[Sode no Shirayuki]

- What do you mean sharing different volumes?

 

- I thought two operating systems that are dual-booted had to share a boot loader. That way either can be selected from a menu after the bios hands control over. When I got help from a user in Linux Mint's IRC help chat, he told me to install the grub menu on /dev/sda, Windows' location. Is there another way?

 

- I have one disc for Windows XP from the manufacturer Dell. I downloaded a Windows 8.1 executable from my Microsoft account, ran it, and it created an ISO file for me to burn to a disc. I don't have any interest in Windows XP though. There's no point to it when I have Windows 8.1. I'd rather dual-boot with a Linux distro.

 

- My important data is on an external hard disk. There may be a few files I want that's on my main drive. I can copy them to the external drive if I there is.

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Gday.

 

 

What do you mean sharing different volumes

A partition is an area of hard disk reserved for use via an entry in the partition table of that hard disk. Each operating system may recognize and use partitions of various types; the 'partition' concept is system-wide, not limited to a particular operating system.

The partition table is a list of 4 possible partitions that is held within the first sector of the hard drive, and is normally interpreted by code within the same sector if that hard drive is booted.

In contrast, a volume is an operating system concept. DOS and Windows maps drive letters to volumes, and in this sense, a volume is any entity that has a drive letter mapped to it.

A non-removable local disk volume may be a primary partition, a logical volume within an extended partition, or a file within another volume that is treated as a disk volume via disk compression or other driver-level software.

A removable local disk volume may be a CD, diskette, Zip disk, etc. or may be something plugged into a PCMCIA or PC Card slot.

 

So sharing the MBR, drivers etc, except files and folders, will result in an unstable system.

 

 

I thought two operating systems that are dual-booted had to share a boot loader. That way either can be selected from a menu after the bios hands control over. When I got help from a user in Linux Mint's IRC help chat, he told me to install the grub menu on /dev/sda, Windows' location. Is there another way?

They can share a Boot Loader (Boot Manager) but there are other ways. You had not mentioned you were Dual Booting.  

> http://www.zdnet.com...nux-7000026392/

NB. The part about types of BIOS.   Are you able to use the UEFI BIOS on your W8 installation?

 

 

 

but I can't boot into Windows XP without he drive that has Windows 8.1 installed. I think it's because Windows XP is using Windows 8.1's boot loader. I get error code 0x000000e.

I suspect the path \Windows\system32\winload.exe could not be found from the MBR on the XP drive.

 

Info.

Boot Manager. > http://pcsupport.abo...b/g/bootmgr.htm

MBR. > http://pcsupport.abo...sterbootrec.htm

 

As you are not going to use XP, suggest you completely disconnect that drive so will not interfere with any troubleshooting.  

 

Is you original system a Dell Dimensions, XPS 410?

When you installed W8, Where did you get the MB drivers from? 

Consider a fresh install of W8, get it up and running, then look at installing a Linux Distro.

[iammykyl]

Gday.

 

 

What do you mean sharing different volumes

A partition is an area of hard disk reserved for use via an entry in the partition table of that hard disk. Each operating system may recognize and use partitions of various types; the 'partition' concept is system-wide, not limited to a particular operating system.

The partition table is a list of 4 possible partitions that is held within the first sector of the hard drive, and is normally interpreted by code within the same sector if that hard drive is booted.

In contrast, a volume is an operating system concept. DOS and Windows maps drive letters to volumes, and in this sense, a volume is any entity that has a drive letter mapped to it.

A non-removable local disk volume may be a primary partition, a logical volume within an extended partition, or a file within another volume that is treated as a disk volume via disk compression or other driver-level software.

A removable local disk volume may be a CD, diskette, Zip disk, etc. or may be something plugged into a PCMCIA or PC Card slot.

 

So sharing the MBR, drivers etc, except files and folders, will result in an unstable system.

 

 

I thought two operating systems that are dual-booted had to share a boot loader. That way either can be selected from a menu after the bios hands control over. When I got help from a user in Linux Mint's IRC help chat, he told me to install the grub menu on /dev/sda, Windows' location. Is there another way?

They can share a Boot Loader (Boot Manager) but there are other ways. You had not mentioned you were Dual Booting.  

> http://www.zdnet.com...nux-7000026392/

NB. The part about types of BIOS.   Are you able to use the UEFI BIOS on your W8 installation?

 

 

 

but I can't boot into Windows XP without he drive that has Windows 8.1 installed. I think it's because Windows XP is using Windows 8.1's boot loader. I get error code 0x000000e.

I suspect the path \Windows\system32\winload.exe could not be found from the MBR on the XP drive.

 

Info.

Boot Manager. > http://pcsupport.abo...b/g/bootmgr.htm

MBR. > http://pcsupport.abo...sterbootrec.htm

 

As you are not going to use XP, suggest you completely disconnect that drive so will not interfere with any troubleshooting.  

 

Is you original system a Dell Dimensions, XPS 410?

When you installed W8, Where did you get the MB drivers from? 

Consider a fresh install of W8, get it up and running, then look at installing a Linux Distro.

[Sode no Shirayuki]

1) Is this why when I boot into Windows XP, Windows XP uses the C: volume while Windows 8.1 uses another volume; and when I boot into Windows 8.1, Windows 8.1 uses the C: volume instead while Windows XP uses another? It confused me because I often access a different volume than I wanted to access.

 

2) I didn't know I could use UEFI. I thought it was shipped with and limited to more recent motherboards. I have no idea how I would use it on my system, if I can use it.

 

3) Yes, I have a Dell XPS 410. Everything is stock except for the Radeon 6450 graphics card, which I recently picked up. I'm not sure what "MB" stands for, but I didn't do anything after I went through the Windows 8.1 installation process. It did everything on its own, and it worked right out of the box.

 

Note: I performed an in-place install of Windows 8.1 just a few days ago, as suggested by another user because he found evidence of corruption in the OS. The in-place install solved the issues I was having at the time, which were missing entries from "Enable and disable Windows features" and the inability to install Windows update KB2919355 through Windows update. Is a fresh install of Windows 8.1 different somehow, besides losing my programs? Should I proceed with a fresh install?

 

Edit:

 

I cannot boot without the disk that has Windows XP, too. I get "unknown filesystem" error while the BIOS has control.

Edited by Sode no Shirayuki, 26 April 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[Sode no Shirayuki]

I made a mistake in my last post. I replaced the RAM in the system not too long ago.

[iammykyl]

 

 

I downloaded a Windows 8.1 executable from my Microsoft account, ran it, and it created an ISO file for me to burn to a disc.

Please check the version you have downloaded.   AS you are planning a new build soon, and you have already installed the OS on the old MB, there may be limitations on installing to a new MB.

 

 

2) I didn't know I could use UEFI. I thought it was shipped with and limited to more recent motherboards. I have no idea how I would use it on my system, if I can use it.

You are right, dumb question from me, forgot you had an older board.

 

 

I cannot boot without the disk that has Windows XP, too. I get "unknown filesystem" error while the BIOS has control.

I take it that you mean you have disconnected the HDD where XP is installed.   I think this would answer your first question, Could be GRUB can't find a Path or file, 

 

 

Note: I performed an in-place install of Windows 8.1 just a few days ago, as suggested by another user because he found evidence of corruption in the OS. The in-place install solved the issues I was having at the time, which were missing entries from "Enable and disable Windows features" and the inability to install Windows update KB2919355 through Windows update. Is a fresh install of Windows 8.1 different somehow, besides losing my programs? Should I proceed with a fresh install?

Did I miss that post somehow?   Don't know exactly what the procedure was, so can't give an answer.   Re. A fresh install? see comments, bottom.

 

 

3) Yes, I have a Dell XPS 410. Everything is stock except for the Radeon 6450 graphics card, which I recently picked up. I'm not sure what "MB" stands for, but I didn't do anything after I went through the Windows 8.1 installation process. It did everything on its own, and it worked right out of the box.

Usually, after you install the OS, you need to use the MB (Motherboard) driver/utility disc to install, Chipset/LAN/etc.

Not sure about this, but Perhaps as you did a in place install, any existing drivers were not wiped out or, W8 is using the drivers from the XP HDD, ORMicrosoft Generic drivers. 

 

 

I made a mistake in my last post. I replaced the RAM in the system not too long ago.

So it is clear, what RAM is now being used? has it passed Mentesting?

 

Comments.

 

I am going to seek some advice on whether the MB can support W8 as I can't find any newer drivers than Vista.

So, do not do a fresh install, as you may end up with no working system.

[phillpower2]

Provide an updated Speccy url for us please.

 

Which partition (drive letter) is XP on.

 

Observations/things that may explain your stability issues with Windows 8.1 may include;

 

The latest drivers released by Dell for the XPS 410 are for 32 and 64 - bit Vista.

 

(Information only) Dell only produced Windows 7 drivers for the following model numbers in the XPS desktop range: 625 630 730 730X

 

The Radeon 6450 supports up to DirectX 11 and the Nvidea LE 7300 only DirectX 9 so neither are DirectX 11.2 capable.

 

To determine the version of DirectX you have running:
1. Click on the Start menu, then "Run".
2. In the "Run" box type "dxdiag" (without the quotes) and click "Ok". This will open up the DirectX Diagnostic Tool.
3. In the System tab, listed under the "System Information" heading you should see a "DirectX Version" listed.

[Sode no Shirayuki]

@iammykyl

 

1) I have the full version of Windows 8.1. The one that can be transferred between motherboards provided I let Microsoft know.

 

2) That is right. I disconnected the drive that has Windows XP installed. Neither operating system will boot without the other unless, I suppose, I repair the MBR. I think I had to do that back when I dual-booted Windows XP with a Linux distro and removed Linux. I don't remember how I did it though.

 

3) I didn't upgrade from any version of Windows (including Windows 8) to Windows 8.1. I purchased the full version of Windows 8.1 through the Microsoft store. Before I purchased it, I ran the Windows 8 update assistant, and it verified that my computer is indeed compatible. The in-place install was performed after because I was experiencing some issues. This is a link to the thread about this.

 

4) I had to use the driver disc that came with my computer for Windows XP, but not for Windows 8.1. Windows 8.1 did everything on its own. There are no error messages in the Device Manager. I performed a fresh install of Windows 8.1 on an unoccupied hard disk.

 

5) I purchased the RAM through Amazon from All4deals. IIRC, the RAM has a lifetime warranty. I'm not sure what "mentesting" is, but the RAM I purchased had been tested specifically for use with the Dell XPS 410 and was advertised as such.

 

Note: According to the Windows 8 update assistant, my hardware is compatible with Windows 8.

[Sode no Shirayuki]

@phillpower2

 

1) When I booted into Windows XP, Windows XP is using the C: drive letter, and Windows 8.1 is using the D: drive letter. But when I booted into Windows 8.1, Windows 8.1 is using the C: drive letter, and Windows XP is using the D: drive letter.

 

2) The DirectX version is stated to be 11 (without any decimal), but I don't think that's the version I have. I have the full version of Windows 8.1, and I'm pretty sure DirectX 11.2 is shipped with Windows 8.1. I'm not sure whether it's relevant, but dxdiag doesn't report any issues.

 

http://speccy.pirifo...V312bBzl7VfIE8v

Edited by Sode no Shirayuki, 27 April 2014 - 11:00 AM.

[phillpower2]

1: We need your updated Speccy report before commenting on this.

 

2: DirectX 11.2 is indeed an integral part of Windows 8.1 but it is not compatible with your hardware and so it is not being used, hence the reason why dxdiag reported DirectX 11 as being used, if Windows 8.1 did not allow DirectX 11 to run your computer would be inoperable.

[Sode no Shirayuki]

1) I provided the Speccy report in my previous post.

 

2) That would explain why it's displaying DirectX 11 and not 11.2. Wouldn't this mean that the Radeon 6450 not supporting DirectX 11.2 isn't the issue here since Windows falls back to DirectX 11, which the card does support?

 

Update:

 

I booted into Windows XP to double check the assigned drive letters.

 

  When booted in Windows 8.1:

 

Windows 8.1 = C:

 

Windows XP = D:

 

Data partition (Located on the same physical disk as Windows 8.1) = E:

 

  When booted in Windows XP:

 

Windows XP = C:

 

Data partition (Located on same physical disk as Windows 8.1) = D:

 

Windows 8.1 = E:

 

 

  So, my drive letters shift depending on the operating system that is currently in use. It makes accessing a specific drive confusing.

Edited by Sode no Shirayuki, 27 April 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[phillpower2]

1: Acknowledged.

 

2: That is correct, all it means is that your graphics card and games will not perform as well as a card and games etc that are 11.2 capable.

 

The drive letters changing is normal behaviour as whichever version of Windows that you boot from will see itself as being on the C: drive, it is important to remember when dual booting that the older OS must be installed first;

 

 

Warning

• You must install the older operating system first, and then install the more recent operating system. If you don't (for example, if you install Windows Vista on a computer already running Windows 7), you can render your system inoperable. This can happen because earlier versions of Windows don't recognize the startup files used in more recent versions of Windows and can overwrite them.

 

[iammykyl]

Gday Mates.

Thank you Phillpower2 for the review and clarifications, especially the drive letter changes.

 

Sode no Shirayuki

Thanks for the updates.

 

 

5) I purchased the RAM through Amazon from All4deals. IIRC, the RAM has a lifetime warranty. I'm not sure what "mentesting" is, but the RAM I purchased had been tested specifically for use with the Dell XPS 410 and was advertised as such.

If you had not already done so as a basic troubleshooting step, I meant testing the Memory > http://rog.asus.com/...g-motherboards/

 

Your Speccy scan looks good, I see you have the 6450 installed, Are you still getting the black lines? This no longer looks like a driver issue, I still suspect a tired or inadequate PSU.   It only produces 30 Amps on the 12v rails and am unable to determine how it it distributed.   Without a test (under full load) or swappping in a known working one, I would not rule it out as the GPU issue.

 

How do you want to proceed?

.

If you decide on a fresh install, please consider.

W8 on the C drive, no partitions.

Data on the E drive, no partitions. Shared with windows and Linux.

A Linux Distro on a 64GB USB 3.0 stick.

No need for any Boot Manage, 

You can take your Linux OS anywhere, use on any computer/laptop, next time used on your main system, copy files to the Data drive, all can be backed up to your external backup drive.

[Sode no Shirayuki]

1) I ran memtest+. I allowed it run for 2 cycles and no errors were ofund.

 

2) I have never seen black lines when using the Asus Radeon 6450. The black lines seem to have been a hardware issue with the XFX Radeon 6450. I see a white flash, rarely a black flash in place of a white flash, when switching between tabs in Firefox and when restoring Firefox. I have seen this with both Radeon cards.

 

I've been playing around with a Linux Mint KDE live CD. Interestingly, I found that the white flash does not occur when restoring Firefox. However, it does occur when switching tabs although it seems to only occur when switching between a light and dark tab and is less noticeable than on Windows 8.1.

 

I tried to capture the issue on video but to no avail. Neither program I used showed the flash after the video was saved to file. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it. Firefox's window (tabs, webpage, toolbars, and title bar) starts off white then displays the content instead of immediately displaying content. It results in a bright, glossy white flash-like effect that's annoying, distracting, and difficult on the eyes after a while. Strangely, it doesn't happen with every program. I've only seen it occur in browsers including Pale Moon, Firefox, Google Chrome (Google Chrome is actually flashing glossy black instead of white at the time of this post); and Kingsoft Office thus far. Unfortunately, these are some of the worse applications to see this effect in.

 

3) Do you mean put Windows 8.1 on one physical disk and data on the second physical disk, and create a USB stick loaded with Linux? I don't have a 64GB USB stick. For now, I might perform a fresh install of Windows 8.1 on the one physical drive with no partitions to see what happens. If this doesn't work, the only other thing I can think of trying is the nVidia card. The nVidia card is listed at 300 watts compared to the 400 watts the Radeon card is listed at.

Edited by Sode no Shirayuki, 28 April 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[iammykyl]

1) I ran memtest+. I allowed it run for 2 cycles and no errors were ofund.

Good.   Takes the RAM out as beig a possible cause.

 

I've been playing around with a Linux Mint KDE live CD. Interestingly, I found that the white flash does not occur when restoring Firefox. However, it does occur when switching tabs although it seems to only occur when switching between a light and dark tab and is less noticeable than on Windows 8.1.

I think less glitches because the Linux display drivers are being used.

 

Do you mean put Windows 8.1 on one physical disk and data on the second physical disk, and create a USB stick loaded with Linux? I don't have a 64GB USB stick. For now,

Yes to that configuration .  

USB sticks, > http://www.newegg.co...6^20-313-216-TS

 

For now, I might perform a fresh install of Windows 8.1 on the one physical drive with no partitions to see what happens.

Yes.   As W8 is installing drivers, (you said you did not have to use a MB driver disc) it should work OK providing you disconnect the drive that contains XP, this to insure the whole install goes on one drive.

[Sode no Shirayuki]

Alright, I'll provide an update after the fresh install. Did you happen to check the S.M.A.R.T status of my drives in the Speccy report? CrystalDiskInfo reports that the drives are good, but I don't understand the information in the tables. I'm not sure whether I should be concerned about it.