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#61
SueTD

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I have never taken the back off before so it is probably very dusty. My son will be here this evening or tomorrow evening and I feel more comfortable having him follow the instructions so that I don't mess up the computer more than it already is! He would also be more likely to understand those instructions about burning an ISO image.

Besides the dust issue, you wanted to know about the Hard Drive. According to the original Packing Slip (I have everything that came with the computer in a box), it says 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM).

Also on the packing slip, it says I have: 16X DVD ROM, 48X CDRW, PowerDVD Software Decoding for DVD drives, and 3.5in Floppy Drive.
Dimension 4700 Series, Intel Pentium 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3.0GHz), 6ZN5761. 512MB DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz.

So, with this info, other than to check if it is dusty inside, do you still need me to remove anything or get additional information about the system and/or hard drive?
Thanks for your help.
Sue
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#62
Macboatmaster

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The ISO images is simple.
Download the file from Seagate.
Save it to your computer.

Download the BurnCDDC open it and you will immediately see the top box where you browse to where the ISO file is.
When you have that in the top box

Follow the instructions and the program will tell you to insert the blank CD write.
Do so and follow the instructions again and you will have your ISO image

Re the drive and the make - Seatools will run in basic mode on any drive. It will only run in full mode on a Seagate or Maxtor drive. which is now Seagate,

Run it anyway please If the drive is that make it will accept the full diagnostic mode.


Re the cleaning, disconnect all leads from the computer.

Work on a non static surface. You do not want the computer case on a carpet, particularly a man made fibre.

A table or the kitchen working surface is ideal. Lay it on some suitable protection as you wish.

Open the case.

Touch the bear metal case with both hands. That is the bear metal inside the case. This will ground any static in your body.

Look at the CPU that is the Central Processing unit. It will be on the motherboard which is the main circuit board on the base of the other side of the computer, in otherwords you will be looking down at it.

On top of the CPU which you will not actually be able to see will be a fan. Very likely you will see that the fan is seated on top of aluminium cooling fins.

Your first task is to examine visually the fan and fins. DO NOT unclip anything or disturb anything. You may move cables, they will probably be grey colured and a ribbon cable aside GENTLY if necessary.

If the fan or the fins are dirty, GENTLY disturb the dust, a fine soft brush, such as your makeup brush is ideal.
Do NOT use the household vacuum cleaner.

Be careful not to disturb the two wires to the fan., as they not only are visible at the side of the fan, but you will no doubt see them running underneath the fan blades.

When you have dislodged the dust, you may then move it gently again to the base of the case., be especially careful when doing so that you do not damage any of the fine small components on the motherboard.

If your son knows about using an air duster spray, do NOT allow this to spin the fan blades, the high speed may destroy the fan bearing bush.

DO NOT use the garage air pressure line or any sort of air bed compressor.

Repeat this general cleaning as necessary on any case fans and indeed the whole area of the case.
EACH TIME YOU go back in the case to start any part of this procedure again, play safe and discharge the static in your body.
This is vitally important when removing components, but is a very wise precaution even when only doing the cleaning I have outlined to you.


IF you can see the make of hard drive when you have the case open, it would help. DO NOT however remove the drive to look unless you or your son have read the pages of the manual I sent the link for and YOU FEEL confident. to do so.

NOTE
I am offline from NOW until about 1900 hrs tomorrow UK time . It is NOW 2338 UK time.
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#63
happyrock

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AFTER YOU GET DONE CLEANING...
and running the hard drive testing tools and the drive passes the tests...
we will attempt to repair windows...
Please download ARCDC.exe from Artellos.com.
  • Double click ARCDC.exe
  • Follow the dialog until you see 6 options. ..pick The Windows version of the system you need it for
  • You will be prompted with a Terms of Use by Microsoft, please accept.
  • You will see a few dos screens flash by, this is normal.
  • Next you will be able to choose to add extra files if you want...not sure then you don't need any
  • The last window will allow you to burn the disk using BurnCDCC
Your ISO is located on your desktop.

if you don't have a burning program that will burn .ISO files go here and get burncdcc ..a small FAST no frills iso
burning program...

NOTE...do not put a blank cd in until burncdcc opens the tray for you
1. Start by clicking on BurnCDCC.exe
2. Browse to the ISO file you want to burn on cd/dvd ....in this case its XPRC
3. Select the ISO file
4. click on Start
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#64
SueTD

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When I turn the computer back on, am I supposed to go in Safe Mode or choose something else? I am not sure the computer will even run in any mode long enough to download anything.

Prior to trying to use the reinstallation CD, when I turned the computer on, it turned itself off after a couple of seconds and gave me a blue screen. That's why we were doing the repair instructions with the CD but it froze in the middle of that too.

I will be trying the cleaning instructions and then check back after work tomorrow to see what you say about the mode to start the computer in when I turn it back on or what to do if the computer won't stay on.

Sue
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#65
Macboatmaster

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1. If the case of that computer has never been opened - that is your first task.
As my colleague happyrock said

AFTER YOU GET DONE CLEANING...
and running the hard drive testing tools and the drive passes the tests...


2. You do NOT have to download it to this computer - you download it, make it on the CD, on another computer, and run it on this computer.

3. I appreciate this

Prior to trying to use the reinstallation CD, when I turned the computer on, it turned itself off after a couple of seconds and gave me a blue screen. That's why we were doing the repair instructions with the CD but it froze in the middle of that too.


We are therefore, establishing if the possible build up of dust in the cooling fins of the CPU and on the fans MAYBE a cause.
When you have inspected and cleaned - LEAVE the side of the case off WHILE you connect and switch on and ensure the fans are running.
If the ONE on the CPU - location as described is NOT running - shut down immediately.


Then we are ensuring that the HDD is good, as far as we can do.

4. When you have completed those tests if the HDD test fails post the results please.
If it passes try a boot to Windows - normal mode.
If that does not work try a boot to Safe Mode.

To summarise
Clean as necessary

Run the disk check
If it fails post the results - including an indication of how bad the build up of dust was.

If it passes try booting to Windows - normal and safe mode
Post results and as before please indicate situation re cleaning.
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#66
SueTD

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Sorry to be confused so easily with all the computer stuff, but which of the instructions is the HDD test? I got the side off the Dell and used a little brush to help get out all the clumps of dust. There were so many instructions in the last couple of posts that I don't want to confuse the order of things. I definately need beginner type instructions!
Thanks
Sue
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#67
Macboatmaster

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1.

To summarise
Clean as necessary

Run the disk check
If it fails post the results - including an indication of how bad the build up of dust was.

If it passes try booting to Windows - normal and safe mode
Post results and as before please indicate situation re cleaning.



Although the posts were quite detailed, I cannot see the difficulty - however please explain more and I will of course help.

2.
Were the CPU cooling fins blocked with dust?
Were the fans heavily covered with dust ?
Are the fans spinning?

We are therefore, establishing if the possible build up of dust in the cooling fins of the CPU and on the fans MAYBE a cause.
When you have inspected and cleaned - LEAVE the side of the case off WHILE you connect and switch on and ensure the fans are running.
If the ONE on the CPU - location as described is NOT running - shut down immediately.


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#68
SueTD

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Both fans are running when I turn on the computer.

I got a black screen with a message that said:

Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt:
System32\Drivers\Ntfs.sys

You can attempt to repair this file by starting Windows Setup using the original Setup CD-ROM.
Select 'r' at the first screen to start repair.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do realize that there were many detailed instructions for me but I still don't know which one to follow. When you say to "run disk check", is that the instructions about the ISO images and I should follow the instructions to download the file from Seagate on my other computer to burn a CD? If not, then I don't really know how to run the disk check.

Do you think this problem is too complicated for me and I should take the computer somewhere to be fixed?
Sue
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#69
Macboatmaster

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Do you think this problem is too complicated for me and I should take the computer somewhere to be fixed?




NO - you are doing very well and I certainly do NOT at this stage recommend you take it somewhere - if by that - you mean "Where you will have to pay"
Why pay when our help is free.


The only aspect I would ask, and I do appreciate how difficult this is for you - could you try and answer our queries.
The best way is to type your reply and then, before you click on POST, check against the post from us that you have covered the points.
That will of course save us both time.

Were the CPU cooling fins blocked with dust?
Were the fans heavily covered with dust ?


The reason I ask is, that if the CPU cooling fins etc were HEAVILY CHOKED with dust = that MAY account for some of the problems as I outlined before in my post 65

Prior to trying to use the reinstallation CD, when I turned the computer on, it turned itself off after a couple of seconds and gave me a blue screen. That's why we were doing the repair instructions with the CD but it froze in the middle of that too.We are therefore, establishing if the possible build up of dust in the cooling fins of the CPU and on the fans MAYBE a cause.


I will reply to the rest of your queries on your last post separately - so that you do not feel overwhelmed by the length of my post.


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#70
Macboatmaster

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As I said on my last post - now to deal with your other query

When you say to "run disk check", is that the instructions about the ISO images and I should follow the instructions to download the file from Seagate on my other computer to burn a CD?


YES PLEASE



The ISO images is simple.
Download the file from Seagate.
Save it to your computer.

Download the BurnCDDC open it and you will immediately see the top box where you browse to where the ISO file is.
When you have that in the top box

Follow the instructions and the program will tell you to insert the blank CD write.
Do so and follow the instructions again and you will have your ISO image



THEN if the drive FAILS post the details of the failure message please.
Remember to run short test FIRST and then FULL TEST - if it will run the full.


IF THE DRIVE PASSES - please go to the post from my colleague happrock - that is post 63 and make that CD.
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#71
SueTD

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I wanted to reply so you don't think I gave up eventhough I haven't had a chance to work on it yet! I have had a couple of really busy days at work and my daughter came home from college for a few days. Now we are on our way out again for the evening but I will definitely follow the instructions first thing in the morning.

To answer the question about the fans: Both fans have cases around them but I can see them through the vents in the back of the unit. When I took off the side panel, clumps of dust and dog hair were sort of floating around all over, which I gently cleaned out with the makeup brush. There is a lot of dust on the fan blades, but not clumps of dog hair like what was inside so it doesn't seem to impede the spinning. We recently chopped up all our old floor tile and put down new tile through the house. I am still cleaning dust out of every where! Are the blades on the larger or smaller of the two fans what you are calling the CPU fins?

Sue
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#72
Macboatmaster

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Thank you for taking the trouble to update us.

Once again - please know that you are doing well.

YOUR perseverance is admirable.


I sent you on a previous post the link to your computer manual. - post 59

It shows you the layout of your motherboard

The CPU is on the motherboard - it is Nothing to do with a FAN in the CASING itself.

Look at the manual.

Here is an image of a motherboard it is NOT yours, but it will provide you with a starting guidance.

THE CPU FAN and cooling fins are to the right of the image - you can see the aluminium cooling fins below the fan.

The only other fan in this image is a case fan - the one in the casing.

NOTE AGAIN please -NOT your motherboard or computer case, but it should help.

ALSO do NOT unfasten ANY clips or disturb any component - just gently remove the dust. IF the fins are blocked - you will have to obtain an air duster spray to remove the dust with any real degree of efficiency. REMEMBER please my previous caution - DO NOT let the air duster spray - spin the fan blades.
Posted Image

IMAGE included with acknowledgement to Troy and Artellos - Staff members of GeekstoGo


THE MOST important aspect is as I said on my previous post the cooling fins - BELOW the CPU fan - those are the cooling fins for the airflow from the fan to reach the CPU - central processing unit.

If you have NOT checked those you need to do so. Especially in view of this

When I took off the side panel, clumps of dust and dog hair were sort of floating around all over, which I gently cleaned out with the makeup brush. There is a lot of dust on the fan blades


If those fan blades had a heavy buld up of dust, I can assure you the CPU cooling fins very likely do have.
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#73
happyrock

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the fin's are under the fan...
you can use wooden toothpicks to scape between them to dislodge any crud...it really affects their ability to get rid of heat...
there are some variations for the fins but they all do the same job...
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#74
SueTD

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I used the dust remover and there was a lot of dust that came out.

I followed the instructions on the SeaTools site and burned a CD on my laptop. Then I put the CD in the bad computer, but it didn't recognize anything was in the drive. I turned the computer off and back on because I saw that I could choose F12 to enter a Boot Menu. I thought maybe I could get it to boot from the CD from that screen. That doesn't work; it says selected boot device not available. There is an option for Hard Drive Diagnostics but the up down arrows don't move to highlight anything except the Onboard or USB CD-ROM Drive choice.

The instructions on SeaTools for troubleshooting said to check the boot sequence, so I went into setup to check that and the first one listed is 1. Onboard or USB CD-ROM Drive. I do have two drives. I tried both but back when we were running the reinstallation CD, it booted from the top drive, which is the one I tried first.

After running the program to burn the ISO image, it did say it completed but I thought maybe I did something wrong so I tried another blank CD and tried it again. This CD is not recognized by my other computer either. Maybe there is another step I skipped?

Please tell me what I am doing wrong!
Sue

Edited by SueTD, 10 December 2011 - 02:48 PM.

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#75
Macboatmaster

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If it was NOT for the fact that the other CD the reinstallation CD ran - I would say the extreme amount of dust in the fins has resulted in a overheat of the CPU or the genral dust and that on the case fan, has damaged other hardware relying on the case fan.

THIS MAY still be the situation.

Will the reinstallation CD run., as we know that did on the earlier occasion.

I suspect the ISO Seatools as you say it will not run on the other computer.

ALL I can say is - Download the ISO image for DOS - NOT the one for Windows as will NOT run unles you are IN Windows.
Burn it using the ISO burner sent to you by ME and by happyrock
I sent it for Seatools , my colleague sent it for the one you are, hopefully going to do next.

YOU are downloading the ISO are you and NOT the floppy disc creator.
Floppy Diskette Creator

See my post 60

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