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XP SP3 - Attempts to update software result in looping.


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#46
Macboatmaster

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No Not at all., in respect of the if you dont do this etc,
I am not that sort of guy.
If I had not wanted to work with you as long as necessary I would not have asked for the win audit and spent some considerable time going through it.


I sincerely believe that the update problem is a combination of the slow pwrformance and something else running on the computer.
If you had a corruption in the file system and particularly in the Micrsoft Installer service, I am sure that we would have found it.
The chkdsk and the system file checker AND the download of the program I sent you - to update the installer service should certainly have correced those issues.

I feel you have misunderstodd what I have said and I am sorry if it is in any respect my fault.
AVAST is a really good free anti-virus
Online Armor is a good firewall.
HOWEVER as per my recent post they use ram MORE than my suggestion.
If you press Ctrl Alt Delete and on the Performance tab you will see below the graphs the Total Physical memory that will be 512000 as it is in KB
Underneath that you will see your Available physical memory - I estimate it as about 198000. -However please tell me if I am WAY WAY out.

You cannot afford ANYTHING that uses more ram than absolutely necessary.
When you are downloading a large update AND using the computer at the same time, you will be using HDD as ram,. that is the paging file on the hard drive.
Microsoft Security Essentials is renowned for its lack of pop-ups continually asking this and that and its LOW use of resources.
See this it is in fact from the link I sent you ON THIS SITE
Microsoft Security Essentials is 100% free. Free download, free updates, and advertising free. There isn't even a paid option available. Don't let the price fool you, it's a great offering. Based on their former OneCare Antivirus, and utilizing a unified detection database shared with their Forefront enterprise security product, it's feature complete, with great definitions. Above all, it uses fewer system resources than any other antivirus tested (free or paid). Simple to install, easy to use, runs silently in the background. Compatible with Windows XP 32-bit, Windows Vista/Windows 7 32-bit or 64-bit. Many languages offered.

WHATEVER you do do NOT go back to AVG the latest version includes an unwanted system scan and registry cleaner of sorts. It has caused many problems and the whole thing has become bloated.

I have read the detail of the link you sent - but DID you read the answer to the problem -
https://www.microsof...s/HowToMSE.aspx
It was his internet connection.

A large browser history and temp files on Internet explorer can cause all sorts of problems and that is why I suggested you clean the whole of the files with ATF cleaner.

IN MY OPINION attempting to find why updates were failing before attempting to find WHY the computer was suddenly running so slow was the wrong way of tackling this issue.

I do notice that in your audit log you have a number of failed attempts to log on. Not only you, but another user. DO YOU KNOW these were caused by an incorrect password, ie: caps lock on
OR are they unexplained.


I WOULD PREFER that you do uninstall AVAST and Online Armor - not because I particularly have any criticism of the programs, but because they are as I told you on my last post using too many resources. Ylou can see this yourself on Task Manager - click the processes tab, then click the sub tab Mem Usage and it will place them on a rising scale. You can then check all of the Avast and Online Arrmor entries and total them. Which is what I did but from WinAudit.

THAT ALL SAID - it is your computer and you must do as you think fit.
I have checked all of your updates on Win Audit.
You have a number of the Net framework updates installed.

When you post back I will then take you through the procedure to try the updates.

Edited by Macboatmaster, 27 February 2011 - 06:32 PM.

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#47
Macboatmaster

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At the time of that last crash (31/01/2011) - see page 1 - I was running AVG

Many users have reported a system crash resulting from an AVG update published on December 1. The update causes the computer to continually reboot and even booting into Safe Mode will not help. The solution to the AVG crash is to boot from a rescue CD and rename the AVG folder, after which the system should boot normally.


According to AVG, the problem mostly impacts x64 users of Windows 7 - though a search of forums indicates other operating systems may have been impacted as well.It certainly was NOT restricted to 64 bit systems.


AVG claims the problem resulted from improper inclusion of some untested files in the 12-1 update package. This does bring concerns for chain of custody to mind - hopefully something they will take steps to rectify in forthcoming releases

Seems too far removed from 1 Dec to 31 Jan unless you know it was updated then.
MAIN reason for sending it you - AVG - certainly not for me NOW, not that I ever did use it.
My best wishes
Post as soon as you are ready and we can try those updates again - we will do them one at a time on a direct download.
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#48
Macboatmaster

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I have been busy on another thread with a clean installation of XP.
In an attempt to help you further
Please see this.

I have just spent sometime checking again your winaudit log.
I still cannot find a direct reason for the problem.

However after further research see this.
http://forum.avast.c...?action=search2
enter search for windows updates fail and then slow boot

I found reports of Microsoft updates failing, due to Avast, there are a number of such reports with varying explanations, most noticeable was one where the problem was solved as soon as he uninstalled Avast and installed another anti-virus and returned when he reinstalled Avast.
Additionally there are reports of computers being painfully slow on first boot in the morning - due it was found to Avast updates. The complaint was answered by a Avast technical advisor who
stated that the answer was to reschedule the update time.


IT MUST BE STRESSED THAT I MAKE NO COMMENT ON THIS. THE ARTICLE IS ON THE AVAST FORUM. CLEARLY THERE MAY BE MANY REASONS WHY THIS COULD HAPPEN WITHOUT IN ANYWAY IT BEING AN ISSUE WITH AVAST.



QUOTE FROM THE AVAST FORUM
The way the auto update works by default is it will check for updates when you first connect to the internet and then every 4 hours after that. So if you have a broadband/cable connection that is always on, ready very early in the boot-up avast well do its first check 30sec after it detects the presence of the connection .

If your system is a bit of a slow booter then the update check could happen whilst other programs in the startup are loading, you can delay that update check.
The avast virus definitions & engines, auto update is an incremental and CPU% restricted update so it a) shouldn't be large (KB rather than MB) and b) the CPU restriction should mean it doesn't cripple the system during normal use. It is however going to use RAM also so if you are short on RAM that could have an impact.
END OF QUOTE

Additionally.
Do you have the answer to how three logons came to fail - was it caps lock on for password.?

Edited by Macboatmaster, 27 February 2011 - 09:10 PM.

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#49
RonS2

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Thanks for yours.Sorry for delay. This is a very busy week,grandchildren all day today.Quick note now and will hope to come back late evening.

AVAST news really interesting.Will read properly later.

(1) Am ready to go with YOUR new protection system, thank you for your generous reply #46.

(2) Duff logons were possibly me trying to get into ADMINISTRATOR when I was rejected in msconfig. I don't remember ANY Caps Lock incidents.

(3) The other day I booted using f8 and SAFE (can't remember why now -curse old age) and chose ADMINISTRATOR and found that I didn't need a password. Does it always come up like that on SAFE ? Probably because I wanted to reveal security tag, but couldn't find it when I got there !

(4) Control Panel already has 5 entries for .NET FRAMEWORK
2.0 SP2
3.0 SP2
3.5 SP1
4 Client Profile
4 Extended

Couild these have any bearing on the rejection of further updates ?
(5) Machine running sweetly this morning - no delays.

Thank You
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#50
Macboatmaster

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The administrator account on Safe Mode in XP Home is the built in admin account and unless it was configured on setup does not have a password.
That is the same I was telling you to access on Ctrl Alt Delete twice at log on screen when I mistook it for Profressional.
What you should so now is to compare those entries here
2.0 SP2
3.0 SP2
3.5 SP1
4 Client Profile
4 Extended
with your entries for them on Show My update history in Windows Update, then please make a list of the failures.
ensuring that these listed above are shown as successful., clearly there will be dates when these failed I think and more recent dates when they succeeded.
If you then can end up with a list of all failures that REMAIN failures we can go from there.
The quick way of getting there is in IE click Safety on the lower menu bar and then click Windows update. After the usual checking that you have activex installed the Update history is on the left pane.

That
5) Machine running sweetly this morning - no delays.
MAY tend I think, to support the Avast updates when you first boot each day.., as it cannot be windows update you turned it off.
You are best setting that to notify - but I will choose.
It is always better than fully automated, as you can pick the time you wish to download and install them.
However a Safe Mode boot will usually be quicker as it loads only a minimal set of drivers and applications


.

Edited by Macboatmaster, 28 February 2011 - 08:02 AM.

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#51
RonS2

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Hopefully you will have picked up my email now.
The relevant items in Control Panel are all preceeded by "Microsoft .NET Framework".
I find it impossible to relate the updating attempt kbs to those CP items by examining their titles. It may mean a lot more to you but it gives me no pointers. Here are all of their titles . (MS=Microsoft, .N=.NET,FW=Framework)

kb979909
MS .N FW 3.5 SP1 and .N FW 2.0 SP2 Security Update for ,,,,Windows XP x86

kb951847
MS .N FW 3,5 SP1 and .N FW 3,5 Family Update for .N versions 2.0 through 3.5 x86

kb982524
MS .N FW 3.5 SP1 and .N FW 2.0 SP2 Update for .....Windows XP x86

kb983583
Security Update for .N FW 2.0 SP2 and 3.5 SP1 on ..... Windows XP x86


kb982168
MS .N FW 3.5 SP1 update for ..... Windows XP x86

kb2418241
Security update for MS .N FW 2.0 SP2 and 3.5 SP1 on .... and Windows XP x86

kb2416472
Security Update for MS .N FW 4 on .... Windows XP x86

You will have noticed that 3 of them were successfukky updated on 18th and one more on the 20th - Why were they then resubmitted for updating by "Automatic update" on the 22nd,

Note also that kb963707 was succesfully updated on 20th and we never heard of it again. its title is "Update to .N FW 3.5 SP1 for .N FW Assistant 1.0 x86".
The other successful kbs are as you can see on the sheet not apparently related to our 7 dissidents.

The sheet of paper contains ALL entries AFTER 12th Feb. - There are umpteen on the 12th. That's when my local wiz did his work.

Are we able to look at an EVENT LOG or something for the 22nd ? Where is it ?

Had to Reinstall HP in order to scan table just now. Went through OK as did a reinstallation of my Olympus camera stuff, though that paused for a long long time in the last 5% - had me worried.
Am now contemplating reinstalling my TomTom stuff, but am worried that it might overwrite something important already held for TomTom on my machine (there are 2022 files with TomTom in title). Have you any tips for me about tomtom ?

All the 7 unupdateable files seem to retain the same error code for themselves when they run apart from the 25th Feb when they all go haywire , Perhaps the way that I zapped them or whatever has affected their error code,

Edited by RonS2, 01 March 2011 - 09:37 AM.

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#52
Macboatmaster

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I am confused.
I never saw any reference to any TomTom software on the WinAudit. I did not konow you had uninstalled it or even had it in the first place
I certainly wouldnot install anything until we get the updates sorted out.

I realise the time you have taken with the preparation of that chart, but I cannot follow it.
I am sure it must be me.
Please go to the update site.
Select critical updates.
Please then post the KB number and brief title of the updates that are offered.
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#53
RonS2

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Am attaching (I hope) the 9 updates which are currently available. Our 7 + two new ones.

Sorry the print is a bit faint, I can't find a way to darken the font. Hope you can blow it up and read it.

Is there a way to type my piece in (say) notepad and then copy/paste into this editor ?

Will do this in small pieces and then hopefully edit.

OOPS ! TOO BIG - will email you.

As to my chart - sorry my explanation was a lot longer in the piece that got chopped by the editor.
Select the update you want to look at by going down the leftmost column and then trace its update history by following the horizontal line through all the dates in Feb. At ick means it was accepted on that day. A X means it was rejected and underneath the X is a code which tells you what error code was assigned. If the update was presented for update twice in one day and rejected both times it will be shown as X X and will have two error codes.
The key to the error codes is in the two bottom lines of the paper.
Example :- second line down kb979909 accepted 18th Feb but Rejected 22nd Feb code E and rejected twice on 23rdFeb code E both times. Code E = 0x645

Edited by RonS2, 01 March 2011 - 01:51 PM.

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#54
Macboatmaster

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http://www.microsoft...&displaylang=en

1. Start IN normal boot.
Go to the link
2. Disable the anti-virus presuming it is still Avast.
3. Disable the Firewall presuming it is still Online Armor.

Towards the bottom of thepage you will see to "download full package click here."

Do so please.
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#55
RonS2

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Very Sorry M
I don't know what you mean by "Start IN full boot" and go to link.

Do you mean boot up from scratch ? If so what is the link ?

Yes I'm thick .
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#56
Macboatmaster

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I never mentioned the words full boot.
Start windows normally in otherwords not safe mode and if you still have it in clean boot start it in normal boot.
and that is back on the link when you put it in clean boot.
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#57
RonS2

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No Good - I'm lost

I've booted up Turned off Avast and Online Armor

I presume the link you want is to the kb310343 that you gave me back in page 2 ? ? ?

I can find no "Download full packge click here" phrase anywhere in its printed page .

Therefore should I be running it to find it.

Sorry but I did say I was thick ! AND I've just had yet another row with Barclays Banh so am struggling to be rational.

Sorry Pardon
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#58
Macboatmaster

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To download the full package, rather than the bootstrapper, click on the link below:
.NET Framework 3.5 Service Pack 1 (Full Package)


The LINK on my post 54.

Edited by Macboatmaster, 01 March 2011 - 03:59 PM.

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#59
RonS2

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Downloaded & Saved - What Now ?
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#60
Macboatmaster

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I am sorry, I will help you all I can but "Downloaded and saved what now?"
RUN IT - it is an exe file
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