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Building a PC - Need a little help!


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#1
Sal.

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I'm building my first pc and think what I've gone for is all pretty right and will fit together nicely. However I'm a bit clueless over the PSU and a couple of other things. I haven't bought all parts yet but this is what I've gone with so far. I just need someone to give it a check and hopefully tell me it's all fine.

I used a PSU calculator and added, what was suggested (50-100 watt) and came up a little short of 650 watt so I bought one of them. Here's my list:


Corsair Memory Obsidian 650D Mid-Tower Black Case
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811139006


ASUS 1155 SABERTOOTH P67 REV 3.0 S/L
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131702


2x Corsair CMZ8GX3M1A1600C10 Vengeance Memory Module
http://www.newegg.co...Z8GX3M1A1600C10


Intel Sandybridge i7-2600K Unlocked Core i7 Quad-Core Processor (3.40GHz, 8MB Cache, Socket 1155)
http://www.newegg.co...bridge i7-2600K


Corsair Memory TX650 V2 650W ATX Enthusiast Series
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139020


EVGA GeForce GTX 570 797MHz 1280MB PCI-Express HDMI SC
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130595


Will the power supply make that much of a difference if I am wrong? What could potentially happen if it's too high/low? Will I need to cool this system in any particular way? The case comes with fans and I'm not looking to over clock it.
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#2
Macboatmaster

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Sal
Welcome to GeekstoGo.

Firstly here is an excellent guide to building your own computer, written and prepared, with images by two of your Staff members - Troy and Artellos

http://www.geekstogo...r-own-computer/


Now to your actual system and to answer your last question first.
There is no such problem as a PSU that is too "high" - eg. too great a wattage. It WILL ONLY supply what is demanded.
If the wattage and vitally important the amperage on the 12 volt rail was insufficient that is a problem. AS when full demand was made you would be driving the PSU to its limits.

YOUR 650 watt has the following
Output+3.3V@25A, +5V@25A, +12V@53A, -12V@0.8A, +5VSB@3.0A

and with 53 amps on the 12 volt rail and the overall 650 watts I am SURE you will be OK.
HOWEVER each component needs to be examined and I will do so and REPLY about 1800 hrs UK time.
(I see you say you have already bought the PSU - )

came up a little short of 650 watt so I bought one of them


Corsair have a good reputation and you have done right in purchasing a quality PSU.

RAM There are four ram slots in that motherboard
4×240pin - supporting a maximum of 32Gb.

Whether or not you NEED 16Gb of ram in two sticks of 8Gb is a matter for you to decide.
Do not forget that a 32 bit operating system - although I presume you are planning to install a 64bit - will only see 3.5Gb approx.
I am not suggesting that you only install 4Gb eg 2 x 2 Gb, to use the dual core capability but I wonder if you need 16gb.
You would have to examine the cost savings - of 2 x 4Gb as against the planned 2 x 8Gb.

You will be OK with the cooling, as you say the case has two fans and the graphics card has its own fan.
Check the dimensions of the card
Card Dimensions 10.5" x 4.38"
for the case - you should be Ok it is a Midi tower but check.

The best advice
at this stage is do not reply just on the spec from Newegg - go to each manufacturers site and especially the motherboard site will give you a list of tested memory and many other details.

I have just looked at the EVGA site
NOTE - you are NOT in any way OTT with that 650 watt PSu as gthe EVGA graphics recommends a minimum of
Requirements
Minimum of a 550 power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 38 Amps.)

from the EVGA website.
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#3
iammykyl

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A few questions to help us with configuring the build.

What will be your budget?


What will be the main use for the build?

Do you have applications that require Multi Threading?

You say you are not planning on over-clocking but FYI> Over-clocking and/or installing an after market cooler will void both AMD and Intel CPU warranty.

as mentioned by Macboatmaster

"

although I presume you are planning to install a 64bit" Do you have an OS. Must be full retail licence to install on this build. An OEM licence is tied to the original hardware and legally is not transferable to a new PC.


You have not listed HDD/s, optical drive.


What hardware will you bring to the build? IE. monitor,mouse, keyboard, speakers.


Another How To Build guide.

http://www.diy-gamin...ild-a-Computer/


You may wish to use a different TIM as an alternative to the pad supplied on the Intel cooler.


all about TIM, thank's to DigeratiPosted Imagehttp://www.geekstogo...rface-material/


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#4
Macboatmaster

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Further to my last and your EVGA graphics - that card has the Nvidia chip superclocked to 797Mhz
797Mhz (vs. 732Mhz reference)
In view of the fact you are installing an Asus motherboard I would give this due consideration
http://www.newegg.co...20geforce%20570
It is factory overclocked to 742 Mhz
Features742 MHz Factory Overclocked

That is not to suggest that there is any reason NOT to use the EVGA if you so prefer.
IF IT WAS ME I would go for the Asus. BUT CHECK with Asus on such an expensive build.

You will find this useful
http://www.hardwares...otherboard/1345



Re the RAM
I would check the memory support list on the Asus site
http://usa.asus.com/...RTOOTH_P67/#MSL
and ascertain which ram speed is standard and which is for O/C
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#5
Digerati

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A couple of comments.

[quotename='Macboatmaster']Do not forget that a 32 bit operating system - although I presume you are planning to install a 64bit - will only see 3.5Gb approx.
I am not suggesting that you only install 4Gb eg 2 x 2 Gb, to use the dual core capability but I wonder if you need 16gb.[/quote]First, it is dual-channel memory architecture, not dual core. Dual-channel is a motherboard feature and to take advantage of it, you need to install your RAM in pairs. And without knowing the primary purpose of this system, I would agree that 16Gb is probably overkill. The "sweetspot" for Windows 7 and a dual-channel memory architecture motherboard is 8Gb. Less than 8Gb and performance suffers, more than 8Gb and performance gains are marginal, at best (for most users). So unless you really need 16Gb, I think you would still be quite happy with the performance from 2 x 4Gb.

[quotename='iammykyl']Must be full retail licence to install on this build.[/quote]That is not true at all. You can certainly buy a new OEM/System Builders license for this build. You just cannot transfer an OEM license from an old computer to this new computer.

In any event, regardless the amount of RAM you buy, I recommend 64-bit Windows 7. This will ensure maximum use of your RAM, and also there are a couple extra security features not found in the 32-bit version of Windows 7.
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#6
Macboatmaster

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Digerati

Thank you.
Sorry meant dual channel

Sal
Digerati is our acknowledged expert on PSU matters and he IS the person to advise you on the PSU issue you raise, albeit you have I think already purchased it.
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#7
Digerati

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650W will easily meet your needs. And being 80 Plus certified, it is efficient, and being a Corsair (one of my preferred brands), it should provide years of quality power. And as Macboatmaster noted, the PSU will deliver only what the computer hardware demands of it. So the only thing "too big" might hurt is your budget - but even so it looks like you got a good deal.
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#8
Sal.

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Firstly, thank you for the replies.
Basically I've been a through many a year now using average PC's and laptops that have no bite that'll help me get my work done quicker and be able to run a lot more software etc...

I'm an animator, artist, graphic designer and also play about in 3D modelling, video editing, playing the occasional game as well as all the general - listening to music, watching films, surfing the net and so on...
So yeah, this time around I wanted to spend a bit of money on something that will last me a good couple of years before it needs an upgrade/rebuild and can do all the above without crashing or blowing up!

I've never built nor overclocked a computer before so have very little understanding of them apart from what I've read so I googled and found a site with the best rated gaming hardware from 2011 in order to pretty much get the best possible system within my price range and researched to make sure they all were compliant.


You may wish to use a different TIM as an alternative to the pad supplied on the Intel cooler.


Why will I want to do that? Is there any difference? Surely what comes with the processor would be best, no?


Further to my last and your EVGA graphics - that card has the Nvidia chip superclocked to 797Mhz
797Mhz (vs. 732Mhz reference)
In view of the fact you are installing an Asus motherboard I would give this due consideration
http://www.newegg.co...20geforce%20570
It is factory overclocked to 742 Mhz
Features742 MHz Factory Overclocked


What does this mean? Will the card not run on the board? Will it not run to it's full potential? Will it still be fast enough? Is it going to be stable on different Mhz?

I've seen a number of '570s' by different manufacturers? What's the meaning for this? Is it going to be better getting the ASUS version for compatibility issues? Is it a weaker card? The EVGA was rated highly and commented on in high praise everywhere I've looked so that's why I went with it.


First, it is dual-channel memory architecture, not dual core. Dual-channel is a motherboard feature and to take advantage of it, you need to install your RAM in pairs. And without knowing the primary purpose of this system, I would agree that 16Gb is probably overkill. The "sweetspot" for Windows 7 and a dual-channel memory architecture motherboard is 8Gb. Less than 8Gb and performance suffers, more than 8Gb and performance gains are marginal, at best (for most users). So unless you really need 16Gb, I think you would still be quite happy with the performance from 2 x 4Gb.


I will be installing 2x8Gb so will that take advantage of the dual-Channel? What do you mean by overkill? Is it that it's too much for my system and pointless buying? I felt as my motherboard holds 32Gb ram it would be best to buy 2x8Gb now and when the time called for it (hopefully in a few years) I could again get another 2 and still have a top notch PC. Also doing all the art based work and such I do, surely I'll take full use of the 16Gb when rendering my works?


650W will easily meet your needs. And being 80 Plus certified, it is efficient, and being a Corsair (one of my preferred brands), it should provide years of quality power. And as Macboatmaster noted, the PSU will deliver only what the computer hardware demands of it. So the only thing "too big" might hurt is your budget - but even so it looks like you got a good deal.


So, really I could buy a 1000 watt PSU and that'd be perfectly fine?? I've read there will be wasted power, but is that ever so bad? Just wondering.



A lot of typing here, but I really just want to make complete sure before I waste loads of money, making a silly mistake. Hopefully I can learn something too.

On a last note, what do you personally think of my build?



Cheers.

Sal.
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#9
Macboatmaster

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There are a large number of questions here.

I would make the following points to you

1.

I've never built nor overclocked a computer before


Building a computer - today - is not that complicated.
Motherboard headers and their connections from the front usb ports and front audio and panel for the Power, reset etc are mainly block connectors and it is generally more DIFFICULT than EASY to connect them incorrectly.

This was NOT the case a few years ago when all were separate wires and you could MORE easily - connect a ground to a powered output - usually an error with drastic consequences.

HOWEVER there are still mistakes and errors EASILY made - such as
1. Forgetting to remove any protective film from pre-applied Thermal compound on the CPU cooler - not ALL have a protective film
2. Forgetting to connect the CPU fan header.
3. Failing to take proper anti-static precautions
4. Attempting to insert the CPU incorrectly - normally identified by an arrow or corner shape. It will NOT GO IN, but a pin is damaged in the attempt to do so.
5. Motherboard secured incorrectly - stand off etc.

and the list goes on.
THIS is not to worry YOU unduly, but this is an expensive build and you WOULD NOT be the first person to get it wrong - nor certainly the LAST.

MY ADVICE if you do NOT have experience of the inside of a computer case and have NEVER installed Graphics, ram HDD etc is DO NOT LEARN ON THIS BUILD.
Beg, borrow or buy the cheapest computer you can find, maybe one of your acquaintances has one that is beyond its service life but is still working OR perhaps you have one.
Take it completely to pieces, as far as you can. NO need to remove the CPU itself especially. Then rebuild it. If it works SUCCESS.
If it does NOT work - then it is probably the most useful exercise you have undertaken AS - IT COULD HAVE BEEN your new expensive BUILD

2. GRAPHICS
NO. I made no suggestion that the EVGA card would not work
I simply offered you the consideration of examining further your planned purchase.
If it was me NOT that I would require such system as I do not GAME or even require high quality graphics - I am a great believer in staying as close as posible to what the chip manufacturer intended. Nvidia states that the chip runs at 732.
EVGA have superclocked it to 797.

IN MY OPINION - overclocking is to be AVOIDED at all costs.
The reason manufacturers produce guides etc and setups that can be overclocked is in response to public demand.
My experience is that the benefits gained are VERY SMALL compared with the RISKS involved.
That is NOT in respect of that graphics card per se, but in respect of OC in general.

3.

I've read there will be wasted power, but is that ever so bad? Just wondering.


I think I have already answered that. IF THE system demands 450 watts a 650 watt PSU will supply that and ONLY that
That is the case WHATEVER the wattage of the PSU.
What you have to bear in mind is if you MAY go for TWO cards to share the load on the graphics - then you may need to re-exmaine your PSU

HOWEVER as I said my colleague Digerati is the expert on those matters.

.
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#10
iammykyl

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We all have different opinion and approaches to building a PC. In the main we will agree on major points like quality and wattage of PSUs, so if differing views confuse you, (never our intention) shout out.
Our aim is to give you the best build for you intended use as close as possible to your budget. I note you have not given that yet.

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Quote



You may wish to use a different TIM as an alternative to the pad supplied on the Intel cooler.

<br style="color: rgb(13, 41, 117); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); "><br style="color: rgb(13, 41, 117); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); ">

Why will I want to do that? Is there any difference? Surely what comes with the processor would be best, no?

<br style="color: rgb(13, 41, 117); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); ">


The pre applied pad on a heat-sink is, I think, the most fool proof way that CPU manufacturers have devised for use by the general public, it is adequate but TIM like Arctic Silver is more effidient and is likely to give you lower temps. From Digerati's TIM tutorial, "Note 2

: A new HSF may come with a thermal interface pad already applied. Those pads consist of mostly paraffin, which is supposed to melt and squirm out of the way when the CPU heats up for the first time. Thermal pads are certainly better than no TIM at all, but they are not as effective as silver or ceramic based compounds."


I'm an animator, artist, graphic designer and also play about in 3D modelling, video editing, playing the occasional game as well as all the general - listening to music, watching films, surfing the net and so on.

I do not think you need a gaming build, it will not be optimized for your work. I think you should be building a workstation wich will be optimized for the work you do, (still play games, but not quite as good as a gaming rig)

The SB 2600K would be very, very good.

16GB RAM, good starting point.

Case, good.

Mobo, would need to be looked at but stay within the same price range.

GPU. If you use any of the Adobe software? You would need to change to something like a GTX 470 or higher as you will require Nvidia CUDA.

HDDs, 3 min. 4 recommended.

PSU, May still be OK but would have to be recalculated.

A site for you to explore, bear in mind that these guys are after a top score so the configurations are what to look at, ignore the over-clocked CPU.

Page set to show SB 2600K CPU, http://ppbm5.com/DB-PPBM5-2.php

Above page failed to load correctly,

Select Model CPU

Select

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> i7-26xx series

Edited by iammykyl, 18 January 2012 - 10:41 PM.

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#11
Digerati

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I'm an animator, artist, graphic designer and also play about in 3D modelling, video editing, playing the occasional game as well as all the general - listening to music, watching films, surfing the net and so on...

Understand the best graphics card for gaming is NOT the best graphics card for design and modeling. And a card designed for CAD/CAE, modeling, etc. will not be optimized for gaming either. As iammykle, you need a "workstation" graphics card for that, and as can be seen here, workstation cards can cost a fortune.

So, really I could buy a 1000 watt PSU and that'd be perfectly fine?? I've read there will be wasted power, but is that ever so bad? Just wondering.

Again, the PSU will supply only what it needs. That is, if the computer (CPU, RAM, motherboard, graphics card, fans, drives) needs 300W, the PSU will supply 300W regardless if it is a 350W PSU or a 1000W PSU. And the PSU will draw from the wall, 300W, plus any extra due to inefficiency - typically around 20%. So from the wall, it will draw about 360W. This assumes it is a quality PSU. Cheap PSUs do not have a linear efficiency rating across a full range of loads. They may be 80% efficient at 60% load, but drop to 65% efficient at full or idle loads. So where you read that, they were talking about cheap PSUs. PSUs that are 80-Plus certified are required to be efficient across a wide range.

Surely what comes with the processor would be best, no?

No. Not best, but for the vast majority of users, the TIM pads work just fine. However, you should never, as in NEVER EVER reuse TIM. So if you need to remove the heatsink or if the cured bond is ever broken, you need to thoroughly remove the old and apply a fresh new layer. Note most aftermarket TIMs do provide a few (typically 3 - 5) degrees improved cooling. But understand if those few degrees are necessary to provide adequate cooling, then your case has failed to do its job of providing adequate air flow through the case.
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#12
Macboatmaster

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And continuing on from that - that motherboard you are looking at, has a shield over many of the components, which according to Asus protects the motherboard components from the heat of the graphics card.
As the card you are looking at has its own cooling I do not think this will be an issue, but I read that the shield can be partly removed to install an additional small fan to cool the motherboard components.

This arrnagement although not with the shield is quite common these days where some motherboard specs recommend an additional fan on the northbridge chip.
Gigabyte frequently have such an arrangement.

At the RISK of repeating myself and for your best advice - THIS is not a build to attempt unless you have some knowledge of building a computer as per my somewhat detailed post 9 - AND I strongly recommend you gain experience on a less costly practice - dismantle/rebuild.
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#13
Sal.

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Hey guys thanks for the replies. That's all very helpful.

I'm just wondering now then, what would be the best GPU for me in that price range? I think I could get on and finish my build now with that.

Thanks again.
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#14
Sal.

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At the RISK of repeating myself and for your best advice - THIS is not a build to attempt unless you have some knowledge of building a computer as per my somewhat detailed post 9 - AND I strongly recommend you gain experience on a less costly practice - dismantle/rebuild.


I didn't mean to sound like I've never touch the inners of a computer before. I just meant to state that I've never fully bought all hardware parts to a computer and then built it from scratch. In the past I have owned PC's updated them, swapped parts and dismantled when they have broke down etc. Thanks for the consideration.
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#15
Digerati

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what would be the best GPU for me in that price range?

My nearly 60 year old eyes are not as good as they used to be. I have scanned through your posts twice and don't see where you posted a budget, so don't know what price range you are talking about. That said, understand that generally speaking, the more money you put into it, the better the graphics performance.

You asked earlier about overkill and RAM. Overkill was not a good choice of words. It is just there is a point of rapidly diminishing returns with RAM and that seems to peak at about 8G. Meaning the performance gains going from 8 to 12 are much less than going from 4 to 8. And 12 to 16 would see (perhaps only on paper) even less, if any.

That said, 2 x 8Gb for $160 is an excellent price so if in your budget, I see no reason not to get it. And frankly, when I buy a new computer, I generally like to buy all the RAM I think I might want during the initial build. This is because in two years or three years, the same RAM may not be available any more. Now granted, mixing RAM is not near the problem it used to be. This is because memory controllers are much better at controlling mixed RAM and also because RAM tolerances are much tighter. But still, I hate it when I buy two new sticks and find out it does not play well with the two older sticks - and being burnt in the past makes me shy of the future.
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