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Thermal Event. Thermal paste replaced, still unsolved


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#1
chromejael

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Hi all,

My desktop PC has been with me for more than 5 years now. Recently, after turning it on, while I was about to move some files to my USD, it abruptly turned off, without warning. It didn't even go through the shut down process, one moment it's on and the next, pitch black. Right after that, I switched it on again, and there were some loud beeps. At the bottom, it said that the computer had experienced a thermal event (overheating), and that I should get it fixed, or press F2 to continue. I pressed F2 and it booted up as usual, all the way to the start screen.

Of course, it happened again. After letting it cool down an entire day, I booted it up again, let it load up all the way to the start screen and just timed how long it took before another shutdown. It wasn't that long before it happened again.

After a quick google search, I decided to open up my desktop and change the thermal paste. The old thermal paste was completely solid. It was like hardened cement. This was a problem because the solid aluminium (or some sort of metal) cooling block was stuck to the intel chip. I had to pull out the chip without un-locking it from the frame, because there was no way to take it out. I yanked it out, and I feared I broke the chip or some pins. I took some alcohol swabs, cleaned out the old hard paste, and put in a new layer of paste. I figured the chip was not broken, because it booted up just fine.

After 10 minutes or so, it turned off again. But when I booted it up, there was no thermal event warning message. I figured the paste needed to be "broken-in" and it would be fine now.

But after some simple internet browsing, thermal event happened again.
I changed the paste twice already, because I thought there was bubbles or the paste wasnt in contact or something.

Then today, I booted it up, and after 3 minutes, a thermal event shutdown happened.



On a side note, this may or may not be important.
- I recently changed my CMOS battery because the time and dates were being reset all the time. After I replaced the new battery, I did not touch or reconfigure any bios settings, just the time and date at the start menu bar, because I dont know how to configure BIOS.
- My intel chip is one of the series of chips that had a hole at the top. I'm not sure if that hole was supposed to be cleaned out or not. I just squirted a dot on the intel chip and sandawiched the cooler block on to it.

Am I doing something wrong? Do I have to change some settings or something?
How do I narrow down what is wrong with my desktop so I can fix it?
Because I just need it to run long enough to transfer my files to an external HDD, then I'm going to buy a new desktop.
But I first need it to turn on long enough to actually do something without shutting down :(

Please tell me what info you need. I'll post all the relevant specs in my next post.

Edited by chromejael, 20 June 2013 - 06:52 AM.

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#2
Veeg

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Hello
I suggest you go back inside your case and check for bad/bulged capacitors...

Here is a link of bad caps......... https://www.google.c...iw=1280&bih=657
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#3
chromejael

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If I do find some bad/bulging capacitors, how easy is it to replace it?
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#4
Veeg

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If I do find some bad/bulging capacitors, how easy is it to replace it?


It's according to your experience in repairing mother boards or working on a pc in general..
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#5
chromejael

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Out of the 20+ capacitors on my motherboard, big and small, there was no "leakage" on the top as far as I could see. There was only one large capacitor that had a slight bulge on the top, but that was it.

I can solder, but I think soldering computer parts requires more precision and accuracy?
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#6
Veeg

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Out of the 20+ capacitors on my motherboard, big and small, there was no "leakage" on the top as far as I could see. There was only one large capacitor that had a slight bulge on the top, but that was it.

I can solder, but I think soldering computer parts requires more precision and accuracy?


This cap could be the problem...The difficulty here is ...dis-assemble pc to the point you can take out the mobo ...find the solder points where the cap is connected. de-solder/unsolder the connections points to take out old/bad cap. Replace using the new cap.here it has to go back in exactly the way it came out,or in other words the + and - sides have to be in the correct mobo points and then solder points back re-assemble hardware and power up pc...Hopefully this covers the problem..
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#7
chromejael

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When I go out to buy a new capacitor, can I go to regular electronic stores, or computer parts stores? What details do I have to know about the capacitor I'm about to buy?
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#8
phillpower2

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Excuse the interjection Veeg :thumbsup:

chromejael can you take a picture of what you suspect is a bulging cap and upload it with your next reply so we can take a look.

Can you also tell us the brand and model name or number of the MB, PSU and add on video card if you have one.

What you are describing is typical of overheating but a bad PSU that is putting out too much power can also cause overheating.
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#9
chromejael

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Excuse the interjection Veeg :thumbsup:

chromejael can you take a picture of what you suspect is a bulging cap and upload it with your next reply so we can take a look.

Can you also tell us the brand and model name or number of the MB, PSU and add on video card if you have one.

What you are describing is typical of overheating but a bad PSU that is putting out too much power can also cause overheating.


I can turn on the desktop and find out, but I literally have about 5 to 7 minutes before it does the auto-shutdown.

I'm running on windows XP. Can you tell me exactly where I can find all the info about the Motherboard, Power supply unit, and graphic card?
Can I find all this info using the "DXdiag" tool?
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#10
chromejael

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Luckily, I managed to gather all the info I needed, without it auto-shutting down.
I managed to find all the info needed from 3 different places, the BIOS, DXdiag, and system properties. Here is all the info you asked for:

OS: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600)
Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 3.00 GHz (2 CPUs)
Motherboard: Intel D865PERL
Motherboard version: AAC27648-211
BIOS version: RL86510A.86A.0075.P15
Graphics Card: Radeon 9250
Chip Type: Radeon 9250 AGP (0x5960)
Power Supply Unit: ICute ATX-450W/P4


Here are the pictures of the bad processor, and if its relevant, the arrangement of the insides of my desktop:

Internal desktop layout:
http://bayimg.com/FAnbjaaEG
http://bayimg.com/FAnbKAAEG

PSU:
http://bayimg.com/fAnBLAaEg

Intel chip cooling block/unit:
http://bayimg.com/FAnbMAAEg

Suspected bad processor:
http://bayimg.com/FanbpAAEG
http://bayimg.com/GAnBcAaeg
http://bayimg.com/gAnBGaaEg
http://bayimg.com/gaNbhAaeg
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#11
Veeg

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Nice pics,to me that cap has a bulge and is starting to split.. You may be able to find another cap in a tech store..The last time i had to replace caps i had to order a bag of caps from Taiwan... You will have to match those numbers on your current cap for a replacement cap. If you decide to remove and replace take note of the way it is in the mobo,i am referring to the plus and minus sides..
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#12
phillpower2

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Thanks for the informative update :thumbsup:

Has the computer ever been overclocked in any way.

That particular cap does look slightly prominent but I am not 100% convinced that it is responsible for the issue and suspect that an underpowered/flaky PSU could be behind this, next time that you restart the computer can you run Speedfan and provide a screenshot for us;

Download Speedfan and install it. Once it's installed, run the program and post here the information it shows. The information I want you to post is the stuff that is circled in the example picture I have attached.
If you are running on a vista machine, please go to where you installed the program and run the program as administrator.

Posted Image
(this is a screenshot from a vista machine)

To capture and post a screenshot;

Click on the ALT key + PRT SCR key..its on the top row..right hand side..now click on start...all programs...accessories...paint....left click in the white area ...press CTRL + V...click on file...click on save...save it to your desktop...name it something related to the screen your capturing... BE SURE TO SAVE IT AS A .JPG ...otherwise it may be to big to upload... then after typing in any response you have... click on browse...desktop...find the screenshot..select it and click on the upload button...then on the lower left...after it says upload successful...click on add reply like you normally would.

Depending on the results we may need to run further software for comparison http://www.cpuid.com.../hwmonitor.html

Screenshot instructions are provided to assist those that may read this topic but are not yet aware of the “how to”.
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#13
chromejael

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This time, after I started up the PC after a 24-hour cooldown period, it shutdown 20 seconds after I turned it on. It didn't even get past the welcome screen. After that, I managed to use it long enough to install the software and get the screenshots.

No, the computer has never been overclocked since the day I got it.
But this computer was built from scratch by another person, it isn't the consumer sold variety, I suspect. But I can't tell for sure if its overclocked, or not.

Here are the screenshots:
http://bayimg.com/NanFhaAeg

This 2nd screenshot was taken after I restarted the PC, just to get a 2nd reading:
http://bayimg.com/nanFjAaEG

Edited by chromejael, 23 June 2013 - 06:11 AM.

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#14
phillpower2

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This issue was present before you reapplied the thermal paste but you must ensure that the present application has been done correctly, no paste should have been allowed to go through the orientation key (hole) on the CPU http://www.arcticsil...on_method.html#

With the exception of a fan only turning at 29rpm there is nothing showing out of the ordinary so you need to identify which fan is actually running at 29rpm (it may be the PSU cooling fan) leave the side of the case off then restart the computer and observe the behavior of the 3 fans to identify which is not turning correctly, please do not reach inside the case when you do this.

You have 3 fans fitted, the CPU cooling fan which will have a sensor to monitor the rpm, a rear case exhaust fan which only has two wires a + and a - which means that there is no fan speed sensor wire (often blue in colour) this leaves the fan turning at 29 rpm to be that of the PSU, this will result in the PSU overheating and the internal thermal sensor that the PSU has shutting down to protect your computer, see attachment for the features that the ICute ATX-450W/P4 has.

As an asides the ICute brand is not the best and couple that with the amount of HDDs that you have fitted which puts additional stress on the PSU and this suggests that the PSU has not been able to cope.
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#15
123Runner

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May I also interject?
A 450 watt psu is really low in wattage for what you have inside the case. You have 4 hard drives and a couple CD drives. It also looks like a floppy drive. You are also powering the video card.
I suspect (as Phillpower2) that there is an issue with the psu.
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