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Can my computer even have a graphics card?


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#1
howtheflip

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So for quite some time now, i've been waiting to buy a graphics card because my computer currently runs games at less than satisfactory speeds. I did a lot of research on my motherboard and what can be allowed in my computer model, etc. What I found was that my motherboard can support a pci-express x16, low-profile graphics card. I looked around for a graphics card that is slightly low on psu since i didn't want to have to upgrade mine too much/ at all. My final decision was the hd radeon 6570 low profile card. I'm fully aware of the risks of using a graphics card that takes more power than my psu can support, so please don't comment too much on that. My real question is this:

After looking at my machine, i'm not too sure where the graphics card would actually go. When I open it up, I see the motherboard, and then the dvi/vga components that stick out the back attached to the motherboard. I don't know if that means that I have built in graphics and can't remove them to make room for a new graphics card or what. Also, the ram slots are quite close to those components, along with these columns of metal rectangles sticking up. Overall, my question is, can this/any graphics card fit into my machine and how would I do that?

If it helps, I can give you motherboard information:

Motherboard: HP Compaq dc7100 SFF(DX878AV)

It is a dc7100 small form factor computer from HP, so i hope that helps

I may be able to upload a picture or two at some time if that would help as well.

Edited by howtheflip, 13 September 2012 - 08:18 PM.

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#2
iammykyl

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Hi,

Below is a link with information that may help.

> http://h18000.www1.h...zed by Regions)

Looking for a picture of your Mobo.
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#3
Macboatmaster

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I know you said in your post that you are fully aware of the PSU implications

I would however point out to you, that generally speaking

i've been waiting to buy a graphics card because my computer currently runs games at less than satisfactory speeds


you will not SOLVE that, by installing a graphics card, you MAY have improved - better quality graphics - resolution etc.

The other topic of yours
http://www.geekstogo...__fromsearch__1
where you asked about the ram and it was pointed out to you that what you were thinking of buying was DDR3 and your computer is DDR, and then you posted this

thankyou for your responses. Unfortunately, my friend already purchased it for me as a debt they owed. I guess i'll just have to hold on to it for future use in my new machine.


appears to me, to be the better option. With the cost of the ram that is now to be purchased - eg the DDR PC3200, the graphics card, and the PSU if necessary, you may be better evaluating the cost, against the benefits of waitng for the new computer.
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#4
iammykyl

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Go to the site below. download the

1

Reference Guide for HP dc7100 SFF, first folder image on the left. This shows you how to install an add on card.


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#5
howtheflip

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Macboat,
thanks a lot for your response on the situation. I wish my situation was as easy as waiting for buying a new machine, however. The main reason I am not worried about my machine and am willing to put in 100-150 dollars in to this machine is because I will not be getting a new computer for over a year at least. I am enlisted in the army reserves and leave january 2nd for about 9 months. Until then, however, I want something that can actually run the games I want to play at decent levels. I was planning on investing much more into a new computer (about 1k) when I returned, one that had a much greater graphics card than the 6570 in it. Until then, I figured that this would be my solution for the next several months to help. I am not playing any highly demanding games either, I would just really like if my system could get more than 15 fps in League of Legends, even when everything is on the lowest settings.

But, on your comment about not solving it, how will that not help solve the problem by giving me more fps? I thought that that's what graphics cards did.

To others,
Thank you for the links and guides to install it, I have not looked at them yet, but I am sure that they are very helpful.

Okay, I looked at the manual at http://bizsupport1.a...2/c00211142.pdf

so, is the information i need located under 7.9.3? and is there anything else that i should be aware of to place the card in?

Edited by howtheflip, 14 September 2012 - 09:10 AM.

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#6
Macboatmaster

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Firstly - if Jan 2 is active service - stay safe

Secondly perhaps I should explain a little more without being too technical

There are in my opinion many aspects to consider

1. I think I am correct in saying that the card is recommended to be run with a PSU of 400 watts, unless I am mistaken yours in that computer is 240 watts
What is critical is not just the wattage but the amps available on the 12 v rail

2. Minimum system ram

3. Which processor is in your small form factor HP as I see it came with many different ones fitted
Whilst the card may offer an increased graphics peformance, over and above the integrated graphics, you still have to consider the CPU and indeed the ram
If the frames per second that the card is capable of in any given game, cannot be supported by the CPU, it will still run under performance.

4. Then you have to consider the case airflow
Although the card has its own fan - you still require adequate air flow in the case.

My concern is that you are expecting that the card will perfom to the limits of its design.
I am not so sure in your system


If I did not raise the concerns, I would be letting you down.
I am not saying it will not run. I am saying that you require indepth research to ensure the cost of whatever is involved is worth the effort.
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#7
howtheflip

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Thanks again for your response. I am not sure which CPU's were listed on the link, but it is a dual-core 3.0ghz processor. I've always thought that to be decent enough to run a game such as League of Legends. Also, I do have the 240 psu power supply in. I currently have 2.49 gb of ram installed. I can upgrade the ram to the 4gb max for my system, but I don't see that making much of a change for the frames, do you? And i was planning on leaving my computer open to allow extra airflow for the meantime. Do you think that is a good/bad idea?

I'm not sure if there is a small form power supply greater than 300 psu that will fit in the case when i last researched it. I also found cases of people running the 6570 with my power supply and it going successfully.

Initially, my three options were the 6450, 5450, 5570 and 6570. These were the three that I found with the lowest demands of power. The 5450 maxed out at 19 watts, the 6450 at 30, the 5570 at 43, and the 6570 at 50. I, however, don't plan on overloading my computer to the point were the max would be needed (their max was based on 3d programs). The performance between the 6570 and the others is also exponentially greater, since most people consider the others "streaming cards." So, i figured it should only consume about 20 watts at any given time. I forget exactly where the chart was, I know it was a major list posted on tomshardware.com

I'm expecting there to be some form of bottlenecking with the card, but I'd rather have my system bottleneck at it's max point than struggle because I don't have anything in it. I'm not trying to get full use out of the card, I'm trying to get full use out of my system.

So, after all that, if you have any more advice to safely increase my frames without putting it at too much risk, then I will be glad to hear it. Thank you in advice.

Edited by howtheflip, 14 September 2012 - 01:50 PM.

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#8
Macboatmaster

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The ram is OK and was never really worthy of consideration for increasing as you asked on the previous link, the system will only see 3.25 approx

I can only suggest, you try it and see - the card I mean
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#9
howtheflip

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Okay, thank you again for your time. I of course will let you know how it goes when I do finally purchase it, even though it may be a few weeks. If it does not work, it is not a too large of a loss as I will probably resell it.

Edited by howtheflip, 14 September 2012 - 02:32 PM.

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#10
iammykyl

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so, is the information i need located under 7.9.3? and is there anything else that i should be aware of to place the card in?

Yes, and,
Takes it power from the slot, does not require any additional connection. in the link below, there is a mention of replacing the rear bracket to fit it as a low profile card, but gives no details, something you may have to research with Google. The review is for the card with GDDR5, there is a version with GDDR3 using less power but of course performs is less.

http://www.hardwares...d-Review/1271/2
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#11
DDMLK

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Thanks again for your response. I am not sure which CPU's were listed on the link, but it is a dual-core 3.0ghz processor. I've always thought that to be decent enough to run a game such as League of Legends. Also, I do have the 240 psu power supply in. I currently have 2.49 gb of ram installed. I can upgrade the ram to the 4gb max for my system, but I don't see that making much of a change for the frames, do you? And i was planning on leaving my computer open to allow extra airflow for the meantime. Do you think that is a good/bad idea?


Hi howtheflip, I've taken an interest on this thread as I have had the same PC as yours for about a year now and I have done several upgrades on it.

First, I would like to let you know that unfortunately your CPU is not a dual-core 3.0GHz one. It is a single core CPU with hyper-threading. This is very different and significantly less efficient than a dual core CPU.

Second, the game League of Legends lists a GeForce 8800 as a "recommended" graphics card. This is way beyond the capabilities of your system, unfortunately. Is there a trial version of this game? I may be able to install it on mine and let you know how it performs. I upgraded my DC7100 SFF to a 3.8GHz 64bit CPU and running Windows 7 Professional 64bit with 4GB RAM (although the system can only use 3.2GB due to motherboard limitations) and I have a 60GB Intel 330 SSD as my system drive. I have also, as mentioned in your other thread, an Asus 210 Silent graphics card with 1GB DDR3 RAM.

Having said all that, I expect a 6570 would give you a much better gaming experience than the Intel onboard graphics that you seem to be running at the moment.. however... I'm not sure the PSU will be able to handle it, as others have pointed out.

Admittedly, I don't use my HP for gaming. It is used as our home server and media player.

I would steer away from the idea of running any PC with an open case. It is just not safe.
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#12
howtheflip

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Thankyou for the reply. I have not been able to test the graphics card yet because unfortunately I bought one with too many extensions.

Firstly, I just checked my device manager and two processors are currently showing up. Could that still be hyper threading?

I don't know if there is a test version for league of legends.

My main question is the difference in power between your upgraded processor and video card?

If I recall, you said the video card takes 31 watts. I'm assuming the new processor you put in takes more than the old one because it is performing at high speeds, and i'm almost positive it still takes the full power even if it is being bottlenecked.

All together, I feel like your upgrades may take the same 50 watts of power my video card would be taking. And that is the maximum power of the card. I don't plan on every running my card to it's highest limits, so I don't see that there should be a problem. If anything, I feel like your system would consistently take more power, although never spike as high as mine could if i were to run it vigorously.


EDIT: Here is a comparison of the cards as well: http://www.hwcompare...d-6570-oem-2gb/

Clearly the 6570 is muchhh better in performance.

If anything, I could drop back down to the radeon 5570: http://www.hwcompare...radeon-hd-5570/

It only consumes 12 more watts at maximum load than your card does. I'm sure between your ssd and upgraded processor, you consistently consume that amount?

Your card also tests approximately the same as the radeon 6450, which consumes the same amount of power, has same bandwidth, and is slightly better in other aspects. That card is considered awful for gaming, however, and is only good for streaming. It would be unfortunate to invest in a good such as yours and then not be able to run the games I would like to. I feel pretty safe about the radeon 6570 after much research.

Edited by howtheflip, 06 October 2012 - 08:24 PM.

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#13
iammykyl

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I have not been able to test the graphics card yet because unfortunately I bought one with too many extensions.


What do you mean by "extensions" and how does this stop you installing the card?
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#14
Zolton33

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I have not been able to test the graphics card yet because unfortunately I bought one with too many extensions.


What do you mean by "extensions" and how does this stop you installing the card?



I would guess they may of bought the wrong socket style gpu. Probably a pci instead of a agp or pci express. (or mix and match the differences) A good read for the op on gpu's and different types.

http://www.diamondmm...uyvideocard.php

Or it could be they are talking about the hook ups of the cord from the monitor to the card. (hdmi dvi etc)

I tried looking up specs on the mobo and monitor but sadly its just a huge pita to find anything. http://h18000.www1.h...ized by Regions) Is the best info i could find. Sadly its all greek to me.

Edited by Zolton33, 06 October 2012 - 11:33 PM.

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#15
iammykyl

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Unless I missed something, all the links are for PCI-Epress x16 cards.


howtheflip

Please post a link to the card you purchased.

There now appears be be No low profile HD 6570 with 2GB of DDR5 memory.
This card will give you the best performance, > http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127612
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