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Help - System Crashes !


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#31
DrD

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Ok, will format tonight. <_< Few pieces of info...

I have the EP-8K9A2, not the EP-8K9A2+
The + model includes LAN, Raid and something called S-ATA.

The sensors using MBM on WinBond 1 and 2 have were alarming when
I had the high temp setting at 70 and even at 80, but they stop when I
set the high temp threshold to 90. (I think it was really only the second
sensor which was alarming). Still it seems high. This is with the clock
set to 166X 13 = 2.16MHz. I don't understand why the retail heatsink
and fan can't keep the chip cool enough at this frequency. I'm well under
the 2.5GHz spec. Isn't that what the 2500+ indicates ? That it is rated to
run around 2.5GHz without much trouble ?

Dr D
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#32
admin

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Hmmm, more marketing confusion -- the Athlon processor will outperform a P4 at similar clock speeds, so AMD invented their "performance rating". The 2500+ PR indicates this chip will perform equal to a Pentium 4 2.5ghz, but the chip actually operates at a default clock speed of 1.83 ghz . A 3200+ default clock is 2.2ghz, so you're getting almost 3200+ speed from your CPU (a $450 part). 2.5ghz would be somewhere around 3600+.

It sounds lke you're having overheating problems when overclocking. The heating problem is a very real concern. 90 Celcius is way too high. This can cause stability problems and reboots/lockups. What voltage are you running? You should be able to get 2.2ghz using stock voltage (1.5V?). The two things that increase heat are clock speed and voltage. You want to keep your CPU temps under 70C.

Your MB could also be reporting the temp incorrectly. Turn off your system and let it cool. When rebooting immedialty go to BIOS and look at the PC Health Status screen and look at the temps. You want to do this quickly. The temp should be ~40C at boot up, if not the diode is probably reporting the temps incorrectly. (i.e. if it's 60C, the temps are probably being reported ~20C too high).

Finally, do you remember, did the retail heat sink you received have a copper core? I think they ship this heatsink with all retail Barton's now, and it's actually a pretty good performer. If it was the all aluminum model, a HSF upgrade may be required for overclocking.

edit: One last thing to add, it's not uncommon for a CPU to overclock better after it been "burned in" for a couple weeks. Your maximium overclock now may be able to be improved upon after it's "broken in". I know this doesn't make a lot of sense with a solid-state part, but it seems to be the case.
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#33
DrD

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<_<
Wow - this is huge piece of info for me. I was under the mistaken impression that I should be able to achieve 2.5GHz speeds with this CPU. I guess I should have read more closely. And so, I must truly be nearly at the max at 2.1GHz. This is very good to know, I should stop trying for 166X 14 and 166X 15. I wish I could have realized this from the posts. Very sneaky of them to use a model name which does not accurately describe the part. Well, this changes things a bit. I will make 166X 13 my new target and try the heat experiment you said. Or perhaps try raising the FSB a bit further and lowering the multiplier to remain in the 2.16GHz range.

I was running at this setting (2.16GHz) last night for a little while, but I would get booted from SWG from time to time. However when I would have normally crashed, I was now getting kicked to the desktop with the game only minimized. And I could then get back into the game. I think this was in part due to the mem and power of the new vid card. I was still, as always (even @low speeds), having the off and on freezes (10 secs or so every 10-15min) during the game. I'm really starting to think its a heat problem. After the format and re-install tonight, I'll put an external fan on the open case to improve airflow and watch for any changes. I would like to know where I can run smoothly using the retail fan/sink. I'll look to see if it has the copper core. Also, I've heard many people say they raised Vdimm to 2.6V - mine is currently at 2.4V. Would the combination of an increase to Vdimm and the 2.16GHz clock be too much do you think ?

Dr D
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#34
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Also, I've heard many people say they raised Vdimm to 2.6V - mine is currently at 2.4V. Would the combination of an increase to Vdimm and the 2.16GHz clock be too much do you think?


Go for it! Vdimm voltage only increases the voltage to the memory. This will allow for a higher FSB overclock, or more aggressive memory timings. Your Crucial memory will have no problem with 2.6V.

When overclocking remember there are two ways available with an AMD CPU. You can adjust the mutilplier, which only affects the speed of the CPU. You can also OC the Front Side Bus. OC'ing the FSB affects the CPU and memory. When OC'ing for gaming, this added memory/CPU bandwidth is more desirable. You will notice some people even lower their mulitplier to acheive a high FSB.

Since the Barton 2500+ is such a good overclocker, I think you'll have a combination of both. First determine your max FSB speed, and then determine the max multiplier at this OC'd FSB speed. This will give you the maximum memory bandwidth, and CPU performance. I'd recommend once you've determined the maximum your system is stable at, I'd back each off a couple Mhz for increased stability.

Also, see page 4-9, 4-10 in your manual. Memory performance is a whole other topic. Basically, you want to relax (increase the numbers) to reach max. FSB speeds, or if running lower FSB speeds select Ultra, or turbo (decreases the numbers).

To get the most from your system, download SiSoft Sandra it's a free synthetic benchmarking tool. You can use this to monitor how your FSB and memory settings are affecting memory performance.

PS. If you remove your heasink/fan, you'll need to carefully scrape off the thermal pad, and reapply thermal compound (like Artic Silver).
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#35
DrD

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:D :D :D :D PROBLEM SOLVED !!! :D :D :D :D

Well, it's finally fixed. Hallelujah!!! After formatting 6 partitions, re-installing Win2k to the primary C partition, and re-installing all drivers and apps, I'm now in Star Wars Galaxies with no freezes, no crashes, and nothing whatsoever that shouldn't be other than a little lag !!! <_< I played for about three hours and never even got kicked to the desktop!! Very nice, excellent help.

I played with the FSB and multipler. I was able to boot and do most things with the FSB at 180 and multiplier at 12X for 2.16GHz. I did have one lockup with this going into the game once, so I backed off to 175FSB (actually 350MHz) with a 12X multipler for 2.1GHz, and this was how I played for 3 hours. Awesome!!!

:D B) :D B) :D :D B) :D B) :D

I am not bothered about it now that I studied the benchmarks at Anandtech. The XP 2500+ with 1.83GHz clock OC'd to 2.1GHz is actually outperforming an Intel Pentium 4 running at 3 GHz for general usage and beats about a 2.5GHz Pentium for Gaming tests. That's the way the marks look to me.

Article Comparing AMD Barton to the Intel Pentium 4

So I guess that's the end of that problem. The only question left is the heat. Looking at the sensor data in MBM, I don't think its working correctly. Even when I ran at the default 166X11 (1.83GHz) it still alarmed for 80 degrees C, and I have a hard time believing that is real. Also when I click on High/Low on the left, the "current" readings of each sensor are at 127 degrees C and the third sensor is at 0. So I'm not trusting this for now. Each time I perform a reboot, the CPU temp boots right around 46-49 degree C range. So I am gonna hang on to my components for now and run at 2.1GHz for a while. I may try the FSB back up to 180 again when I have time to watch the system closely. I'm headed off to Dallas for 2 weeks tomorrow, so I'll leave the setup as is for now. Vdimm now at 2.6V.

Thanks again !!! :D

Dr D
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#36
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<_< Congratulations! Nice work.

It sounds like MBM either isn't compatible with your MB, or there's an issue with the temp sensing diode. The best temp utility is usually offered by the mfg of the board, but I didn't see one available from the Epox site. SiSoft Sandra will also report temps, just not "real time". You could also try touching the heatsink, it should feel quite warm, but not hot.

Sounds like you've built yourself an awesome system for a very nice price. Benchmarks are nice for comparing to others, but the true test, is how fast the system feels to you. I'm sure you've noticed quite an improvement.

You may want to keep an eye on Epox site for a BIOS update, and keep your VIA Hyperion (4in1) drivers up-to-date.

When you're up to the next challenge, some ATI 9500's can be made to perform on par with the 9700. (If is has "L-shaped" memory.)

Enjoy your system, have a good time in Dallas, and I hope to see you around the board from time to time!
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#37
DrD

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When you're up to the next challenge, some ATI 9500's can be made to perform on par with the 9700. (If is has "L-shaped" memory.)


Yes I've heard about this !! What I read from another article was something
along the lines of "the 9500Pro is a detuned 9700 and some people have been
able to unlock the disabled functionality" (paraphrased). I definitely want to
know more. This was all I needed to read to convince me to put in the extra
$60 to get the card instead of the budget ATI Card I originally purchased. Just
like I hacked my Tivo to go from 14 hours to over 100, I'm looking forward to
maybe do something with the 9500Pro. I'll start a new thread for that once
I've enjoyed my system a bit and am ready for another interesting project. <_<

Dr D
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