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Fresh Computer build wont turn on


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#46
Macboatmaster

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One of our experts on these matters is Digerati

Here is a quote from one of his posts on this matter

First, ensure the computer is unplugged from the wall. Then you just want to touch bare (not painted) metal. This does not "ground" you, but it puts you and your computer at the "same potential". When there is no "difference of potential", voltage will not jump (arc or spark). And that static discharge is what you want to avoid.

If by some odd chance yours is plastic, touch the bare case of the power supply. Alternatively, you can buy a anti-static wrist-strap and connect it to a ground point on the chassis.

Other precautions - work on a wood cutting board or table - not a carpet or furniture.


Here is another quote from Digerati

WARNING: Keep yourself grounded with the case to ensure there is no static buildup and discharge that might destroy any electrostatic discharge (ESD) sensitive devices. It is important to realize that the "threshold for human awareness" for a static shock is higher than the tolerance of ESD sensitive devices. In other words, you can shock and destroy a CPU, RAM module, or other sensitive device without even knowing there was a static discharge! Use an anti-static wrist-strap or frequently touch bare metal on the case to maintain your body at the same potential as chassis (case) ground

QUOTES POSTED WITH ACKNOWLEDGEMENT TO DIGERATI

As I posted earlier on the thread, it is very dificult to determine if you have damaged a component with a static discharge. The greatest risk comes from actually touching part of the circuit board, rather than the very edges of the component. However as I understand the situation, even that is risky, if you have not followed the first rule.

Edited by Macboatmaster, 23 September 2011 - 08:46 AM.

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#47
Digerati

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Just looking over this thread, I would certainly try another known good power supply. I realize you said you don't have a spare, but it is critical to ensure you are feeding your computer good power. While Corsair PSUs are well known for their excellence, until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will always be some failures. Certainly before buying a new motherboard or CPU, you need to verify your PSU is good. If you cannot find a suitable spare to borrow, you may need to take it to a shop for testing.

While not conclusive (because it does not measure ripple or other anomalies) a PSU tester like the FrozenCPU Ultimate PSU Tester can show if the PSU is within tolerances as noted here:

Posted Image

Carpet is bad enough for generating static, but note just squirming in your clothes or on your chair can generate damaging potentials in your body too. So a strap, IF properly grounded to bare metal of the case, will prevent the buildup in the first place.

Note sure if it was mentioned, but note cases are designed to support 1000s of motherboards. The ATX Form Factor standard only dictated where mounting screws can go, not where they must go. So a case typically has many more mounting places for standoffs than the motherboard has mounting holes. So, with the motherboard removed, you must ensure you only have a standoff in the case where there is a corresponding mounting hole in the board. Any extra is likely to short out the motherboard, and may cause permanent damage to the board, and/or anything attached or connected to, or mounted on the board. :)
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#48
cgarretson

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so if the PSU checks out ok, the worst of my damages are going to result in a new MB? or will i have to replace the CPU/other components? sorry for the delayed posts, in the event that i have to replace any parts this will take awhile as my studies take priority over my build and money is also another factor. will have to wait for financial aid or approval from a credit card of sorts.
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#49
Macboatmaster

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It is impossible to say really.
Presuming the PSU is OK, by testing professionally or by borrowing another one - suitable rating of course.
Then I think your best course of action maybe, having checked as Digerati has advised, the mounting points, to contact the motherboard manufacturer, or perhaps firstly the supplier and take it from there.
If of course you realise that it is your error, then the only real option is to buy the replacement.

Going right back to the start of the thread

THIS

ust got the parts today, assembled, double checked, flip the power, and all the fans spin(5) and the front LED fan lights come on, only to spin for 5 revolutions only to just turn off and power down. Whats the deal?

on your first post

and this

I was confusing the PCI-E cords which were 6+2 with the 4+4 ATX2 power cord. Right when i noticed what i did the cup fans powered up and the 2 LED's at the bottom stayed lit (normal) but i've yet to get the BIOS to come up on my screen via VGA cord or HDMI. So far so good, if i can get the BIOS to come up I'll be in business.

on your post 18

and finally this

edit pt.2* so i bypassed the production validation, and i got my computer running. was able to get online and downloaded drivers and utilities for my MB, GFX, SFX, DVD/B-Ray players, even restarted a few times for it all and it worked perfectly. then it recently shut off without prompting or explanation, what would the cause of this be?

on your post 26

tend in all honesty to suggest it is your error, as you are now if I am correct at the stage where it will not even power on, on a test installation.

That all said, there is no way anyone can be sure without having the computer in front of them and the facilities to test either with professional test equipment or by replacement of the PSU, then the CPU, then the motherboard.

Whatever the situation, I know that everyone who has posted on your thread will wish you the best of luck.
If it is any consolation to you, most, if not all of us have been there, done it and learnt the hard way, when we started.
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#50
cgarretson

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after buying a new MB the problem persists, this only gives me more evidence that the PSU is the cause of this problem. after talking to another person with a problem related to mine, he claimed that his PSU was faulty via manufacture and bought a replacement and it worked fine. also the red switch for US/GB wattage, however i dont have that option on my PSU. he recommends buying a new one with a max power supply of 1000W with a multi-rail split rather than a single rail. can anyone confirm or deny these claims and/or give me suggestions with a different/new power supply if indeed my current one is faulty?

*sorry for the late reply, i told you(everyone) i wouldnt forget :P *
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#51
Digerati

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he recommends buying a new one with a max power supply of 1000W with a multi-rail split rather than a single rail. can anyone confirm or deny these claims and/or give me suggestions with a different/new power supply if indeed my current one is faulty?

I don't see any claims.

1000W is WAY overkill for most people.

There is no real advantage to multi-rail PSUs. In fact, multi-rail PSUs are more complex and therefore use more parts and therefore have a greater chance of something going wrong. 20 years ago, the idea of multi-rail was to to provide isolation between the rails but that never panned out to having any advantage. One of the biggest problems with multi-rail is they must reserve some power on each rail, even if not used. With a single rail, all power is available.

Here’s my canned text on sizing and selecting the right PSU:

Use the eXtreme PSU Calculator Lite to determine your minimum and recommended power supply unit (PSU) requirements. Plan ahead and plug in all the hardware you think you might have in 2 or 3 years (extra drives, bigger or 2nd video card, more RAM, etc.). Be sure to read and heed the notes at the bottom of the calculator page. I recommend setting Capacitor Aging to 10% and both TDP and system load to 100%. These steps ensure the supply has adequate head room for stress free (and perhaps quieter) operation, as well as future hardware demands. Research your video card and pay particular attention to the power supply requirements for your card listed on your video card maker's website. If not listed, check a comparable card (same graphics engine and RAM) from a different maker. The key specifications, in order of importance are:

  • Current (amperage or amps) on the +12V rail,
  • Efficiency,
  • Total wattage.
Don’t try to save a few dollars by getting a cheap supply! Digital electronics, including CPUs, RAM, and today's advanced graphics cards, need clean, stable power. A good, well chosen supply will provide years of service and upgrade wiggle room. Look for power supply brands listed under the "Reputable" column of PC Mech's PSU Reference List. Another excellent read is Tom’s Hardware, Who’s Who In Power supplies: Brands, Labels, And OEMs. Note that some case retailers “toss in” a generic or inadequate PSU just to make the case sale. Be prepared to “toss out” that supply for a good one with sufficient power.

PSUs are inherently inefficient. Most PSUs have an efficiency rating of around 70%. This means for every 100 watts of power a PSU draws from the wall, only 70 watts is delivered to the motherboard, with the rest wasted in the form of heat. The best supplies are 85 to 90% efficient, and as expected, cost more. A quality supply with an efficiency rating equal to or greater than 80% requires a better design using higher quality (tighter tolerances) components. To ensure a quality, efficient PSU, select one that is 80 PLUS certified and is EnergyStar Compliant. 80 PLUS certified PSUs are required to have fairly linear efficiencies. This is important to ensure the PSU is running at or near peak efficiency regardless the load or power demands. Non-linear PSUs typically are most efficient when the load is in a narrow range between 70 and 90% of the PSU’s capacity and the efficiency may drop dramatically above and below those amounts.

Too big of a PSU hurts nothing but your budget. Your computer will draw from the PSU only what it needs, not what the PSU is capable of delivering. If a computer needs 300 watts it will draw 300 watts regardless if the PSU is a 400W, 650W, or 1000W PSU. In turn, the PSU, regardless its size, will draw from the wall only what it needs to support the computer. In this example, it will draw 300 watts, plus another 45 – 90 watts, depending on the PSU’s inefficiency.

As noted, the eXtreme Calculator determines minimum and recommended requirements. If the calculator (with the changes I suggested) recommends a 400 watt minimum, a quality 400W supply will serve you just fine. However, a quality 550W – 600W supply will have, among other things, larger heat sinks to dissipate potentially more heat. It might have a larger fan too. The 400W supply will run most of the time closer to capacity, while the larger supply will be loafing along, rarely breaking a sweat. To help the smaller heat sinks get rid of the wasted 80 watts (20% of 400) of heat, the fan in the 400W supply may need to run full speed, while the fan in the larger supply, with bigger sinks just loafs along too – but in near silence. Also, it is typical for manufacturers to use higher quality parts, design, and manufacturing techniques in their higher power supplies.

Note: Capacitor Aging. All electronics “age” over time. Electrons flowing through components bang around and create friction and heat causing wear and tear, altering the electrical characteristics of the device. Over time, this weakens the device resulting in eventual failure. Power supplies have always suffered profoundly from aging effects resulting in a loss of capacity. In a large part, this is due to capacitor aging though in recent years, capacitor technologies have improved in that area. The best PSUs use the best (and most expensive) capacitors which suffer less from aging effects than older capacitor types. If planning on buying a new, high-end PSU, setting capacitor aging to 10% may result in a more realistic recommendation. However, headroom “buffer” will be significantly reduced. You can expect your PSU to last 5 years or longer. Since it is better to buy too big rather than too small, and since it is hard to predict what your power requirements will be in 3 years, using 30% for Capacitor Aging ensures you have enough headroom for virtually any upgrade.

Don't forget to budget for a good UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). Surge and spike protectors are inadequate and little more than fancy, expensive extension cords.


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#52
cgarretson

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would you recommend a single rail(seems best given im ill experienced in building a PC) 750W Corsair bronze 80 certified? also would the 800 gaming series prove better, seeing as im more into the gaming aspect of computers? or is there much of a difference between them? however the guide that you presented me with also advised against the whole "gaming" phrasing just to draw in inexperienced builders like myself. the calculator gave me about 695watts so im going to 750-850W just to be on the safe side.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139025 (800 Gaming Series 80 PLUS Certified )$125
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139021 (TX750 Enthusiast 80 PLUS Bronze Certified) $105
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139010 (HX750 Professional 80 PLUS Silver Certified) $150

Im just looking for some guidance as i can pick these up at best buy if i need to do so. Under the $200 is best for my budget. What do you recommend based on the details given?
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#53
Digerati

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Any of those PSUs will do fine. The Silver 80 Plus cost more, but is more efficient so may pay for itself (it's higher price anyway) in lower electricity costs over time.

If you used my settings to get that 695W, then that includes a nice buffer so more than 750W is not necessary, but does not hurt.

Note I am not saying there is anything about multi-rail systems that would cause me to recommend against getting one. I am just saying there is no real benefit to multi-rail PSUs in PCs. In other electronic devices, yes. But not in a PC. So they just add complexity, more potential for failures (due to more parts) and higher costs - with no benefit.

And for the record, I am not a fan of modular PSUs either. They allow for a tidier interior but, modular supplies,
  • Cost more,
  • Exposed/unused connections get dirty, which can affect electrical connectivity with future use,
  • Connectors can get worn out or broken, which can affect electrical connectivity,
  • Unused cables must be stored somewhere, potentially for years without getting lost or damaged,
  • There is no industry standard for modular connections so each maker tends to use their own proprietary design, thus:
  • Modular cables from different PSUs may not be compatable,
  • Storing and separating cables from several modular PSUs can be a burden,
  • Replacing lost proprietary cables may be expensive, if possible at all.
What often happens then to avoid loss, damage or mix-ups is the spare cables are then bundled and tossed in the bottom of the case, collecting dust and not being so tidy. So a case that offers better cable management and a wired PSU may be something to consider. That said, with a little care, none of the above may matter in terms of the PSU supplying good power, but it still is something to consider.
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#54
cgarretson

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ok im currently between the HX750 and the 800GS gaming series. performance-wise would they be identical as the power required would be less than the maximum? the 800GS appeals to me as i can get that now rather than waiting a few days for it. also i will be picking up a PSU tester so i will not have to encounter this disappointment again.

*edit* also i use zip ties as best as i can to avoid clutter on the inside/outside

Edited by cgarretson, 09 March 2012 - 03:26 PM.

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#55
cgarretson

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*update* all of my components are working and updates are going through fine. i had to settle with a corsair 700W "gaming series" -.- but other than that its working fine. one of my fans is annoying me with its rattling but only cosmetic. Thanks to everyone who helped me through this build that took almost a year to complete due to financial restraints, you guys are awesome ^.^
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#56
phillpower2

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i had to settle with a corsair 700W "gaming series" -.-
Good choice, it would have been that or the TX750 for me.
you guys are awesome ^.^
Shucks :blush:


For what they cost I would replace any noisy system fan in case it fails, apart from that you have put a lot of work into your build, enjoy it and don`t let it be spoiled by an irritant.
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#57
Digerati

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Which fan? If the CPU, Chipset, PSU or graphics card fan, that should be replaced immediately. Replacing a case fan is not an immediate concern, unless the fan is not moving enough air.
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#58
phillpower2

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Which fan? If the CPU, Chipset, PSU or graphics card fan, that should be replaced immediately. Replacing a case fan is not an immediate concern, unless the fan is not moving enough air.


I concur with Bill, I never mentioned replacing the CPU fan as you were not specific as to what fan was noisy, if the CPU fan is noisy then the entire assembly should be returned and replaced.
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#59
cgarretson

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i found out that the annoying fan was actually the CPU fan, however, i found out that it was the CPU fan cord brushing up against it causing this noise. after a quick manuvering of the cords it makes no sounds, runs cool, and no issues at all. once again thank you everyone who helped me out with all of my issues and compensating for my lack of computer knowledge. :D
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#60
Digerati

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CPU fan cord brushing up against it causing this noise. after a quick manuvering of the cords it makes no sounds, runs cool, and no issues at all

That's great. I am glad that was all that was wrong and that you got it sorted out. Note that makes a case for good cable management in the case. Look at all your cables, then route and tie them back to minimize their impact on your desired front-to-back air flow through the case.
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