[Digerati]

I'm afraid I had the same argument many times so I doubt I would have been of help. That said, I use CCleaner on MY machines - I am never eager to use a registry cleaner on someone else's, or to recommend their use via a forum.

I think CCleaner is best used immediately after installing Windows, then fairly regularly after that as part of a preventative maintenance plan. Again, not as a fix procedure. So don't go saying I recommend them. I don't for most people as they have caused problems, and reason for the MR folks concerns.

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I completely understand the concern with ccleaner and registry cleaners use in the hands of people that dont know what it is they are doing. Even though it ask for a back up if they dont know how to restore that backup then whats the point and/or if something does start to act up they dont even think about the restoring the backup and moving on. but in the hands of more technical people that have a pretty good clue to what the program is and what it is capable of i think a reg cleaner is no more dangerous than any other tool that is out there. mostly i am just mad that the MR people fussed me, not the first time, but the second time. I had made it plenty known that i had a pretty good idea of what it was that i was doing and was told to either stop using reg cleaners all together and follow their instructions to the letter or stop fixing people's computer and go a different route in life (almost those exact words too). though i dont know what every registry entry is and most of the time dont even check out the majority of the entries i ALWAYS make a full backup of someone else's computer before i do anything serious on it (including ccleaner). i have shot myself in the foot too many times on my own computer to trust that i wont mess thing up on others computer with any tools and thus have learned not to take things for granted, especially when there are so many things that could go wrong.


BUT ANYWAYS.. now im just venting..

how long you think memtest should run to get a good picture of the memory's status?

[SomeCrazyStuff]

I completely understand the concern with ccleaner and registry cleaners use in the hands of people that dont know what it is they are doing. Even though it ask for a back up if they dont know how to restore that backup then whats the point and/or if something does start to act up they dont even think about the restoring the backup and moving on. but in the hands of more technical people that have a pretty good clue to what the program is and what it is capable of i think a reg cleaner is no more dangerous than any other tool that is out there. mostly i am just mad that the MR people fussed me, not the first time, but the second time. I had made it plenty known that i had a pretty good idea of what it was that i was doing and was told to either stop using reg cleaners all together and follow their instructions to the letter or stop fixing people's computer and go a different route in life (almost those exact words too). though i dont know what every registry entry is and most of the time dont even check out the majority of the entries i ALWAYS make a full backup of someone else's computer before i do anything serious on it (including ccleaner). i have shot myself in the foot too many times on my own computer to trust that i wont mess thing up on others computer with any tools and thus have learned not to take things for granted, especially when there are so many things that could go wrong.


BUT ANYWAYS.. now im just venting..

how long you think memtest should run to get a good picture of the memory's status?

[Digerati]

I had made it plenty known that i had a pretty good idea of what it was that i was doing

That's immaterial and we hear that all the time. Someone swaps out a PSU and suddenly they call themself a "technician". It took me more than 2 years of extensive tech schools, follow-on training, and a year of on-the-job training before I could call myself a technician. Folks tell us they keep their systems clean of malware, only to find out they are 2 patches behind, still running IE6, and disabled their real-time AV because it was slowing them down, insisting their infestation has nothing to do with their P2P software and filesharing practices.

So saying you know computers or you know security does not cut it, and the MR folks cannot simply accept their word, any more than I can accept someone who has "assembled" a few parts together into a PC is now a hardware expert, in spite of their claims.

So the MR folks have a very valid point - brought about because of bad past experiences, often from poorly developed registry cleaners long ago when they first started to appear, in the hands of wannabe experts. It is no fun cleaning up the mess some people make when they try to fix something themselves as often the aftermath of that is worse than the original ailment. But like many things over time, they improve and that includes registry cleaner. But when folks get stuck in their ways, and blinders go on, there's no convincing otherwise.

But to be fair, it IS better to err on the side of caution.

was told to either stop using reg cleaners all together and follow their instructions to the letter or stop fixing people's computer and go a different route in life

I've been told the same thing - but to be fair again, it is not my site. Most of these sites are owned by Malware Removal people. Their site, their rules, and that's fair. I admit, it really frustrates me sometimes because I am a hardware/electronics technician, but I've been supporting "secure" communications networks for decades and know a thing or two about security and malware removal - I just personally don't enjoy analyzing logs, after doing it day in and day out for the Air Force for many years, so I have never had the desire to go through one of the academies. I can and do analyze when necessary, but that is rarely necessary as the vast majority of malware problems can be resolved using conventional tools available to the normal user. But now I am venting.

So, I have learned to deal with problems as I can, and if it looks like someone needs extended anti-malware help, I send them to the MR experts. And when they are done, or it looks like the problem is not a security issue, they send them back to us. The process does work, and since the idea is to help folks, we let it work.

As for MemTest, as noted, overnight is best, but if time is short, at least a couple complete "passes".

[SomeCrazyStuff]

meh.. once again my "mouth" gets me in trouble.. yea i see your points. i suppose i just lost my patience a certain MR person after being told that i didnt know what i was doing even though i had just finished a 2 year course of computer network technology and was top of my class in just about every class. Yea i got my course through a community college and it was in no way comparable to specialized school but i do still have a pretty good grasp on the OS and its working and hardware side i am excellent at troubleshooting and figuring out what the problem most likely is. but yes i do understand the MR folks point of view. just the way i was told not the use reg cleaners was overly harsh and very downgrading...

but.. memtest.. i will go see if i can make a trip to the computer and get those results loaded.. I am almost positive they will be clean.. I dont think I am having a hardware issue.. I think some software is clashing. but i have been unable to figure out exactly what software that would be. it will be about 30 minutes before i can upload the memtest results though...

[SomeCrazyStuff]

ok heres the memtest results.. had 1 error.. i guess maybe i do have failing memory..

test 8 pass 3 failing address 00117b8bf8c - 4475.5MB Good 9a12ac05 bad b521ac05 err-bits ff000000 count 1 chan -

Does that mean anything to you? or are we just going to say that memory is failing because memtest found an error?

[Digerati]

There's nothing wrong with a 2 year degree from a community college, as long as it is accredited. Typically, the community college has the same "technical" courses, but also require other course to "round out" the degree with needed basics, like some advanced math to include physics, several credits in English, etc. Nothing wrong with that. Typically, with a 2-year degree, you can move on to a 4 year, Bachelors degree. You can't do that with a degree from a tech school.

test 8 pass 3 failing address 00117b8bf8c - 4475.5MB Good 9a12ac05 bad b521ac05 err-bits ff000000 count 1 chan -

Does that mean anything to you? or are we just going to say that memory is failing because memtest found an error?

I don't know exactly what that means, except it means trouble. Now you need to isolate which module is bad, if memtest didn't.

[SomeCrazyStuff]

alright.. will post result as soon as i have them..

i suppose best way to take one stick one (i have 2 2gb sticks) and run memtest for a while then put other one in by itself and run memtest for another lil while and see whaich give the error? or do you have a better way?

[Digerati]

With only 2, that's it. But bear in mind, I have seen where they test fine alone, but don't play well together - meaning you have to get a new pair. Also, when running with only 1, some motherboards require it go in a particular slot. So if the other slot is bad, you don't spot it. It can get frustrating. Some motherboards, especially if they support dual-channel, let you put 1 stick in slot 1 or in slot 3. If that is the case, you might experiment with that too. Stay disciplined about unplugging from the wall, and discharging your self on bare metal before reaching in.

[SomeCrazyStuff]

ok heres what i got:

i took out each stick one at a time and ran memtest for 3 full passes(about and hour and a half)

stick one slot one 3 pass 0 errors

stick two slot one 3 pass 0 errors

stick one slot two 3 pass 0 errors

stick two slot two 3 pass 0 errors

after getting this i put both the sticks back in except in the opposite slot

stick one in slot two and stick two in slot one: started giving errors immedialtely.. by the time the first pass got to 8% there were 210 errors and counting rapidly.

funny that i didnt get these errors originally or while testing the sticks indivually

I booted up windows and it still reports the full 3.5 GB that it had before (though there are 2 2gb sticks in there)

thoughts?

[Digerati]

Are these identical sticks?

Seeing less than 4Gb on 32-bit systems is normal, as a chunk goes to system overhead. Some see less than 3Gb so you are doing fine there. As for your odd results, can't explain them, but I would be looking for another pair.

[SomeCrazyStuff]

yep identical stick.. they were a 4gb kit.. both patriot ddr2...

do you think that the memory is the cause of my bsod and lockups? i would really like to be sure before buying more.. i haven't had any oher problems that i would think would be memory related.. dont remember ever getting memory reference errors or such.. is there another way we can test to be sure?

what is a good overall stress test application? i used to have one but have forgotten what it was..

[Digerati]

do you think that the memory is the cause of my bsod and lockups?

That's my guess. Try running with just 1 and see if it crashes.

i would really like to be sure before buying more..

I don't blame you - but there really is no positive test one way or the other, except, perhaps, at the RAM maker's factor.

See Prime 95 for a stress test. You might try testing your RAM with Microsoft's tester too - see my earlier post.

[SomeCrazyStuff]

ook.. heres just an update.. cant hardly do anything on the computer this morning.. any chance memtest overloaded the memory?

actually i am on it right now and it seems to be running pretty smoothly for the time being. I just read a post in a different forum of someone else with basically the same build as me that is having the same trouble. But there was no answer to his question. It seems that with the 4gb kit (2x2gb) of patriot extreme RAM with my current build (Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600) that there is something preventing the memory sticks from working together.

here is the specific post i was reading from: link

though i have yet to run prime95 or the windows memory thingy im not sure that either of them will give helpful results. Can you think of any way i could figure out why exactly these two sticks seem to hate each other of if they are truely going bad?

Again I am not so sure that they are going bad because they went through memtest just fine each by themselves. It was when i swapped which slots they were in (stick one in slot three and stick two in slot one)that i got the problems. This morning, after having so much trouble i pulled them out and returned them to the original slots (stick one in slot one and stick two in slot three) and all seems to be fine, at least for the moment.

thoughts?

PS.. i am about to go to the windows memory tester thing-a-ma-bob and print out those directions and try running that. Also while that is printing i am going to download that prime95 as well.

[Digerati]

any chance memtest overloaded the memory?

If it did, that would be a sign of faulty memory.

Can you think of any way i could figure out why exactly these two sticks seem to hate each

Back in my radio maintenance days, we used to call such mysteries "FM", though it was not for frequency modulation, but for a specific type of magic, the name of which is not suitable for family audiences. These "FM" event are often caused by... ...gremlins.

I see that link is from the Patriot Memory forums - too bad it went unanswered. Is yours the same ASUS board? And you are not overclocking, right? Don't until this resolved.

And just to verify, this computer and this RAM worked fine for about 2 years, correct?

[SomeCrazyStuff]

yes i have the p5n-e sli MoBo and yes the RAM has worked just fine for 2 years if not more.. I am not overclocking at all.. I have never done so nor do i want to chance ruining hardware just to make it unnoticeably better..

fm magic.. lol fm (imo) stands for f*** me.. and yes that is not suitable for family audiences... gremlins indeed, i think my computer has had some take up residence over the weekend.