[bannerdog]

Hello,

I've built perhaps a dozen systems over the years, but it has been a while.

I just put a system together, went to install the overlay that covers the motherboard rear outputs, and found I could not get it to fit.

It appears that it might require installation from the "inside" (i.e., sliding the motherboard back, and placing the overlay in).

As I said, it's been a while, but I don't recall ever having to install sucn an overlay on the inside.

Can that be right?

A further problem.

Apparently, a problem occured when I screwed my mother.

That is to say, my motherboard.

When I went to unscrew the motherboard, in order to slide it, I found I was unable to remove one of the screws.

I think it is the same size as the other screws (not missized). However, I'll try to confirm that.

Any experieces with that? I don't think I can acces the standoff, even with needlenose pliers (in the event that it is spinning with the screw), but I'll look into it.

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Hi bannerdog

I just put a system together, went to install the overlay that covers the motherboard rear outputs, and found I could not get it to fit.

It appears that it might require installation from the "inside" (i.e., sliding the motherboard back, and placing the overlay in).

If you mean the input/output backplate as pictured below then from memory I have only ever fitted them from the inside and before fitting the MB, the plates have a recess which fits into aperture so that the spring affect of the port retainers does not push the plate outwards, I have also heard theories that the contact of the plate with both the ports and PC case assists with grounding the system, I cannot however confirm this.

When I went to unscrew the motherboard, in order to slide it, I found I was unable to remove one of the screws.

I think it is the same size as the other screws (not missized).

This is slightly confusing, did you also fit the MB previously, the reason that I ask is because some (if not all) brand names and professional system builders put a post or security screw to hold down the MB so that they can identify if the system has been tampered with in any way, if the MB was pre-fitted then I am curious as to what has happened to the I/O backplate, how was it removed without causing damage, was one ever fitted!
It is possible to remove these security fixings but great care must be taken to avoid damage to the MB, where is the post, in an awkward corner such as at the rear of the HDD housing by any chance!

[phillpower2]

Hi bannerdog

I just put a system together, went to install the overlay that covers the motherboard rear outputs, and found I could not get it to fit.

It appears that it might require installation from the "inside" (i.e., sliding the motherboard back, and placing the overlay in).

If you mean the input/output backplate as pictured below then from memory I have only ever fitted them from the inside and before fitting the MB, the plates have a recess which fits into aperture so that the spring affect of the port retainers does not push the plate outwards, I have also heard theories that the contact of the plate with both the ports and PC case assists with grounding the system, I cannot however confirm this.

When I went to unscrew the motherboard, in order to slide it, I found I was unable to remove one of the screws.

I think it is the same size as the other screws (not missized).

This is slightly confusing, did you also fit the MB previously, the reason that I ask is because some (if not all) brand names and professional system builders put a post or security screw to hold down the MB so that they can identify if the system has been tampered with in any way, if the MB was pre-fitted then I am curious as to what has happened to the I/O backplate, how was it removed without causing damage, was one ever fitted!
It is possible to remove these security fixings but great care must be taken to avoid damage to the MB, where is the post, in an awkward corner such as at the rear of the HDD housing by any chance!

[Digerati]

I just put a system together, went to install the overlay that covers the motherboard rear outputs, and found I could not get it to fit.

It appears that it might require installation from the "inside"

That is called the rear panel "I/O Shield" and they have always snapped in from the inside. This is because the bent tines are purposely tensioned (spring loaded) to press and make solid contact with each connector, AND the case, to create a good mechanical connection - essential for a good electrical connection - thus creating a good electrical ground, thus "shielding" the connection from interference. If the I/O shield snapped in from the outside, it could accidentally pop-out.

I have also heard theories that the contact of the plate with both the ports and PC case assists with grounding the system, I cannot however confirm this.

I can and that is absolutely true, for the reason I stated above.

Why can't you get the screw out? Is the head stripped? If the standoff is spinning, you may have to drill it out from the bottom (back side) of the case if you can access that mounting point. Otherwise, you will have to drill the screw out from inside the case. In any event, a steady hand and a thorough cleaning afterwards is necessary. You don't need any metal filings in your electronics.

[iammykyl]

If you can access the end of the standoff on the back of the Motherboard mounting plate, you could put a dab of epoxy glue on it to hold it in place or some cold solder. when set this may be strong enough to hold in place.

Edited by iammykyl, 27 August 2011 - 08:41 AM.

[Digerati]

If you can access the end of the standoff on the back of the Motherboard mounting plate

Maybe - depending on its location and the case's framework.

I will go along with the epoxy, if very careful, but not the solder. With the standoff in the case, and apparently still screwed to the motherboard, both the case and motherboard would act as a heatsink - meaning you would have to leave a hot iron in place a long time to get the standoff hot enough so the solder will bond to it. That puts too much heat in close proximity to the motherboard for too long of time. Not a good idea with circuit boards.

[bannerdog]

I appreciate all the feedback.

I am surprised at how much good feedback I've gotten so quickly.

As far as mounting from the inside, I must have always done so without thinking about it. It was never an issue.

As to the confusion:

As I always have, I purchased the case, power supply, motherboard, processor, memory, video board, etc, as seperate components, and "built" the system.

So, I put the motherboard (and standoffs) into the case.

The standoffs are definitely correctly placed.

Each one matches a corresponding motherboard hole perfectly.

Something just apparently went wrong when I screwed one of the screws into the standoff (through the motherboard hole, of course).

The reason I tried to unscrew each screw was in order to slide the motherboard so that I could insert the backplate (thanks philpower2 for the terminology - though I didn't note a picture).

I'll post again if I resolve it.


Thanks.

[bannerdog]

Perhaps the better term is "I/O Shield" (thanks Digerati).


You know, I just looked at the motherboard installation instructions.

They are rather a joke.

1) They actually have a (mostly illegible) diagram showing that memory should not be installed backwards (with the notch mismatched). What would a person do? Cram it until it broke?


2) They explain that the processor must be installed in order for the motherboard to work (say, maybe that's what was wrong the the first 5 or 6 systems I built! ).


3) The instructions say nothing at all about connecting power, control, and monitoring cables/connectors to the motherboard. It's not really needed (there is a motherboard diagram, so all connectors can be located), but if "speaking" to a person who might try to put memory in backwards, it seems they might mention "connecting" the motherboard.

4) The instructions say nothing about the I/O shield. Sure, it is obvious that it should be installed. However, a reminder to do so before screwing the motherboard down would be nice.

Edited by bannerdog, 27 August 2011 - 11:46 AM.

[phillpower2]

Hi bannerdog thanks for the clarification as I now understand it the stand off has cross threaded in the case, as previously suggested a good strong epoxy adhesive on the underside of the stand off and hope it holds well enough to be able to remove the MB screw.
As for the picture I don`t know what happened to it, it was attached but now I cannot upload anything more than 100K I will have to contact a member of Admin good luck and yes please let us know how you get on.

[Digerati]

1) They actually have a (mostly illegible) diagram showing that memory should not be installed backwards (with the notch mismatched). What would a person do? Cram it until it broke?

You would be surprised at the number of users who do indeed force RAM in backwards, or the wrong type (and thus mis-keyed) RAM into those slots.

The I/O shield becomes part of the case, once installed. I just looked at two motherboard installation manuals (both from Gigabyte) and neither mentioned the shield. However, I looked at the case manuals for an Antec and a Lian Li and they did mention the shield.

[iammykyl]

If you can access the end of the standoff on the back of the Motherboard mounting plate, you could put a dab of epoxy glue on it to hold it in place or some cold solder. when set this may be strong enough to hold in place.

Hi all,

Some information, cold solder.

http://www.ehow.com/...old-solder.html

Very useful stuff, have successfully used it to repair broken traces on boards.

[bannerdog]

Resolution:




Apparently what occured is:

1) I purchased all system components (case, power supply, motherboard, memory, CPU, etc), and assembled a system.

2) The motherboard (call it MB1) did not work as advertised. I obtained an RMA, and purchased another motherboard (MB2).

3) I removed MB1, placing the standoff screws into a small sealable plastic bag.

4) I installed MB2. However, I apparently grabbed the wrong small plastic bag, which was lying next to the correct one. The screws in that bag screwed in ok, but with a little difficulty.

It seems they were the wrong size, and damaged some of the standoffs.

I did manage to get the stuck screw out (that I originally posted about). I actually had problems with several screws.

In some cases, attempting to unscrew a screw turned the standoff, unscrewing it, and I ended up with several screws attached to the motherboard when I lifted it out of the case (including the one I originally posted about) However, they were easily removed since I could then reach both the standoff and the screw).

Now, I must obtain a new set of stand-offs and compatible screws. Rather annoying to be stopped by lack of a dollar's worth of hardware.

[iammykyl]

Great to hear you did manage to get the MObo out.

Let use know the final outcome and if you need any more help, let us know.

[Digerati]

I am confused. The threads on motherboard standoffs should all be the same as that is dictated by the ATX Form Factor standard. If different cases used different thread patterns, then the case makers would have to supply the standoffs - not the motherboard makers. Some standoffs are taller than others, so you have to make sure all are the same height to avoid stressing the motherboard, but the threads should be the same. So I don't see how several were stripped.

Just to make sure all reading are on the same page, the brass part is the standoff and it screws into the case. The motherboard sits on top of the standoffs to give clearance for all the component leads protruding from the bottom side of the motherboard. Then the motherboard is secured to the standoffs by the motherboard screws. Standoffs must be screwed in pretty tight so they don't come loose when unscrewing the motherboard screw.

[bannerdog]

Actually, I have several different flavors of standoffs (fresh, never used, not stripped).

They differ in all of the following:

1) Diameter of threaded section (inclined plane wrapped helically around a pole) which screws into the motherboard.

2) Length of the threaded section metioned in #1

3) The screws which they will accept (i.e., they accept screws with different slopes/widths of inclined plane).


I can say absolutely that they are not standardized to a single standard.

Some of the standoffs may be old, but there are at least two different types purchased within the last year.


I think everyone knows what a standoff is: two groups of fighting cowboys, neither able to make progress against the other.


I did have some difficulty fitting so many cowboys between the case and the motherboard.

8 standoffs * 2 groups per standoff * 9 cowboys per group = 144 cowboys. A gross situation.


P.S. In my experience, standoffs DO come with the case, not the motherboard - for the very reason that they differ.

Edited by bannerdog, 28 August 2011 - 11:05 PM.