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Windows 7 - fresh install, but lockups and crashes


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#1
Jack W-H

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Hello,

I successfully installed Windows 7 64-bit RC today. However, I have a problem.

Running Windows, win7 will randomly lock up and completely freeze permanently at random points during opertion. So far I have not been able to run Windows for more than about 20 minutes without it locking up.

Il assume this is a hardware problem, since it is a clean install.

Specs:
4GB Ram
80GB HDD
Intel Pentium 4 640 (3.2 GHz)
NVidia Geforce 7900

If there's anything else I should list, please say.

Thanks!
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#2
Broni

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    Kraków my love :)

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Was it clean install?
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#3
deeplyblue

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Was it clean install?

Well, that's what he said:

"Il assume this is a hardware problem, since it is a clean install."

Though it should be noted that this is a RC, NOT a full manufacturing version of a new OS. It may be that the hardware is just fine - for XP/Vista, but something about it doesn't suit Win7. That's why they're letting people download it, and issuing all sorts of Do It At Your Own Risk notices.

In other words, it could be the software. Perhaps you should make a note of where it crashes (every time - no one said beta testing was easy!) and then send it to Microsoft. Just don't expect a useful reply (or at least not useful to you!)

db
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#4
Jack W-H

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There are no Bsods at all. Just freezes, however they are no longer 'permanent' as I first thought.

The 'hangs' happen now at ANY point after 7's startup. It's been as late as an hour and as soon as 30 seconds. The hangs appear to be for RANDOM amounts of time. Anything from 1 minute to 1 hour iv experienced. The clock will freeze and any mouse movements I do or butto s I press don't register - but when the computer unfreeze, everything I did whilst frozen suddenly 'happens' on the screen, if you get me.

It is not an overheating issue. I talked to a chap in PC World today about it. It's a PCW unit and he said the spec wouldn't overheat like that (of course, he may be wrong, but I have a bloomin noisy fan and the CPU in tests never went over 55 degrees). Intels website says operating range goes up to 65 degrees C, so again I don't think it's overheating.

Looking at my Event Viewer for the times of two crashes, I can glean absolutely nothing...

One crash happened at 11:19. This crash lasted 4 minutes. The event log shows these entries for 11:19:

Application:
Desktop Window Manager - The Desktop Window Manager was unable to start

System:
Service Control Manager - NVidia Drivers successfully installed *
UserPnP
UserPnp
Service Control Manager - NVidia entered a running state
UserPnP
Windows Update - NVidia Installed


* I was installing some driver updates when the crash happened, although I can pretty much confirm it was not my NVIdia card or its drivers that are causing the crash - re-installing Windows 7 AND taking the graphics card out (using onboard chip) still creates the crash, before 7 has even seen the graphics card)

My next crash was at 11:30. This lasted around 5 minutes. But there were no logs written to the event viewer at all during this...?!

Any further ideas before I re-install with a fresh burn?
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#5
deeplyblue

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TBH I would tackle one problem at a time - always a good rule when trouble-shooting. My suggestion is that you re-install the the XP setup with the old hardware, a setup which you knew used to work (bar the odd the crash!). THEN, when that works again, try getting the old OS to work with the new hardware. That way you should be able to check out the new chip with a known-good OS.

Only when you have the new chip up and working - preferably for a few days, and preferably in a somewhat stressed situation - only then do you try putting in the new OS.

Trouble is that ATM you don't know which of your problems are caused by the OS and which by the new hardware, or whether it's by a combination of the two. This is why it's usually a good idea, when upgrading, to do one thing at a time. (It's different if you're buying a new system, of course.)

Troubleshooting doesn't come high on the list quick highs, I'm afraid - lots of patience required.

db
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#6
Jack W-H

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Thanks DB. I have Reflashed my BIOS but still no support for the new processor - I think the motherboard simply is too old.

But I have ordered a new Gigabyte motherboard, that is confirmed Intel e2180 and my current spec compatible.

I will reload XP for the time being, and try my new hardware on that. Once it's stable I'll tackle Win7 again.
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#7
Jack W-H

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Sorry deeplyblue and others, things have gotten a bit confused. It's hard navigating a forum like this from the iPhone, and I may have posted in the wrong thread of mine...

Quote from my other thread, that really probably should have been in this one:

Ok, big problems.

Iv just tried to boot from my original supplied XP Recovery disk to put XP back on (Iv done this a couple of times in the past)...

But on boot, I see:

"Error! PC System not supported!

Press any key to continue."

Pressing any key restarts the machine...

I really haven't changed much at all. The only thing I can think of, is flashing an updated BIOS?!?

What on earth do I do now? :'(


pardon the confusion. For reference, please refer to the last several posts on this thread: http://www.geekstogo...p....html&st=15

Sorry. To summarise, I have ordered a new mobo so my processor issues are out of the way, however Windows7 still crashes and I can't get back into XP since the recovery disk has locked me out (see other thread).
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#8
deeplyblue

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I'm rather running out of ideas, and can be no help on a Win7 beta installation.

As far as I can find out , ""Error! PC System not supported!" is indeed a sign that your XP disk thinks that it is not being applied to same computer as the one it was bought with. Exactly how Microsoft define "same computer" is a little hard to discover, but it seems clear that you can only make a couple of changes (e.g. HDD+RAM) before the MS restore functions think you are on a different computer. It may even be that the orignal PCWorld computer has to be exactly as it was at the time of purchase. (That's just a guess on my part).

I take it that you have already tried reconstructing the PC that your original XP thinks should be there - orig chip, RAM, mobo, HDD and tried re-installing with what it should think is the original hardware. If you have, and it's still saying that it won't play ball, then you have a number of options, none of them particularly appealing:

1) Buy a new XP licence (on eBay), and start from there. Since that's £50 largely wasted, I'm guessing that's not a path you want to go down.

2) Keep plugging away at Win7. If necessary find a public library, take along a USB stick and try some of the Win7 forums/newsgroups and see if you can get specialist help.

3) Find a mate who will let you borrow their broadband connection and CD burner. Then you download a distro of Ubuntu, complete with various testing utils, burn it on to a bootable CD and start checking out your hardware setup from there. It is not going to be a permanent solution but [a] it's free and [b] you can get lots of hardware tools via the Linux community and [c] it will get you online again and finally [d] it's probably small enough to let you have a Linux partition and still have space for a Win7 one for you to tinker with.

This is the sort of occasion for which I keep a USB floppy drive and a bootable floppy with a couple of basic DOS utilities, but I'm inclined to think that you wouldn't get enough help from them in this situation. I would recommend putting a USB floppy on the Christmas list, though, if you might want to bypass whatever is not playing ball with your hard drive.

If raising your original setup from the grave works, then try changing one thing at a time - especially when beta software is involved.

If I were in your shoes, then I think I would be tempted to try the Linux route - it should work with your hardware regardless, and it doesn't involve paying out any more money. At least you would then be able to get online, and use one of the free word processors for a basic working system. Then I might try dual booting the Linux setup with a Win7 beta - once I'd got some good answers about Win7 using specialist forums.

I'm afraid you've rather hit the limits of my knowledge or understanding. Let us know what choices you make and how you get on.

db
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#9
devZERO

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The Windows 7 RC was RTM so it should be stable. Have you tried updating windows? Since its release the 7 RC has had quite a few updates once of which might fix your problem. Also might be a silly question but you did install the Windows 7 forceware?
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#10
Jack W-H

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I FIXED IT!!! :)

Admittedly the fix cost me around £40, but hey, never mind.

Bought a new motherboard, installed it, and bam. No more crashes, Windows 7!

If I could thank EVERYBODY at Geeks To Go for their brilliant help. Seriously. Cringey moment here, I couldn't have done it without you!

Thanks!
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#11
Makaveli213

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The Windows 7 RC was RTM so it should be stable. Have you tried updating windows? Since its release the 7 RC has had quite a few updates once of which might fix your problem. Also might be a silly question but you did install the Windows 7 forceware?

No it is not. Windows 7 RC is build 7100 and Windows 7 RTM is build 7600. There was code changes between them. As evident by trying to use the Search feature from any explorer window. It doesnt work with the RC but does with RTM. That is just one of many little fixes that have come since RC. There is also trying to print your WEI (Windows Experience Index) Score. Doesnt work in RC, does in RTM.

Before questions are asked, yes i run RTM. I have been since the 6th and have found many things that have changed. Software support is much better. Every piece of software that i used in XP/Vista worked flawlessly.

Jack W-H

Glad you got it sorted. Was really a strange issue. As i was running Win7 on a P4 Prescott without any issues.
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#12
Jack W-H

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No it is not. Windows 7 RC is build 7100 and Windows 7 RTM is build 7600. There was code changes between them. As evident by trying to use the Search feature from any explorer window. It doesnt work with the RC but does with RTM. That is just one of many little fixes that have come since RC


Eh? I'm running Build 7100, RC. Yet I can definitely search from inside any explorer window, successfully...?

I haven't tried printing anything yet since I haven't got the drivers installed yet, but hmmm. Is there any way to 'upgrade' to the RTM build 7600 or anything? Windows Update won't do it, and Microsoft are no longer offering downloads...

Jack W-H

Glad you got it sorted. Was really a strange issue. As i was running Win7 on a P4 Prescott without any issues.


I really have NO idea what on earth it was. But hey, thank you to everyone who helped me!
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#13
deeplyblue

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I FIXED IT!!! :)

Admittedly the fix cost me around £40, but hey, never mind.

Bought a new motherboard, installed it, and bam. No more crashes, Windows 7!

If I could thank EVERYBODY at Geeks To Go for their brilliant help. Seriously. Cringey moment here, I couldn't have done it without you!

Thanks!

Hello Jack

Very glad to hear you have a fix, and also pleased that you reported back to us. Not only is it nice to help acknowledged, but also it helps everyone when we know what works as well as what doesn't work.

I confess that you have re-confirmed some of my rules of thumb - only buy from PCWorld if you're desperate - new chip=new mobo - don't change hardware and software at the same time. Though "first thing, check the cables" doesn't seem to have come into it!

I suggest that you make any rescue disks that Win7 allows, and check that you have all the new drivers, utils etc burned to a CD against future need. Also don't forget that Microsoft will expect payment from you early next year (I think).

After that, I trust you, and anyone else reading this thread, will remember how much help is freely given to people who come out and ask the community for help. There are an astonishing number of people out there with an astonishing amount of knowledge (well, it continues to astonish me), who are happy to share it.

So when you need help - holla.

db
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#14
devZERO

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The Windows 7 RC was RTM so it should be stable. Have you tried updating windows? Since its release the 7 RC has had quite a few updates once of which might fix your problem. Also might be a silly question but you did install the Windows 7 forceware?

No it is not. Windows 7 RC is build 7100 and Windows 7 RTM is build 7600. There was code changes between them. As evident by trying to use the Search feature from any explorer window. It doesnt work with the RC but does with RTM. That is just one of many little fixes that have come since RC. There is also trying to print your WEI (Windows Experience Index) Score. Doesnt work in RC, does in RTM.

Before questions are asked, yes i run RTM. I have been since the 6th and have found many things that have changed. Software support is much better. Every piece of software that i used in XP/Vista worked flawlessly.

Jack W-H

Glad you got it sorted. Was really a strange issue. As i was running Win7 on a P4 Prescott without any issues.

You learn something new everday, Was anything changed that effected anything important, eg system stability or was it just polishing an already finished product?

Congrats on getting it fixed
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#15
Makaveli213

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No it is not. Windows 7 RC is build 7100 and Windows 7 RTM is build 7600. There was code changes between them. As evident by trying to use the Search feature from any explorer window. It doesnt work with the RC but does with RTM. That is just one of many little fixes that have come since RC


Eh? I'm running Build 7100, RC. Yet I can definitely search from inside any explorer window, successfully...?

I haven't tried printing anything yet since I haven't got the drivers installed yet, but hmmm. Is there any way to 'upgrade' to the RTM build 7600 or anything? Windows Update won't do it, and Microsoft are no longer offering downloads...

Jack W-H

Glad you got it sorted. Was really a strange issue. As i was running Win7 on a P4 Prescott without any issues.


I really have NO idea what on earth it was. But hey, thank you to everyone who helped me!

It could be something with the install or something system specific. But i can verify that i know of at least 2 dozen or more people that can't search. I have now run Win7 RTM 32 bit and 64 Bit and it works successfully everytime. It is confirmed as much by others who have access to using RTM.

So while you may not experience it, it is something that does hinder others.

As for the upgrade, not possible. It is stated on the Windows 7 site in their FAQ. At least it was. Not sure where they put that page now that Pre-Sales have begun. But Softpedia has a great article on it here.

The Windows 7 RC was RTM so it should be stable. Have you tried updating windows? Since its release the 7 RC has had quite a few updates once of which might fix your problem. Also might be a silly question but you did install the Windows 7 forceware?

No it is not. Windows 7 RC is build 7100 and Windows 7 RTM is build 7600. There was code changes between them. As evident by trying to use the Search feature from any explorer window. It doesnt work with the RC but does with RTM. That is just one of many little fixes that have come since RC. There is also trying to print your WEI (Windows Experience Index) Score. Doesnt work in RC, does in RTM.

Before questions are asked, yes i run RTM. I have been since the 6th and have found many things that have changed. Software support is much better. Every piece of software that i used in XP/Vista worked flawlessly.

Jack W-H

Glad you got it sorted. Was really a strange issue. As i was running Win7 on a P4 Prescott without any issues.

You learn something new everday, Was anything changed that effected anything important, eg system stability or was it just polishing an already finished product?

Congrats on getting it fixed

It is much more stable and they updated some code as well. As to the finer points on what was done, i cant tell you for sure as i dont have access to all that information. But i can say that my resource usage is down from RC to RTM and every thing responds faster. Which is always a good sign.

On top of that, program compatibility is almost fully dead on. In 32 Bit i was able to run the exact same software with no issues that i have used on numerous XP and Vista installs. They all worked in Win7. Games are tough as some seem to work and install, but cause issues. Starcraft and Star Wars Knights of the old Republic are 2 for sure. They both dont operate properly. But they install just dine.

In 64 Bit the only issue i have had is with things that require Digitally Signed Drivers. But then again running 64 Bit you need to have DSD to work properly unless you have Win7 boot without it. Since i dont that is where my problem comes in.
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