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Help Upgrading Please


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#1
Zolton33

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http://pcpartpicker.com/p/icj3 What i am considering at the moment. Either with or without the psu. Thoughts? Any thing you would change?

My current setup:
amd athlon 64 x2 4400+ toledo (2.21ghz)
biostar 6100-939 mobo
Msi HD 6450 1 gig gpu
3 1 gig sticks of kingston pc3200 ram
my psu http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817148001
my case http://www.apevia.co...=ATXA8NW-AL/500

I will be using amazon to make my purchase. And to be honest i am trying to do this upgrade as cheap as possible (was shooting at a max of 150 bucks or cheaper if possible for now). Main reason i am upgrading is that my cpu fan seems to be going out on me. Its not working some times and at others is running at over 5000-10000rpm randomly (so even at temps around 35-37). So the main things i want to replace right now that i need to is my cpu ram and mobo. I want to use my old psu if you think it will last until around november first so i can get a better quality one. I plan on ordering the parts on october first. And i plan to use my old os (windows xp 32 home) hard drive optical drive mouse and keyboard and monitor.

I plan to do some more upgrading some time next year. But in november i was planning on replacing my case fans and power supply provided my old psu would still work for another month but if you think it won't then i am looking for the cheapest possible alternative (some thing cheap but dependable). I may plan to upgrade my gpu sometime in the future but my current one works and is less then 6 months old. I built this pc about 6 years ago and really sorry to see it go but its probably way past time to upgrade (although i've yet to try a game it could not play to be honest) lol

I do game quite a bit but never on the highest settings (i care more for the fun in games not eye candy). And i do not plan to upgrade past a sandy bridge cpu and i have no plans to over clock or crossfire or anything. Most of the games i play are mmorpg's and f2p mmorpg's. So thoughts? Opinions? Anything you would change? Any way to go cheaper? Thanks in advance for any and all help you can give me.
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#2
phillpower2

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:welcome: Zolton33

Personally I feel that for such minimal improvements that you would be better to sort out the present cooling fan issue and keep saving until you can get better quality upgrades that will last you for a few years, the 4 components at your PCPartpicker list do not offer you this although the CPU and Ram are an improvement over the present.

You have said in your OP that you intend using your present 32-bit XP disk, what type of disk is it a full retail or OEM type that was supplied with a computer.

Let us know if we can help with the cooling fan issue and if so let us know the present PSU details, brand and model name or number please.
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#3
Zolton33

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:welcome: Zolton33

Personally I feel that for such minimal improvements that you would be better to sort out the present cooling fan issue and keep saving until you can get better quality upgrades that will last you for a few years, the 4 components at your PCPartpicker list do not offer you this although the CPU and Ram are an improvement over the present.

You have said in your OP that you intend using your present 32-bit XP disk, what type of disk is it a full retail or OEM type that was supplied with a computer.

Let us know if we can help with the cooling fan issue and if so let us know the present PSU details, brand and model name or number please.



The link to my psu is in my first post :P And i thought it would be easier if i replaced the mobo cpu and ram as the mobo cpu and ram are 6 years old. And i am concerned about replacing the cpu heat sink as it has not been removed in 6 years. The gpu i bought less then 6 months ago was to fix my on board gpu (that was on the mobo) as it was getting hot and causing the monitor to randomly go black then back to normal (found out that that chip set of my mobo was getting hot then causing the black out then coming back).

And my case fans as well as psu and all other components are almost 6 years old at the moment. With exception to a new optical drive i bought about 8 months ago and my hdd i bought about 4-5 years ago. My windows xp is oem and yes i know that microsoft have changed their policies over the oem version of their windows that it is not only anti diy but also is now linked to the mobo. Except in cases where the mobo dies. And in my case i can not replace my old mobo do to it being discontinued. And in some cases they will reactivate your windows in these cases. But there is always a chance they won't. But i'll probably have to take that risk sadly as i do not have the funds to buy new windows right now (and i would not touch windows 8 with a 30 mile long pole).

And the main reason for the upgrade is that my pc is dying sadly. I could probably replace the cpu fan easy enough and probably the psu as well. But then if the mobo decides to die i'll be stuck without a pc at all. I suspect its either the psu or the cpu fan that is dying but it could also be the mobo. But with my on board graphics of my mobo going black randomly last year i suspect the mobo is not far behind them in either case. Now to be brutally honest i'm on very low fixed income. So need to do things as cheaply and effectively as possible to be honest.

Which is why i was considering replacing the ram cpu and mobo then later replace the psu and case fans then as i can afford it replace individual parts. I was concerned that if i replaced the cpu heat sink and it was the mobo i'd be out money. But it could also be my psu as well. I could replace my cpu fan and psu but was concerned about the cpu maybe being fused with it (my old cpu heat sink) or the mobo dying. My cpu came with a first generation coolermaster cpu fan when i got it.

All my pc's details minus the exact optical drive and my hdd are in my first post really. If you can find me a cheap safe route to solving the problem awesome. Please keep in mind that all my parts will be ordered via amazon as there are no pc part shops near me at all and i do not own a credit card. But can purchase online thanks to the amazon gift cards. i have my pc set to shut off at 70c at the moment just to be safe. And right now it idles at or around 32-42 (depending on the room temp) these are from the fan conditioner utility that came with my mobo from biostar.

http://www.amazon.co.../?tag=pcpapi-20

Found that cpu cooler (i like the fan blowing it at the side of my case as i have 1 120mm side case fan to help move it out of my case) it says it supports a 939 socket which my cpu and mobo both are. As far as power supply? I have no clue never messed with them hardly and my last build was 6 years ago lol.

Edited by Zolton33, 23 September 2012 - 01:01 PM.

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#4
phillpower2

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Before you purchase anything run Speedfan and provide us with a screenshot so that your temps and voltages can be checked;

Download Speedfan and install it. Once it's installed, run the program and post here the information it shows. The information I want you to post is the stuff that is circled in the example picture I have attached.
If you are running on a vista machine, please go to where you installed the program and run the program as administrator.

Posted Image
(this is a screenshot from a vista machine)
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#5
Zolton33

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Not sure how to get a screen shot but i will post the info (hitting print on my keyboard does squat):

fan1:0
fan2:0
fan3:0
fan4:0
fan5:0
GPUfan:0

temp1:127c
temp2:127c
temp3:34c
temp:1c
Hdo:26c
temp1:34c
gpu:32c
core:36c

Vcore1:1.33v
vcore2:1.15v
+3.3v:3.23v
+5v:4.97v
+12v:12.42v
-12v:-3.56v
-5v:-4.60v
+5v:4.92v
vbat:3.02v
gpu vddc:0.90v

There are 4 case fans in my case plus the psu fan plus the cpu fan.. I turned my side case fan around so it blows air in normally its an exhaust as well (did this to help keep it cool since my cpu fan is not working as much) the other 3 are exhaust fans (two in the back ans 1 on top). Not sure why the fans are not reading but you have got to remember my pc is over 6 years old. Not sure what you hope to learn about my pc from this but i posted my temps (cpu temps) and my fan speed (cpu fan) those were reading my fan conditioner was already showing. And right now at this moment my cpu fan is stopped completely.
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#6
phillpower2

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As the CPU fan has now stopped altogether I suggest a physical check is done, see if the fan will spin freely by hand, that the connection to the fan header on the MB is secure and that the heatsink beneath the CPU cooler is not clogged which could prevent the fan from turning, let us know if you need guidance with this.

For future reference;

To capture and post a screenshot;

Click on the ALT key + PRT SCR key..its on the top row..right hand side..now click on start...all programs...accessories...paint....left click in the white area ...press CTRL + V...click on file...click on save...save it to your desktop...name it something related to the screen your capturing... BE SURE TO SAVE IT AS A .JPG ...otherwise it may be to big to upload... then after typing in any response you have... click on browse...desktop...find the screenshot..select it and click on the upload button...then on the lower left...after it says upload successful...click on add reply like you normally would.
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#7
Zolton33

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As i said before it runs randomly. Some times it doesn't run and other times its rpm can hit over 10000rpm. I have already taken my pc apart and checked and cleaned the cpu fan that was the first thing i did. it did no good. I then turned my side case fan around to be an intake to help keep my cpu cool until i could either replace the cpu fan or just put in a new mobo cpu and ram.

I understand you are wanting to do baby steps to try to help me out. and i appreciate it. While i'm far from an expert in pc's and putting them together i am far from being a novice having built two pc's so far for myself (both builds done over 6 years ago now though). Of course the first thing i did when i noticed the cpu fan wasn't working was to clean it and check the connections. The second thing i did was to monitor it. The third i did was to try two other fan controllers all with the same results on each with the cpu fan some times not working and at other times even at low temps it would hit upwards of 10000rpm.

As far as i've deduced its either the cpu fan going out or the psu about to die or the sensors on the mobo are going out. It would not surprise me about any one of these 3 components as all three are well over 6 years old and have been running well for those 6 years. And that speedfan utility is notorious on giving bad readings not only on the fans but also on the temps as it confuses itself on whats what. Right now with me having done nothing (i just cleaned the cpu fan just the other day)its rpm is about 3515 and cpu is at 30-33c.

Now my north bridge of my mobo was running hot and making my monitor go black randomly then come back. So i know my mobo has some problems. which is why i switched to a gpu and got off the on board gpu to fix it. The only things i have not tried so far is to replace the psu (i do not have any spares) or the cpu fan (same thing no spares) or the mobo (no spares and my board is discontinued). I strongly think its a combination of the psu and the cpu fan. Reasoning is that i now am using more of the psu as i put in a graphics card within the past 6 months (in 6 years i've never put one in before) and the cpu fan is making a slight grinding noise when it hits high rpm's (other times its quite quiet when running) but that could just be vibrations. There is not a spec of dust on my cpu cooler at all.

What i had figured out is that i had 2 choices. First choice replace the cpu fan and psu and hope that its not the mobo. Second replace the mobo ram and cpu and hope it was not the psu. Replacing the cpu fan and psu would be the cheapest route but then again i know my mobo won't last forever and if the mobo is the problem then i'll have a cpu fan i can not use. To be honest i don't think its the mobo but i don't like to just dismiss something out right. I believe replacing the cpu fan and psu would prolong my pc a bit longer. |But i'll still probably end up buying the cpu i linked and the mobo and ram. Then later on upgrade to an i3 2100 or an i5 2500 depending on the prices later down the road.
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#8
phillpower2

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Well two things are established that you can address, the CPU fan is making grinding noises and needs replacing and the PSU you have is of questionable quality (see http://forum.pcmech....ide-inside.html) and should also be replaced before upgrading the MB, CPU etc

Can you try manually setting your CPU fan speed with Speedfan and provide us with the previously requested screenshot.

Just a FWIW, my apologies the baby steps were not intended but please keep in mind that others who have less knowledge than yourself may look to your topic for guidance, from my signature;

Please remember that forums are for learning and sharing knowledge and in keeping with that no assistance is offered outside of the forums so that we may all learn


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#9
Zolton33

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Yeah i had posted on tomshardware (real hard to get help there for low budget builds or upgrades) and many there thought it was a sacrilege that my psu was still working lol But to be honest i have not had any problems until recently. So could you recommend me a decent psu and cpu fan (please use amazon as that is where i will be ordering and i'll be ordering October first) that can handle my current setup and could withstand a few upgrades. I do not think i need any huge psu's as i have no plans at all to ever overclock or sli or crossfire. But i do plan to go with a 1155 mobo and cpu (not planning on going above a sandy bridge cpu) and maybe a better gpu later on down the road (but i do not plan on getting some huge energy sucking gpu's and probably not for another year or so and it would be a cheap one then under 100 bucks).

To be honest i see no point in doing a screenshot of speedfan and do not plan to ever run that program again. Its software is not user friendly at all and has a huge learning curve. I love my fan conditioner software that came with my mobo its real easy to use. I can set it to where there is a targeted temp then set a temp for the fan to go full speed and a temp to shut down my pc. I have the targeted temp set to 35c (the lowest setting) and full speed at 60c (the lowest i could put it at) and shut down at 70c (its lowest temp).

I just plan to replace the cpu fan and psu as cheaply as possible for now (cheap but dependable) then start to slowly upgrade my pc over the next year to where i like it. I know its one of 3 components causing my problem and i figure replacing 2 out of 3 of them may be my best bet right now. If its the mobo then i'll just have to replace it my cpu and ram in a month or so cheaply. But hopefully this will fix it so i can buy some better components piece by piece until i have a much better pc (i was eye balling the i3 2100 its received great reviews as a gaming cpu). So what is the cheapest best psu and cpu fan i can get? My mobo is a 939 socket.

And i can understand your reasoning for the baby steps. Its just that i end up running into morons in tech support for my isp that start off with "is your pc on?" and the infamous "is the cable from your modem connected to your pc?" i swear i would love to reach through the phone and slap those people you know? But i guess it is put there just like the warning on the gel packets for morons that come with new shoes that says "please do not eat".

I had one moron sit at my pc for 4 hours and he could not get my pc to connect to the internet. 4 hours!!! When i finally got him to move i had it up and running in 15 minutes. And in that 4 hours he called 5 different tech support lines for the isp company. I've just had bad experiences you know? So what cpu fan would you suggest i do want it to be one where the fan is parallel with the cpu so that it blows the air out the side of my case. And as for the psu? I just want one that will run my current setup and maybe allow for a better gpu later on down the road. Thanks for the help you are giving me i do appreciate it.
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#10
phillpower2

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But i guess it is put there just like the warning on the gel packets for morons that come with new shoes that says "please do not eat".


:spoton:

Seriously though we have no way of knowing the ability of members who request assistance and you would be surprised at the amount of times that people have led others to believe that they knew exactly what they were doing only for it to become blindingly obvious that they did not.

Cooler for your consideration http://www.amazon.co...39 cooling fans I like the fact that it comes with a tube of thermal paste as opposed to having a thermal pad pre-applied as the quality of those is sometimes questionable.

A couple PSUs http://www.amazon.co...wer supply unit or to allow for future upgrades such as a more powerful add on video card as they can be quite power hungry http://www.amazon.co...wer supply unit

Tip, consider what GPU you would like to upgrade to in the future and then check what the required PSU output the card needs as this will help you decide if the 500 or 600W would be required.
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#11
Zolton33

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The first psu you linked to is a used one. I'm kind of leery when it comes to used products as you have no clue how rough the previous owner was with it. The cpu heat sink you linked to i'm not sure about either to be honest. It is the kind that blows the air either towards the front of the case or to the rear. I would much rather prefer one that blows the air towards the side of the case so that my 120mm side case fan can move the air out faster to be honest. That is how i ran my pc for over 6 years now and i have not used that upright style of cpu cooler before.

Which is why i was considering http://www.amazon.co.../?tag=pcpapi-20 it is $19.99 and with it i could buy a thing of arctic silver for 3.80 more for a total of $23.97.

The second psu you linked to seems expensive to be honest. But if that one is more future proof and there are no other cheaper alternatives then it is the one i will probably go with. Honestly i'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to psu's. When this build 6 years ago i just went with the psu that came with my case. And a lot has changed in 6 years on parts and a lot of new companies. It is difficult to search amazon for some parts. Which is why i was using pcpartpicker http://pcpartpicker.com to find my best possible parts.

So can you recommend me a better cpu heat sink that is more like the style i posted to? And is there no cheaper alternative to the psu you linked to? I'm trying to cut costs as much as possible but using old used components worries me.
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#12
phillpower2

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Sorry about the first PSU I did not realize, as I do not use amazon I was not aware they promoted used items.
The second PSU is not expensive as they go but being restricted to using amazon reduces the options somewhat, Corsair is my preferred brand of PSU but I also recommend and have used Antec, OCZ and Seasonic, an example of what you can obtain from other outlets will give you an idea on the prices http://www.newegg.co...ID=3938566&SID= or http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139028 I would use either of these before the OCZ brand but compare the prices at amazon compared to Newegg, Corsair prices @ amazon http://www.amazon.co...2&rnid=15784691

Your chosen fan appears ok but not much feedback on it, see what you think about this one http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_cp_pc_3
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#13
Zolton33

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Again the cpu fan you linked me is an upright one >_< and unless i can some how set it up to blow air out the rear of the case (i have 2 rear 80mm fans) it would probably run my case hot. The cpu fan style i am used to sits flat on the cpu and pulls the air out and blows it at the side of the case where my 120mm fan can then speed it up on exiting the case. That is the type of cpu fan i prefer.

http://www.amazon.co...wer supply unit Only $65 bucks roughly.

http://www.amazon.co...48597345&sr=1-2 41 bucks roughly seems like a good buy newegg charging almost a $100 bucks or more for it http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817341041 . So i am seriously considering it especially since my 2 80mm fans sit directly below the psu


This cooler http://www.amazon.co.../?tag=pcpapi-20 $20 bucks is the same as this cooler http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835999013 $26 which does have pretty good reviews plus it is about 6 bucks cheaper from the newegg price.

So thoughts on these 2 the psu and cpu cooler? Any better suggestions? Any way togo cheaper then $61 for both?
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#14
phillpower2

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Someone must have made a mistake with the PSU prices at amazon and then realized, please check the price for the OCZ 750W PSU at your amazon link as the price has now changed from what was showing earlier.

Genuine AMD cooler http://www.amazon.co...pd_sim_sbs_pc_4
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#15
Zolton33

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http://www.amazon.co...48597345&sr=1-2

Still showing at roughly 41 dollars for me. $40.87 only 4 in stock though.

But i also saw this http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top roughly 42 bucks.

And i do like the cpu cooler for sure.
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