent crossfire or something?

Im pretty much trying to get the most bang for buck and 1100$ is the budget i have.. for a gaming machine...

Should i start over on this list and build it around the same processor and the HD3870 card?
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#15
james_8970

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I'd go with a Intel CPU and a P35 board, the motherboard you suggested is a way over priced.
Keep in mind the P35 is limited to x16 and x4 in crossfire (yes this is the equivalent of nVidia's SLI). You could buy a x38 board (it has dual x16 slots, but for what it offers, it isn't worth it).
James

Edited by james_8970, 27 November 2007 - 02:28 PM.

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