Jump to content

Welcome to Geeks to Go - Register now for FREE

Geeks To Go is a helpful hub, where thousands of volunteer geeks quickly serve friendly answers and support. Check out the forums and get free advice from the experts. Register now to gain access to all of our features, it's FREE and only takes one minute. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more.

Create Account How it Works
Photo

Mobo upgrade advice please


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked

#16
makai

makai

    Portlock - Oahu

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,793 posts
P4 processors are quite tough. More than likely, the processor is fine and anyways, there is no test you can run unless you have another machine you can install the processor into.

Processors heat up very fast... very, very fast! If you're already at 61C in bios, then I would suspect it's quite a bit higher once you start Windows, thus crashing it. I would suggest you reapply the thermal paste then go back into bios and observe the processor temp for a while. It shouldn't go much above 37C. If it still seems too high, I would reapply again. Also, be extra careful when removing and replacing the processor heatsink and fan. Go slowly and gently so no damage occurs to the processor or surrounding motherboard electronics... some motherboard parts are small and can get broken very easily.

The thermal grease I recommend is Arctic Silver 5 (AS5). There are many others, that other people recommend. Some people stay away from AS5 because it contains silver which is conductive. However, in my tests, (and AS5 manufactures) I haven't found it conductive. But just to make sure, don't get any of it on anything electronic, and also not on the leads of the processor or motherboard. Go HERE to see how to apply AS5. If your processor looks like the second photo down on the left... also be sure not to let any AS5 cover or go into the hole!
  • 0

Advertisements


#17
Eden1

Eden1

    Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
Hi Makai ,
Thanks for that great info ,i had seen Arctic Silver & the other types of thermal paste but i appreciate your recommendation for AS-5 which is what i will get .
I studied the link closely but just so i get sure in myself - i've read some people like to put a small BB sized of the paste and spread it all over the CPU very thinly . Do you prefer this method or the advice given by Arctic silver - a very thin line that is then spread by the Heat sink when pressed into place ?

One last point before i proceed with this if i may - i'm wondering whether my Heat Sink fan is in need of replacement in case (as you suspect) the RPM speed is not as high as it should be ?
  • 0

#18
makai

makai

    Portlock - Oahu

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,793 posts
On the AS5 link I posted, what does your processor look like?

EDITED
I decided not to wait for your reply.

While this isn't the same type processor you have, THIS is how I apply AS5 (this is not me, by the way!). So, yes, I do apply over the entire heatsink. I'm in the electronics industry, and heat transfer is critical... use all the space you can get!

When applying, all you need to do is put a dab of about the size of a large rice grain. Then smooth it out all over the heatsink. You'll almost be able to see right through the AS5 after you're all done, but you don't want to be too thin that you can see metal. On the heatsink itself, put half a grain of AS5 and rub it in... then take a paper towel and basically rub most of it off. All you'll end up is with a very light gray area where the AS5 was... almost like the heatsink is just dirty. Don't use too much AS5, or you'll limit the heat transfer. Sounds weird, I know, but thats how it is.

As for the fan, Google searches indicate anywhere from 2200 to 2600 for the stock P4 fan. I seem to remember this somewhat. Before you think of replacing the fan though, there might be a bios setting that's limiting the fan speed, or adjusting it dynamically. Go into bios and check around.
  • 0

#19
Eden1

Eden1

    Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
Hi ,

Thanks for that - i have now taken the Fan & heatsink off and exposed the CPU so i can tell you which type it looks like . It closely resembles the picture from the link you gave (2nd photo down on left) - however there is no small hole in the corner as there is in the photo .
Basically it is a thin green square with 2 small rounded cutouts on 2 opposing sides on top of this is a silver metal square attached with a slight "cutout" on the outer edge of one side .On top of this , sitting proud is another metal square - this i take it is the heat shield which i will be spreading the AS5 on yes ?
I guess that is a basic match and not all single core type CPU's are identical ?

Anyway there didn't appear to be too much of the original thermal paste on the cpu so i will follow the method you have described and hope i can judge it right .
Incidentally - if it means anything to you the CPU Fan/heatsink is
TaiSol 12vDC
Intel LGA 775 / Cet 5A 63989B6

Don't know anything about the brand but if it's like most else inside the system i guess it won't be up to much ? Ive detached it from the mobo and will give it a good clean but i might look into getting a replacement incase the rpm is affected .
I don't want to be a hassle to you as i know there are lots needing help on the forum but i really appreciate your help .
  • 0

#20
makai

makai

    Portlock - Oahu

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,793 posts
Could you post a photo of the processor? I'm curious about this other metal piece that's "sitting proud". It sounds from your description like there are two metal pieces, and I'm wondering if its a thermal pad of some sort. Be careful to keep your self grounded if you decide to pull the processor out... don't pull it if you don't have to.

Also, you should clean both the processor lid, and the base of the heatsink where it contacts the processor before putting on the AS5. Use Isopropyl Alcohol... preferably the 99% pure type. You could use household, but it contains a lot of water... about 70%. 99% is much better and recommended. Just use a q-tip for cleaning the processor lid, and paper towel on the heatsink.
  • 0

#21
Eden1

Eden1

    Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
Hi ,
Yes will try and post a photo tomorrow - it may be just my description that is confusing but that's about the way it looks to me .
I assumed the raised or proud metal square that i described was the Thermal Spreader as detailed on the AS link but it definitely looks like 3 "layers" - green square (kind of like a circuit board)with a slightly smaller silver square on top -this has rounded corner and then what appears like another metal square on top . But hopefully you'll be able to see when i post the photo.
Actually i think i may have to take the CPU out as with the heatsink/fan off i can see some dust etc is in around the edge of where it is seated . I may have to gently blow that out of the way i feel before i clean off the old Paste residue .
By the way , i got a Arcti Cleane 1&2 in a deal with the AS5 so i guess it's ok to use that ?
One general question regarding this procedure - would it make sense to use disposable latex gloves as i have access to these -thought it might help cut out static & skin grease threat ?
  • 0

#22
makai

makai

    Portlock - Oahu

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,793 posts
Yah, Arcti Cleane 1&2 is fine.
You referenced the 2nd photo down on the left (with no hole) as the photo that looked like your processor. Does it look more like the 3rd down on the left, or the 2nd down on the right? If not, it might be a thermal pad instead of solid metal. I believe old P4 thermal pads had a thin foil like sheet that sat between the pad and the processor... something like this. I thought they were larger than the processor lid, so it still might not be what I'm thinking of.




As for the latex glove... unless it's static proof (unlikely you would have some!), just use the finger tip like shown on the youtube link to apply the AS5. Don't forget to ground yourself before working inside the computer. LOL... I think if I say this a hundred times, I still feel the need to keep saying it. The price of being an engineer in Aerospace! :)
  • 0

#23
Eden1

Eden1

    Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
[quote name=
You referenced the 2nd photo down on the left (with no hole) as the photo that looked like your processor. Does it look more like the 3rd down on the left, or the 2nd down on the right?
Quote .

Hmm , that's tricky cos they really look pretty similar to (my) untrained eye but between those 2 photos and mine i'd say mine looks more like the 3rd photo down on left , but purely because it has little/no writing on the face as mine has none .

About these 2 photos - do they look like the centre is recessed down or does it sit proud kind of hard to tell... could be i'm mistaken from the photos ?
If i'm wrong and these 2 also have the centre portion sit up proud then that's is like mine.

Certainly they both have the same 2 small crescent cutouts on 2 opposing sides like mine and one thing i just checked on - you see the 2nd photo down on the right , that has a small cut out on one side with some REALLY small writing there and that is very like mine .I think i'd need a magnifying glass to read it but based on that observation perhaps the best match is the 2nd photo on the right .There is only a slight residue of the old paste on my CPU but it might be that some writing is hidden -i won't know 'til i clean it off .
I'll try and get the photo posted for you to confirm .
  • 0

#24
Eden1

Eden1

    Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
CPUphoto1.jpg

CPUphoto2.jpg

Hi Makai ,

Here goes with the CPU photo you requested -i hope it is close/good enough for you to get a good look at it ?
AS you can see there is a fair bit of dust etc around the edges which makes me think it requires cleaning -ok to take it out if i'm very careful with fingertips and making sure i'm grounded ?

Whilst having a good closer look now the Heatsink is off i did note something & i took a photo . I think there are 2 capacitors that look slightly "dome"shaped at the top . The others look more "flat" topped -it's noticable because the cross hairs on them are slightly expanded = maybe mobo damage ?
  • 0

#25
makai

makai

    Portlock - Oahu

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,793 posts
The CPU is like the 3rd down on the left or the 2nd down on the right. You see, photos do wonders.

As for the caps... these are blown. These caps are most probably in the PWM circuitry used for filtering the bias for major components. During the P4 era, cheap Taiwanes capacitors were used throughout the motherboard manufacturing industry. This is why nowadays, manufactures specify Japanese capacitors on many of their websites as a selling point. Due to this, your first intention to replace the motherboard was a good idea! I have replaced caps like these on several boards with varying degrees of success. One of the boards I did about 4 years ago is still running. Some others, not so lucky. Capacitors such as these can be purchased from Digikey.com. You would need a rework scope and a good 40watt soldering iron (used for reworking small electronics) to work on the motherboard.

I don't know which direction you wish to take now, but you can't run the motherboard as is.
  • 0

Advertisements


#26
Eden1

Eden1

    Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
[quote name='makai' date='Aug 29 2009, 02:54 PM' post='1625550']
The CPU is like the 3rd down on the left or the 2nd down on the right. You see, photos do wonders.

Ok - so does that alter in any way the method of applying the Thermal paste or should i still follow your earlier description - assuming i re-use the P4 processor ?

Regarding the mobo - well i'm kind of not really surprised as i feared that might be the case and your diagnosis when i took the photo today .
So this is most probably what's behind the no posting issue etc on startup ?
I guess i'm back to looking into a suitable mobo replacement , with this in mind if this is my mobo here

http://shopper.cnet....o=review#info-1

what is your opinion of something like this -

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131394

Would this be compatible with my system and allow me to still use the current HDD & DVD drive etc - perhaps i might have to get an upgrade (Sata) HDD ?
If this is suitable then am i correct in thinking i can install the P4 into the Asus mobo - assuming it is in working order it would leave me scope to upgrade the CPU later ?
  • 0

#27
makai

makai

    Portlock - Oahu

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,793 posts
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I'm tied up building a machine for my nephew.

Yay, basic application of AS5 is always the same no matter the processor you use. Just follow the youtube link and you'll be fine.

The ASUS board looks like it won't work... the FSB doesn't support 533mhz processors, nor does the specs say it supports P4 Pentiums. You might be better off just replacing with the same motherboard, then you don't have even have to reload windows, plus you already have all the drivers.
  • 0

#28
Eden1

Eden1

    Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
Hi ,
No worries - thanks for your thoughts on the mobo .
A couple of things i'm a little confused about - on the link to the general description of the specs for my Intel Board in my previous post ,it says -

"Mainboard / Multi-Core Support - Dual-Core "

Does this mean (if i was to replace this mobo with same board ) i could upgrade the P4 with a Dual Core CPU - like a Pentium or celeron Dual Core etc -as long as it was the right mhz ?

quote-
"The ASUS board looks like it won't work... the FSB doesn't support 533mhz processors, nor does the specs say it supports P4 Pentiums ..."

Do you mean the Asus board (or something like it ) is not compatible with the current P4 CPU , but IF i was to install newer CPU of the corresponding Mhz speed it would then be ok ?
In other words it's the current P4 that is preventing this mobo upgrade ?
  • 0

#29
makai

makai

    Portlock - Oahu

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,793 posts

"Mainboard / Multi-Core Support - Dual-Core "

Does this mean (if i was to replace this mobo with same board ) i could upgrade the P4 with a Dual Core CPU - like a Pentium or celeron Dual Core etc -as long as it was the right mhz ?

I can't answer this question. I'm not familiar with the board, and I don't know why they separated out the Dual Core support into a different list item. You would think that if it supported Dual Core, they would have listed it with the rest of the processors under "Compatible Processors". Your best bet for the right answer is to contact Intel support by email.

"The ASUS board looks like it won't work... the FSB doesn't support 533mhz processors, nor does the specs say it supports P4 Pentiums ..."

Do you mean the Asus board (or something like it ) is not compatible with the current P4 CPU , but IF i was to install newer CPU of the corresponding Mhz speed it would then be ok ?
In other words it's the current P4 that is preventing this mobo upgrade ?

Yes the CPU is the limiting factor with this particular ASUS board.

I'm not really that familiar with mini-ATX. What I mean by this, is that I've never built a system using one, but I have repaired them, and we do use them at work. I'm sure they're basically the same as regular ATX, but only cut down in size and possibly range of support for additional hardware... ie, there's only 2 ram slots... your machine only supports max 2Gbs of ram. The impression I have of mini-ATX systems is that they're more for people who don't need a lot of power, don't do heavy processing, and virtually no gaming. The gaming part, I'm unsure about, but every configuration I've repaired didn't have a PCI vid card and every machine was of a "basic" configuration with the selling point of being small. With all that in mind, I would still think that if Intel made a mini-ATX board that supports a P4, then other manufactures also made some. You would just have to hunt around and check the specs to ensure the board will work with your existing hardware.

On the other hand, say you decided to buy a new board, and then upgrade the Processor at the same time. You would end up "limiting" yourself, unless you also bought a vid card. If you go that far, then you may as well go Sata hard drive for gained capacity. In the end, you would basically be putting together a newer computer... so you may as well just build a new desktop.

The desktop I'm putting together for my nephew has the following components... but, before you read what's there, the total cost was $645 w/tax and shipping (no case... using the old one)... all from Newegg.com. The main objective was to replace an old P4 2.4ghz system with a better system that can handle a little gaming, a little HD capable, and will be used mostly for video editing... along with all the normal stuff... office, internet, blah, blah. Speed of the processor is not that important for a machine like this unless you're willing to pay more. The difference in speed of processor would speed up a video encoding session by about 4 minutes... no a big deal when encoding takes 2 hours per file anyways. By the way, this machine is considered low end. The motherboard is waaaay cool though!

VGA EVGA 512-P3-N954-TR 9500GT RT
DVD BURNER SAMSUNG | SH-S223L
HD 500G|SEAGATE ST3500418AS
CPU COOL ZALMAN|ZM-CS4A
FLASH 4G|OCZ FLDRV OCZUSBR2DC-4GB
DVD BURNER SAMSUNG | SH-S223B
PSU PCPWR&COOLING|PPCS500 500W RT
CPU INTEL|C2D E7500 2.93G 45N
MB GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R P45 775
MEM 2Gx2|GSK F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK

I guess it comes down to what you'll be satisfied with. If it were me, I would price out all the components it'll take to fix that old P4 system and compare it to what you'd pay if you just built something new. Whether you choose to go new, or repair your old, pay attention not only to the CPU and FSB, but also the ram type required.
  • 0

#30
urbrojr

urbrojr

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts
Have been following this cycle of posts as I have some similar problems. I have an XP w/512 p/4. My Cpu temp is 69C when I boot up in the am and runs between 69C and 70c the rest of the time. I have one fan and it runs between 2415 and 2484 most of the time. Why I watched these posts was to see if either P/S, MOBO or CPU is bad that would be causing my crash and restart. I will keep watching here for any ideas. I am new here and hope this way of following up is OK......URBROJR
  • 0






Similar Topics

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

As Featured On:

Microsoft Yahoo BBC MSN PC Magazine Washington Post HP