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Windows Defender and Spybot S&D simultaneously?


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#16
mintchip

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Wow Skeptic, you really are a "skeptic". :) I've never been sure exactly how SpywareBlaster works, but I don't mind that it never notifies me as long as it's working. I only know this - I have never had one single piece of spyware or adware on my computer since installing it....absolutely nothing. Even my scans became a waste of time. They never found anything. Before that, they were always finding some little bug. That may be just a coincidence, but the odds have convinced me to keep it. Before I installed it, I contracted a really nasty, destructive type of adware that even knocked out one of my programs completely. Neither Norton or my spyware scanners could get rid of it. It was a complex problem to solve. SpywareBlaster doesn't pull any resources and I have noticed a change since installing it...again, maybe just coincidence? Maybe someone else can explain how it works, or if it actually does.

Most experts think it's important to block outbound traffic. I'm still not knowledgeable enough to understand it. I wish someone could explain exactly what the risk is, since I still don't get it. :) I'm also temporarily running the Windows firewall, but feeling naked with that as well.

Thanks for the input on Spyware Terminator. That is frightening. Have they solved that problem? I'm not sure I will try it now.

Peter Mac, Spyware Doctor has a really good reputation, but the free version is stripped down and I think it can only be downloaded with Google Pack. It appears that you can uncheck all the things in the pack you don't want, and just get Spyware Doctor, as long that works and they don't install a bunch of stuff you don't want with it. Here is a link with that option: Google Pack selector

Edited by mintchip, 31 January 2008 - 12:44 PM.

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#17
Peter Mac

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I've read that Spyware Blaster isn't supposed to find anything--it is a shield only. I read you're supposed to install it as the very first thing you do. Then it blocks anything nasty spybot wise from ever getting in. So you'll never see it working--it works silently in the background.

I've been thinking about using Windows Defender instead of Spybot search and destroy because of its tight integration with MS Apps.
Let's face it--if you use WIndows you have to use IE for outlook HTML and other apps--it's just too far integrated.

I read once that Windows Defender and Spybot S&D conflict with each other. You guys don't seem to think so.

I will try using Avast.
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#18
The Skeptic

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Hi mintchip.

Yes, a skeptic I am, and every one that dealt we with professionally, including some professors in the university, learned that nothing and no one is taken for granted.

This is one of the threads I love most; sharing knowledge and experience without having a specific problem to solve..

Regarding Spyware Blaster and Spyware Terminator; I had lots of expectations from them because I feel that what I am really missing is a real time anti spyware program. I look for a program that is free and doesn't slow your computer badly. These two showed a lot of promise.

Regarding SB, I just can't stand situations in which claimed results can't be verified. It doesn't bother me how it works but I have yet to see a single test that could confirm the claims and show measurable results. Being as skeptic as I am, only empirical results matter to me (as far as computers, technology and science go). Show me results and I will reinstall it real quick.

Spyware Terminator was exactly what I looked for. I used it happilly and recommended it in a thread in G2G. The poor guy installed the program and in no time was back with a formatted computer and lots of complaints. I didn't know what he was talking about until I started researching and found that he was right. As we discuss the subject now It really brings my intterst back and I'll Research ST option once more. Maybe they solved the problem.

Regarding firewall, antivirus and outbounf trafficf; that slows the computer and I honestly don't understand why I should bother about this. If the receipient of my mail doesn't have a good protection he deserves anything that he gets.
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#19
mintchip

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I've read that Spyware Blaster isn't supposed to find anything--it is a shield only. I read you're supposed to install it as the very first thing you do. Then it blocks anything nasty spybot wise from ever getting in. So you'll never see it working--it works silently in the background.

Yes, that's exactly right. It works silently as a "preventative". I think the mystery is by what mechanism it works....it's a curiosity. For one thing, I know that it has something to do with controlling settings.

I read once that Windows Defender and Spybot S&D conflict with each other. You guys don't seem to think so.

I will try using Avast.

As I'm sure you know, one of the advantages of Windows Defender as opposed to Spybot (unless you use Tea Timer) is that it works in real time, but it doesn't have the greatest track record. If there would be any conflict between them, I assume it would only be if you use Tea Timer. If you're going to try Avast, keep in mind that hfcg said Tea Timer conflicted with it. I'm personally no longer as thrilled with Spybot as I was once upon a time, but that's just me.


Hi mintchip.

Yes, a skeptic I am, and every one that dealt we with professionally, including some professors in the university, learned that nothing and no one is taken for granted.

I have those tendencies myself. :)

This is one of the threads I love most; sharing knowledge and experience without having a specific problem to solve.

I couldn't agree more. These types of thread are always the most interesting and fun..

Regarding SB, I just can't stand situations in which claimed results can't be verified. It doesn't bother me how it works but I have yet to see a single test that could confirm the claims and show measurable results. Being as skeptic as I am, only empirical results matter to me (as far as computers, technology and science go). Show me results and I will reinstall it real quick.

I can't argue with your logic. I think for me, I just decided that I had personal evidence, and since there was not a single drawback to running it, that sealed it for me. On the other hand, if it had been pulling resources or something, then I might think differently about it.

As we discuss the subject now It really brings my intterst back and I'll Research ST option once more. Maybe they solved the problem.

Please let us know what you find out. I'm extremely interested in knowing. :)
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#20
Peter Mac

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As I'm sure you know, one of the advantages of Windows Defender as opposed to Spybot (unless you use Tea Timer) is that it works in real time, but it doesn't have the greatest track record. If there would be any conflict between them, I assume it would only be if you use Tea Timer. If you're going to try Avast, keep in mind that hfcg said Tea Timer conflicted with it. I'm personally no longer as thrilled with Spybot as I was once upon a time, but that's just me.

funny you mentioned that. I was just about to write that Avast has a "resident protection" task name built into it. I just saw it.
I feel there is a strong possibility that Tea Timer, Avast, and Windows Defender all conflict with each other. THey are all resident protectors.

SOOOOOOOO....should I just go with Avast for anti virus, resident protection, and the works and forget about S&D and Windows Defender?
Are you guys that confident in Avast?

Edited by Peter Mac, 31 January 2008 - 07:20 PM.

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#21
tallin

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Interesting thread to see how others manage their Maintenance Program.

I use the following randomly, none are in Start Up and all manual in Services except of course AVG 7.5.

Windows Defender I found useless, did not find a thing in the time I had it installed.

Ad-Aware SE Personal no longer updates it's definitions automatically so I uninstalled it.
__________

Preventative Maintenance program to avoid Hyjackthis log sending

The following is my suggestion only. As it is very successful for me I thought I would share it.

Definitions of all installations must be kept up to date at least weekly if not daily.

Please follow the advice given here to avoid having your computer attacked by Malware and in turn to avoid asking for volunteer expert help to Analise your logs.

Firstly you need a Fire alarm - Zone Alarm Free. http://filehippo.com...zonealarm_free/

Download and install the following program.

One Antivirus software program only as more than one will conflict.
AVG Free http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/

Online Free Malware scan cleaning utility
http://www.johannrai...r-8-English.htm

Several Antispyware programs run manually, randomly, and not enabled at Startup.

AVG Antispyware Free http://free.grisoft....pyware/us/frt/0
SuperAntispyware Free Edition http://www.superantispyware.com/
Spyware blaster http://www.javacools...sbdownload.html
Spyware Search and Destroy http://www.softpedia...h-Destroy.shtml
CW Shredder http://www.intermute...r_download.html
AVG Rootkit free http://www.softpedia...load-48738.html
A_squared free http://www.brotherso.../a_squared.html
Spyware Guard free http://www.javacools...ywareguard.html

Temporary Internet File Cleaners and other Cleanup Utilities.
Here are three I suggest for you to choose from, however please choose only one.

Cleanup 4.5.2 http://www.stevengou...o...8&Itemid=70
CCleaner http://filehippo.com...nload_ccleaner/
ATF Cleaner by Atribune http://www.atribune....tent/view/19/2/
Also go to start >settings >accessories >systemtools >diskcleanup and follow the prompts.

Defragging Utilities

Defragmenter Analyser . http://www.raxco.com/analyze/
Use the Windows default defragmenter program this way: start> allprograms >accessories > systemtools> defragmenter.

OR

IObit Smart Defragmenter http://www.majorgeek...ad.php?det=5318
Auslogics degragmenter Free http://www.auslogics...defrag/download

1) 'Scan' for Adware, Spyware and all Malware WEEKLY/DAILY.
2) 'Clean your 'Temporary Internet files' and 'History list' every 3 Days.
3) 'Clear your 'SSL state 'every 3 Days.
4) 'Clear your 'Java files' in your Java console every 3 Days
5) 'Empty the 'Recycle bin' every 3 Days.
6) 'Defrag' your hard Drive every 5 Days. (I actually analyse mine and only defrag when necessary)
7) 'Scan' for Viruses and Trojans every 4 Days.
8) 'Degauss' your monitor by turning it off completely and back on, every 5 days
9) 'Completely turn off' your machine every 5 Days. This is different than re-starting.
~~When you re-start, it does not shut down 100%~~

Now I suggest you open "control panel" and then "Internet options." With the 'internet options' open, you will see the general tab. Next click on the "content" tab. You will see "clear SSL state." This normally is performed automatically but I have come across old data left in here. While you are here, you should clean the "auto complete" as well. There is a lot of data stored here that can breach your security and privacy. It is best to uncheck all the three boxes and never use this feature, however if you like this feature, keep it.
To just clean the stored data, click the "auto complete" button and then the "clean passwords" and then OK and then the "clear forms" and then OK. It will wipe all of the stored information.

Now let's move on to the Java files. Open "control panel>settings and find "java plug-in" and click
on temporary internet files>settings>delete files>enable Applications and Applets, and Trace and Log file> okay.

Now while we have it opened, let's adjust the size from 'unlimited' down to "maximum 4 MB" and you
will be ready to go.

Another item that seems to get overlooked on today's maintenance routine is the "C:\windows\temp" folder. You should delete everything that is in this folder, BUT not the folder itself. If you have never done this, it will have a ton of stuff in it.
So run your disk cleanup, defrag, delete cookies etc often. There are other variations of these utilities
available although I have yet to find a problem with the ones that Windows provides.

To flush DNS cache click start, run, type cmd, and type ipconfig /flushdns and press enter. (Note the space between the g /)

DNS = Domain Name Server, the cache referred to is where Windows stores all IP addresses it collects as you surf typing the IP to the domain name to surf to, this cache can grow large over a period of time causing a slowdown on your computer surfing and interaction.

I am indebted to other members/friends over time for some of this data, especially Crow and Doug who helped me so much.

I hope the above is of some help and if followed particularly by new members may alleviate the necessity of posting a HJT log.
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#22
Peter Mac

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It truly is ridiculous we have to go through all that every week.
Maybe it's time to get a Mac :)

I am really good with Unix and I've decided I'm definitely not upgrading to Vista.
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#23
Peter Mac

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Tallin,

I'm kind of leaning towards Avast right now for a few reasons:
1. It has advanced virus scanning
2. It virus scans at boot up before Windows loads
3. It has a built in resident shield (possibly eliminating the need for Tea Timer or Windows Defender)


Avast seems to be a resident shield and anti virus package in one. I've never used it so that's why I'm asking for feedback on its quality.
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#24
tallin

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Tallin,
I'm kind of leaning towards Avast right now for a few reasons:
1. It has advanced virus scanning
2. It virus scans at boot up before Windows loads
3. It has a built in resident shield (possibly eliminating the need for Tea Timer or Windows Defender)

Avast seems to be a resident shield and anti virus package in one. I've never used it so that's why I'm asking for feedback on its quality.

It truly is ridiculous we have to go through all that every week.
Maybe it's time to get a Mac

I am really good with Unix and I've decided I'm definitely not upgrading to Vista.


Hi Peter,

Well, once you get used to it, it only takes minutes, but it is your choice always.

Re Vista, I am with you, would not dream of upgrading from XP/SP2. :) Will cling to XP as long as it is supported.......

Sorry, as you can see in my maintenance post I do not have Avast so cannot comment on it. I like AVG and it has served me well for years.

I have Tea Timer disabled as it is a resource hog.......still have no problems with Spyware.

kind regards,
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#25
Peter Mac

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Do you think Zone alarm does anything special that MCAfee and others do not?

It would be nice to have one product that:
1. Is a firewall
2. Is a resident protector (like tea timer, windows defender)
3. Is a java active x malicious tool blocker (like spyware blaster)
4. Is an anti virus

It would be nice if one company could make all this. Sounds like a great opportunity for someone.

If I had the resources I would purchase the rights to Spyware blaster and a few other great apps and merge them into a killer product for virus/firewall/anti spyware. I think end users would be thrilled to have one app to handle it all.
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#26
tallin

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Peter, I like Zone Alarm Free, and again it has served me well.

I cannot technically explain why one is better than the other. My rule of thumb is if a program lets me down even once it goes to God. So far unless they are completely useless they stay as in my maintenance post sent earlier.

Yes, your idea about one for all is great, perhaps we will both live long enough to see that................. Posted Image
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#27
Peter Mac

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I installed Avast and have been running it for a while.

Avast has found two generic adware files it identified as viruses on my clean hard drive. I installed Windows and the Application CD that came with the Dell computer.

Is this software package doing a little bit of overkill and identifying potentially safe apps as generic adware??
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#28
tallin

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Peter,

What Antivirus program were you using before you installed Avast? Whatever it was did it show clean before Avast ran today and showed

two generic adware files


Best regards,
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#29
mintchip

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Tallin, I think he's saying that he just reinstalled Windows, so it's fresh and clean.

Peter, did you briefly go on the internet without protection after the fresh install to get Avast? Maybe something got in then...just a thought. I'm running on the same 4 year old Windows install, and Avast hasn't found anything on my system, so it seems to be working perfectly appropriately. Another thought (I'm just grasping at straws here)...have you got all your Windows updates? You will have lots of updating top do if you just reinstalled. Did you install Windows with SP2? If the answer to any of that is no, then possibly Avast is finding irregularities because of that.
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#30
mintchip

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I spoke too soon. I just did another scan and came up with a trojan called Win32:Zorro [Trj] in the downloaded program files - cpcScan.dll. Avast is still new to me. I've only been running it for about a week. Peter, do not remove the files that Avast shows are infections (as I'm sure you won't). Have you done a search to find out what they are or can you post them on this site and ask? I'm really curious what Avast is detecting. It appears that the trojan it detected on my system is associated with the Crucial website, where I was told by one of the helpers here to get a scan of my RAM. That should be perfectly safe, but I have this thing in the chest in Avast until I know more. The name "Zorro" has me a bit paranoid. If I have become infected, then I'm definitely not impressed with my new setup after being clean for 4 years with my old setup, and then becoming infected after only a week with this one.

Edit: I was only able to find a small amount of info about this. Apparently Zorro/Crucial is a false positive that was given by some other well-respected anti-virus programs a couple of years ago and they fixed it, but I found nothing about Avast, who seems to be a bit behind. So, the conclusion is that Avast may give some false positives Peter. The strange thing is that this is not the first virus scan I've done since doing the Crucial scan, but this is the only one that detected any infections.

Edited by mintchip, 01 February 2008 - 04:15 AM.

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