[Ax238]

PC World - Opera Files Antitrust Suit Against Microsoft

Opera Software has filed an antitrust suit against Microsoft in the European Union, accusing it of stifling competition by tying its Internet Explorer Web browser to Windows, the Norwegian company said Thursday.

The complaint, which was filed with the European Commission on Wednesday, says Microsoft is abusing its dominant position in the desktop PC market by offering only Internet Explorer as a standard part of Windows, and hindering interoperability by not following accepted standards with IE.

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Pretty sure they already got sued for that. Opera should try to come up with something new.

[ScHwErV]

Pretty sure they already got sued for that. Opera should try to come up with something new.

[Ax238]

Yes, I remember this happening a while back in United States v. Microsoft, but at least there are companies out there willing to stand up against monopolies. Also, this is in the EU and between two companies, different playing field.

[ScHwErV]

Actually, if memory serves, the last one was in EU. The one in America was a long time ago.

[ScHwErV]

Also, and I know this isn't the debate forum, but in the spirit of some good hearty discussion, I'll try here.

I don't see this as one company willing to stand up against a monopoly. I see this as a short kid complaining to a coach because a taller kid gets to play more on a basketball court.

Windows is Microsoft software, so is IE, if they want to package them together, thats their right, its their software. Just like we have the right not to buy it if we so choose.

MS does not make it impossible to install Opera beside IE, it doesn't auto-recognize Opera ads and block them. Its fair so long as MS doesn't do anything to keep Opera from installing or advertising.

My car comes with a radio already installed. Can I sue Chevy because I would rather have a Clarion radio? No, I go out and install the radio I want. Its called free will.

Don't complain because someone has an advantage over you, do something to make yourself stand out and get noticed. Firefox did it, why cant Opera?

To be honest, this makes me dislike Opera even more than I did before.

[admin]

I have to agree. Where do you spend the majority of your time? I know I spend most of my time on the computer in the browser. In my opinion it would be foolish not to include one with the operating system. Especially, with the advances Microsoft made with IE7 in Vista. It has protected mode, loads fast, and I think could be easily argued that it is now faster and safer than FireFox. The reason I still use FireFox is for the awesome add-ons.

As ScHwErV said, Opera is a nice browser, but they haven't introduced a compelling reason for people to switch.

[Ax238]

The one in America is the one I'm talking about, as it is the most relevant. You do bring up some good points, which is why I like bringing these types of things to the table. But if the skilled short kid wants to bring up discussion on leveling the playing field so that the coach doesn't always put in the clumsy tall kid, why not allow him to?

I don't agree with you on Opera not standing out. Opera is just about the most innovative browser out there. Opera natively sports an RSS Feed Manager, Chat and Email client, BitTorrent Support, Mouse Gestures, Voice Control, Speed Dial, and others. It is also one of the most highly customizable browsers available.

Here's a list of some Opera Firsts:
1994 - Tabbed browsing and RAM page caching
1996 - Zoom and Sessions
1998 - Bookmark "nicknames" and user-defined CSS
2000 - Clear private data, mouse gestures, integrated search, and popup blocker
2002 - Small screen rendering
2003 - Fast Forward and Spatial Navigation
2005 - Fit to window width, Voice navigation, User Javascript, Browser Javascript (for fixing page javascript errors)
2006 - BitTorrent support and Widgets
2007 - Speed Dial

Don't hate the short kid, it's not nice.

[ScHwErV]

Also, is Opera going to sue Apple because it ships Safari with its OS? How about the linux distros that ship various browsers with their standard software?

[admin]

One place Opera has an advantage is mobile browsers. I use Opera Mini on my phone and it's awesome. Maybe they can translate some of those users to their desktop. Opera's biggest mistake in my opinion was sticking with the paid model way too long.

[Ax238]

Agreed admin, but it's free now! To add, I see no compelling reason people should stay with Internet Explorer other than its convenience and the fact that it goes by its own standard, causing many developers to write code for it only. Internet Explorer has copied most of its nice features from other browsers, and I'm sure it will continue doing so in the future.

[admin]

I see no compelling reason people should stay with Internet Explorer...

First load is much faster than FireFox or Opera. It's more secure.

IE7 is not standards compliant, but it's getting there. Microsoft has seen the light, and IE8 will continue to improve. Ever try coding a page for the iPhone? It's like IE4 all over again. Yet, I doubt there will be much outcry.

[ScHwErV]

I think the word "standards" is mostly useless at this point. If almost no one follows it, then its not a standard, its an option or maybe a suggestion. Even if it is from an "authority". Also, no one but techies and web designers care about standards. Saying that Opera meets standards to the general public is meaningless. You can tell people until you are blue in the face that standards are better, but so long as their websites display fine in IE, they don't care that it doesn't meet standards.

Opera may have some advances that they did first, but most of them, the general public could care less about. Many of them, while they may be new to browsers, are old ideas and most people who would use them have their own favorites already, so why switch to Opera?

Example. RSS readers were around long before Opera integrated an RSS feeder into their browser. Same with chat clients, email clients and torrents.

One program that does everything is not always the best solution. To most people, its more confusing that way.

Its not that they haven't made advances, its that they haven't made new advancements that really change the browsing experience for the normal user. Sure its the first browser to do something, but who cares when there are already 500 free programs that do that and have been doing that for a long time?

Opera missed the boat and the rush because they had the ad-supported version and the paid version when Firefox was free. Because FF was always free, more people opted for it, it has more support and a larger community, and because of all that, Opera is seen as a FF/NS knockoff.

Now that they are finally free, they need to do something that the general public will notice and they have to do it better than everyone else. Right now, they don't.

[Ax238]

First load is much faster than FireFox or Opera.

This is true on a Mac.

Browser speed comparisons (Windows)

It's more secure.

Isn't saying the most popular web browser is the most secure a contradiction? I believe Windows is more popular than Linux, but I know you can run Linux without an antivirus program. Why is that? Because not many people write viruses for Linux. The same is true with Opera.

If we go by Secunia's advisories, IE7 has seven unpatched vulnerabilities, Firefox has five unpatched vulnerabilities, and Opera has zero unpatched vulnerabilities.

[admin]

I'll give you those two.

I was thinking more of FireFox when typing my reply. On my system FireFox loads noticebly slower than IE7, and it's track record lately regarding security is not good. However, I don't put much weight in Secunia's unpatched vulnerabilites.

I don't think anyone will argue that Opera is not a nice browser. Two of the people here that I respect the most are Opera users, and big fans of it. IE7 is bundled with Windows. FireFox was the first free alternative with great community support. Outside of geeks like ourselves, Opera has yet to carve out a niche for itself. Suing Microsoft isn't going to do it. They'd be better served putting their energies to better use.

[admin]

Related article from Mary Jo Foley: http://blogs.zdnet.c...crosoft/?p=1042