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Thermal Event. Thermal paste replaced, still unsolved


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#16
chromejael

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@phillpower2, Ok, I will re-apply the thermal paste after I troubleshoot the fan issue. Or should I re-apply the thermal paste first, before we continue to troubleshoot the fan issue?

Just to clarify the fans you were referring to, using this photo as an aid:
http://bayimg.com/FAnbjaaEG

I have 4 fans right? The one at the top (PSU), one on the left, one in the middle (With Intel logo on it), and one on the far-right bottom near the harddrives.
The 3 fans you were referring to does not include the cooling block fan (Intel logo) am I right? (This one - http://bayimg.com/FAnbMAAEg )
Sorry, I'm might have gotten the terms mixed up, just wanted to clarify :)

@123Runner, Yes, there are 2 DVD drives, 1 floppy drive, 4 Harddrives, and 1 graphics card currently inside my desktop case.
Seeing as I just need my PC to run long enough to transfer out all my files via USB, would it make a significant difference if I unplugged and physically removed the 2 DVD drives and floppy drive?
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#17
phillpower2

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I suggest that you clean off and reapply the thermal paste correctly first, as I said earlier I do not believe that the thermal paste was or is the cause of the issue but having too much thermal paste is as bad as not having enough and especially if it comes into contact with something that it shouldn`t such as the pins on the CPU or the socket.

Sorry but I can only see 3 cooling fans;

Disconnecting as many devices as you can while you transfer your data is a sensible option, just keep the HDD with the OS on it + one HDD at a time to transfer the data from that to your USB device, that is if the computer will stay on long enough.
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#18
Veeg

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@ 123 you may be on to something here,but not the wattage itself (which is low btw) but since he has been running this pc for 5 years with the same psu maybe...This maybe a overheating issue as well with the psu... Chrome... on your first post of speedfan your 12 volt was a little low and the temps high,on your 2nd shot of speedfan it was showing the your 12 volts went back up after cooling off...Seen many of post regarding this and i would still keep an eye out on the cap...
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#19
chromejael

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@phillpower2 - Ok, I've cleaned-off and re-applied new thermal paste carefully. I've also removed the 2 DVD drives and Floppy drive. I didn't remove any of the 4 Harddrives because I wasn't sure where the OS was located. However, a thermal event still happened. Here are the details:

First, I removed the previous thermal paste, made sure the surface was clean, and applied it using the "pea-middle-dot" method. Then I booted up the PC, just to make sure it was running as usual. After it loaded up the start screen, I did a proper shut down. Total time was about 7 minutes. No thermal event occurred.

After that, I unplugged the PC again and began disconnecting and removing the floppy drive and disk drives. About an hour later, I booted up the PC, again, just to be sure everything was still running as usual. Did a proper shutdown, total time on was also about 7 minutes. No thermal event occured.

An hour later, I did another check. I booted it up, and 2 minutes later, thermal event happened.

So, I guess we troubleshoot the fans now.

Here, I've circled all the fans in my CPU case : http://bayimg.com/eANaOaaeH

What do I do next?
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#20
phillpower2

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Thanks for the update which also points out the fourth cooling fan :thumbsup:

I would now disconnect all of the HDDs as well as the two optical and floppy drive/s, restart the computer, leave it running and check the behavior of each cooling fan, predominantly the PSU and CPU fan/s, take care while doing this please and do not reach inside the case at any time while the power cord is connected.

Let us know the outcome and how the fans function before you do anything else.
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#21
chromejael

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Just to be clear, I disconnect ALL 4 of the HDDs, then turn on the computer?

and by PSU and CPU fan, do you mean the top and the "Intel" fan in the centre, repectively? http://bayimg.com/eANaOaaeH

How do I check the behaviour of the fan? By sound, or is there something I should lookout for specifically?
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#22
phillpower2

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Just to be clear, I disconnect ALL 4 of the HDDs, then turn on the computer?

Correct, obviously the computer will not boot and the idea is to see if easing the load on the PSU either stops or even delays the computer shutting down, once you have done this check and updated your topic we will know how you should proceed.

and by PSU and CPU fan, do you mean the top and the "Intel" fan in the centre, repectively?

Correct.

How do I check the behavior of the fan? By sound, or is there something I should lookout for specifically?

The Intel CPU fan is easy to see working so will pose no problem, the PSU fan you can place your hand to the outside - rear of the case to see if warm air is being expelled from the unit + look into the internal opening that has the protective guard on it ( as circled in your screenshot) keep a particularly close watch on the PSU fan if and when the computer either shuts down itself or if you turn the power off manually.
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#23
chromejael

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Ok, I unplugged all the HDDs, and the the SATA/IDE cables from the motherboard itself.
Then I turned on the PC, and let it load up until it reached black screen that displayed this message "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device".
Then I just left the PC as is, with the message still displayed there, and proceeded to inspect the fans.
s
As far as I could see, all the fans were spinning as usual, there were no "dead fans".
The CPU fan looked normal, as far as I could tell.
The PSU fan also looked normal, as far as I could tell. Both the PSU fans, the one with the golden grill, and the one blowing air out, were spinning as they should, nothing abnormal. The fan was blowing out warm air, I could feel it when I put my hand near it.

To shut down, I just pressed the power button on the CPU.
As it shut down, the fans stopped spinning, nothing abnormal as fas as I could tell.
I didn't know what to look out for, so I just looked at which fan stopped spinning first.
When I pressed the power button, the PSU fan was the first to stop spinning completely, followed very closely by the CPU fan. This may or may not be of importance, I don't know.

Other than that, that's as much as I can tell you from my observation. As far as speed is concern, to me all the fans were spinning very fast, there were no abnormally slow-spinning fans. How fast exactly, that I couldn't tell.

The PC ran for about 2 hours non-stop, without auto shutting-down.

I forgot to mention that I did, at one time, did a test and left the PC on, with DVD drives, floppy drives, HDDs, all still attached. Once it loaded past the welcome screen, I just let it be and did nothing. I left it on for 3 hours straight, followed by a voluntary shutdown. I guess it stays on if I do absolutely nothing, but once I started doing something like web browsing, or checking some files, thats the time when its most likely to happen.
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#24
phillpower2

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Thanks for the update :thumbsup:

The results suggest that the PSU cannot provide enough clean and stable power when there are too many devices connected to it.

If you cannot remember which HDD has the OS on it you will need to check each HDD individually until you identify the correct drive, start with the top HDD nearest to the CPU, reconnect that HDD only and see if the computer boots, if the computer does boot up due to having the OS on it use the computer as you would normally and see how it behaves.

If the computer does not boot shut it down, disconnect the first HDD, connect the HDD directly beneath it and repeat the same process that you did with the first HDD, do this until the computer boots so that you can use it for a while and post back with an update for us.

NB: For now please leave the optical and floppy drive/s disconnected.
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#25
chromejael

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Yup, I don't plan to reconnect the floppy or DVD drives at all, since all my files are on the HDDs.

So I did as you told me to, and reconnected each drive one at a time to find the OS.

I have 2 SATA HDDs and 2 IDE HDDs, so I started with the SATA first.

I connected one of the SATA drives first, and started up the computer. After a while, it loaded to a black screen , and a blinking underscore on the top-left corner of the screen. I waited 2-3 minutes, and the underscore was still blinking, so I think this wasn't the drive with the OS.

Then I connected the 2nd SATA drive, and after a while, it booted up all the way to the welcome screen, and the start screen with my desktop still intact. So I think this is the drive with the OS.

It's an 80 GB Western Digital WD800, with SATA pins. It has 2 partitions (correct me if I used the term wrongly), the C: drive and D: drive.

Everything seemed to be working as usual. I checked out some files, it looked fine. I did a voluntary restart, and it booted up normally. After it loaded all the way up to my desktop, I just left it alone and did not run any operations or do anything for almost 90 minutes. No auto-shutdowns occured at all.

What should I do next?
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#26
chromejael

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Wait, I was wrong. Minutes after I posted my update on geekstogo using my laptop, my desktop PC had a thermal event shutdown :(

As I said before, after the 90 minute run, I did a voluntary shutdown. After 15 minutes, as I had just finish posting an update here, I turned it on again. It loaded all the way up to the start screen and desktop. After 10 minutes, as I was just doing a simple right-click refresh, it auto-shutdown due to a thermal event :(

What do I do next?
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#27
phillpower2

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After the PC has been off for a while and had a chance to fully cool down, reconnect an optical drive that is capable of burning a disk and create an image of the present HDD that has the OS installed on it, a free software to do this http://www.macrium.c...eflectfree.aspx

I strongly suggest meanwhile that you obtain a good quality brand PSU that is capable of supporting all of your hardware - I recommend the use of a minimum bronze rated PSU for peace of mind.

Not sure when I will be back online today as I have business to take care of, one of the other kind folk may drop in meanwhile.

Tip;

If you have something to add while waiting for a reply use the edit tab – bottom right of the dialogue input box and this will ensure that an update on a previous page is not overlooked, thank you for understanding.


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#28
chromejael

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May I ask in advance what is the final aim we are heading towards with these steps, burning image on disc etc.?

I'm asking because, at this point, when the solution is to simply buy a new PSU, I was thinking of just buying an external IDE HDD case to just pull out my data, and I already have some spare SATA cases lying around.

Could you just give a me rough outline of steps towards the solution that we're trying to aim for?
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#29
Veeg

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May I ask in advance what is the final aim we are heading towards with these steps, burning image on disc etc.?

I'm asking because, at this point, when the solution is to simply buy a new PSU, I was thinking of just buying an external IDE HDD case to just pull out my data, and I already have some spare SATA cases lying around.

Could you just give a me rough outline of steps towards the solution that we're trying to aim for?


Of course without getting our hands on your pc,we can only use our opinions here. It could be your psu over heating,but i don't of any sensors connected to a psu that gives a thermal shutdown error,but on the other hand they're sensors thru out the mobo that would which would bring us back to that bulged cap... If you feel you need an external HDD to save your data,maybe thats a good idea and if you have data you want to keep..
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#30
phillpower2

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May I ask in advance what is the final aim we are heading towards with these steps, burning image on disc etc.?

I'm asking because, at this point, when the solution is to simply buy a new PSU, I was thinking of just buying an external IDE HDD case to just pull out my data, and I already have some spare SATA cases lying around.

Could you just give a me rough outline of steps towards the solution that we're trying to aim for?

When you purchase or build a new computer the first thing that you should do is create a back up image of the HDD in case of system failure, if the present PSU or suspect capacitor pop while you are troubleshooting the rest of the hardware could be taken out with it, it is a standard safety measure that costs very little to do but is very good insurance.

Borrow a known good PSU for testing purposes if you can or have yours properly tested by a local tech store, many will do this for free or a small fee.
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