[Channeal]

Hello Phillpower2,

 

I have been a busy girl again, doing yet more cloning!

 

Do you want the good news first?........ No, actually I will let the screenshots tell you the current state of play........

 

This is my computer right now: -

 

 

I know..... it doesn't look amazingly promising! But this picture - from 5 minutes ago - looks a bit more

interesting: -

 

 

This would be great news - indeed it is wonderful news - but for the fact that the second screenshot was taken before the first. When I turn the larger drive back on, that becomes Drive C and the smaller drive reverts back to Drive D.

 

There is no way that it is going to let me change the title letter of drive C; it just tells me something to the effect that the letter of the drive with the system files on cannot be changed! 

Any ideas?

 

Still, it is very good news..... I have actually made some progress at last!!!!

 

Changing tack slightly for a minute..... my problem-solving brain still wants to solve the question of why the cloned files on the external drive would not boot up. The computer obviously recognises that Windows is on there, but just does not manage to boot into it <very irritating>. I was wondering.... do you think it might be any use trying again but letting the clone take over the whole drive, rather than resizing (although I do rather like having the data in a separate partition on there; that is really neat!). I could also, I guess, now try cloning from the smaller drive, now that too has Windows on there. Or, I could try using Acronis - which I don't think I have actually used on the external drive yet - just in case for some strange reason it likes external drives better than Macrium does: that way I get to try out using my Acronis CD as well! (You might possibly have realised by now that I do not like to give up and admit defeat on anything! )

 

All that can wait until I come back from my short break though........ I am off to sunny Bournemouth tomorrow - and am really hoping it will be sunny, as I would like to do lots of swimming: not sure the weather forecast is looking too hopeful for that though! Still, our main reason for going is to see one of my favourite singers perform, so that should be great even if it does rain!

 

Bye for now,

Chris

Edited by Channeal, 01 July 2014 - 03:49 AM.

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Apologies for the delay getting back to you folks, not been near a computer for two days due to other commitments 

 

First of all a big well done to you Channeal for both your determination and your successful clone 

 

Enjoy your break and we can catch up with this over the weekend at some point, you have achieved your objective by now having a working XP OS on the smaller HDD so until you actually need it leave the larger original C: drive offline and boot from the smaller new C: drive, delete the clone on the external HDD if you wish and try again using whichever software you like.

[phillpower2]

Apologies for the delay getting back to you folks, not been near a computer for two days due to other commitments 

 

First of all a big well done to you Channeal for both your determination and your successful clone 

 

Enjoy your break and we can catch up with this over the weekend at some point, you have achieved your objective by now having a working XP OS on the smaller HDD so until you actually need it leave the larger original C: drive offline and boot from the smaller new C: drive, delete the clone on the external HDD if you wish and try again using whichever software you like.

[Channeal]

Hello Phillpower2,

I am back home again after my short break away :-(

Yes.... I am still recovering from the shock of finally managing to carry out a successful clone! :-) I think it probably took me longer than it should have done.........but I am very pleased that I didn't give up; although I came close to it at one point!

I am definitely going to have another go with the external drive..... although I really have no idea whether I have much chance of succeeding there!

I look forward to hearing further from you about whether it will be possible to change the drive letters. No hurry though.....

Bye for now,
Chris.

[phillpower2]

Hello Channeal,

 

Hope you enjoyed your break 

 

The problem that you will have with the drive letters is that as long as you have XP on the larger HDD and the drive is enabled Windows will automatically allocate it the drive letter C:, this because it is deemed as the primary/master drive by having the original XP installation on it and by the motherboards BIOS by the drive most likely being connected to SATA port 0/1 on the motherboard (not all MBs use a port 0 identification number but begin with port 1 instead).

 

The plan from the outset was to use the smaller HDD for XP and the larger HDD for data storage only and that is why I have suggested that you leave the larger HDD disabled and boot from the smaller HDD, this is to make sure that you have no issues with your cloned XP, once you are 100% happy that all is well you can try cloning to the external HDD again but this time do it from the new smaller C: drive, once done you can format the larger HDD and allocate it an appropriate drive letter.

[Channeal]

Hello Phillpower2,

 

Yes, I enjoyed my short break very much, thank you. The weather was good most of the time too, apart from it being very windy....... and I even managed to get a swim on Thursday (although the water was pretty cold!) The gig on Thursday night was really excellent as well.

 

 

The problem that you will have with the drive letters is that as long as you have XP on the larger HDD and the drive is enabled Windows will automatically allocate it the drive letter C:, this because it is deemed as the primary/master drive by having the original XP installation on it and by the motherboards BIOS by the drive most likely being connected to SATA port 0/1 on the motherboard (not all MBs use a port 0 identification number but begin with port 1 instead).

 

Understood. The larger drive is indeed connected to port 0, whilst the smaller one is connected to port 2. This confused me a lot when I was making my first cloning attempt, as I (very stupidly) assumed that if the larger drive was connected to port 0, the second drive must be connected to port 1.

 

I was wondering one thing...... Just out of interest, I looked at how the Macrium program would deal with cloning from the smaller drive to the larger one and it looks as if it would then give the option of changing the drive letter of the larger drive. Assuming I really could do this, I presume that the computer would still then end up changing it back to C again, as there would probably never be an opportunity to change the smaller drive to C before the larger one was given that letter. Is that what would happen? (Sorry, not sure if I explained all that very well). I am not planning to try this at the moment by the way, it is just a hypothetical question at this stage.

 

 

The plan from the outset was to use the smaller HDD for XP and the larger HDD for data storage only and that is why I have suggested that you leave the larger HDD disabled and boot from the smaller HDD, this is to make sure that you have no issues with your cloned XP, once you are 100% happy that all is well you can try cloning to the external HDD again but this time do it from the new smaller C: drive, once done you can format the larger HDD and allocate it an appropriate drive letter.

 

Understood again. I really need to somehow find a way to get that rebellious external drive to boot up!

 

My problem at the moment is that before I read what you said about using the smaller drive for the time being, my husband started doing some work on the larger drive (he is producing catalogues for a charity auction & hog roast which takes place next Sunday lunchtime). Although I could switch his files over, I have realised that he has sent/received lots of emails in Outlook Express and that those he has sent will possibly not show up if I now switch to the smaller drive...... so for the time being, I will have to leave things as they are. I do have an untypically busy week coming up (usually my weeks are very uneventful!), so the likelihood is that I will not get much chance to do very much work on the computer.... although I might be able to squeeze in one more attempt at cloning to the external drive somewhere along the way. In readiness for this, I switched back-up copies of my data back to the larger drive again yesterday. (I have some 'World' music amongst my music files - and those files have been switched from one drive to another so many times recently that they have virtually gone all around the world themselves by now! )

 

I will let you know the results if and when I get a chance to do any work on this.

 

Have a good week,

Chris.

[Channeal]

Hello again Phillpower2,

This is just a brief update to say that after my last message, I changed my mind and swapped my husband's files over - so that we are now using the smaller drive with the larger one turned off. So far, all has seemed okay with that, apart from the fact that the shortcut on the desktop for Internet Explorer was missing and it took me quite a while to figure out how to get it back again!

The computer definitely starts up much faster using this drive...... and one other strange improvement has been related to sound. After you helped me sort my sound problems out (aeons ago now!), it took a while before I realised that the sound on videos e.g. on YouTube was still bad. I didn't want to tell you this, so I just left it - thinking I would find a way of sorting it out at a later date. To my surprise though, this problem does not seem to exist now we are using the smaller drive! :-) Very strange!

Bye for now,
Chris.

Edited by Channeal, 08 July 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[phillpower2]

Thanks for the update/s Channeal which I am pleased to see show that you have made improvements 

 

As ever take whatever time that you need with this as there are no time constraints 

[Channeal]

Hello Phillpower2,

 

I hope you are well and not working too hard.

 

I was unable to use the computer very much last week, as my husband was doing stuff for the auction (which was very fortunately very successful). Since Sunday though, I have been very busy.....

I have made 4 attempts at cloning (all cloning from the smaller drive to the external). First I used Macrium to clone just to the 50GB partition that was on there, then I cloned to the whole drive directly from my Acronis CD. After that, I used Macrium again, although this time I cloned to the whole drive as Acronis deleted the partitions. I then made one final attempt using a free, more up-to-date, version of Acronis especially for Western Digital drives. All of these attempts failed just as previously: the blue screen flashed up briefly, followed by the 'Windows was unable to start' screen.

I have been trying to search the internet for more information. I am still a little bit confused about whether it should be possible to do this at all..... I read somewhere that "When Windows XP boots, it reinitializes all USB devices. When doing so, all USB devices are momentarily disabled and turned off. When this happens, Windows loses access to the drive it is installed on and crashes."

 

I also found the following page which gives a solution to the problems with doing what we have been trying to do. It definitely looks way too advanced for me, but maybe you would like to read it: http://fsadventures....om-a-usb-drive/

 

I was thinking that if we decide that this is not possible, I could possibly clone from the smaller drive to the larger one but put the OS in a smaller partition and then make other partitions for my data. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

 

One way or another, we do seem to be a bit fated with all of this, do we not?

 

Bye for now,

Chris.

Edited by Channeal, 15 July 2014 - 02:10 AM.

[phillpower2]

Hi Channeal,

 

I honestly feel that you have spent enough time and effort in your attempt to have the computer boot from the USB HDD but it appears that it is not meant to be 

 

As long as you still have XP running ok on the new smaller C: drive and your personal data is backed up to the external HDD I would now format and partition the larger internal HDD and have it so that there was a large partition for data only and a smaller partition that you could then clone XP to from your C: drive once your data was safely saved to the larger partition.

[Channeal]

Hello Philpower2,

 

Many thanks for your last message.

 

 

I honestly feel that you have spent enough time and effort in your attempt to have the computer boot from the USB HDD but it appears that it is not meant to be 

 

Agreed one hundred percent..... Much as I do not like to admit defeat, there is obviously no point in going on trying to clone to the external drive at the moment    It would have been great if it had worked... but never mind: it is important to try, but not always so important to succeed! I have really enjoyed the whole process actually and I have learned so much along the way, so my time has certainly not been wasted.

 

I do however have the kind of mind that likes to get answers (even though I accept that sometimes there are none!). I really wish I could discern whether it is my external drive in particular which is not bootable.... or whether it is true what I have read about XP never being bootable on an external drive (at least not without major tweeks).... or whether there is some other unknown problem which has prevented me doing this.  I would just love to know the reason why though. Do you have any views about what you think the problem has been? Please tell me if you do..... I am actually considering buying another external drive (more about this below) and if I did do so it would be helpful to know whether to try again.

 

Whichever the reason is, I am still incredibly grateful to you for all your help and I am very sorry that from your side some of the effort you have put into helping me with this has partly been in vain.

 

 

As long as you still have XP running ok on the new smaller C: drive and your personal data is backed up to the external HDD I would now format and partition the larger internal HDD and have it so that there was a large partition for data only and a smaller partition that you could then clone XP to from your C: drive once your data was safely saved to the larger partition.

 

Unless I am very much mistaken (which admittedly as far as computers are concerned, I often am!) surely it is not possible to format the primary C drive, at least not in the normal way? I certainly do not know how to do this, but even if I could do it there are other possible problems.....

 

Firstly, once the partition with the OS on is added, would the computer not once again decide it is the main C drive, thus preventing me from booting from the smaller drive whenever the larger one is turned on?

 

Secondly, at the moment I am pretty worried about the safety of my data which at present is on both the larger drive and the external drive. I have serious concerns about whether the external drive (which is not that much different in age to our computer) is about to fail. I have questioned whether it has been a bit noisier than usual recently and the last couple of times that I have switched the data back and forth it has taken several hours - much, much longer than normal - to move. My worry is that if the drive fails once the data has been wiped from the larger drive, then all my data will be lost.

 

I think that there is probably not enough room on the smaller drive for the data (how much free space would I need to leave on a drive of 149 GB?). So, I am seriously considering buying a replacement external drive before doing anything else. I think that having had an external drive, we will want to continue to own one for sure..... but the question is whether this one is definitely in imminent danger of failing! From what I have told you, does it sound to you as if it is?

 

The further I go into all this stuff, the more I realise just how complicated and troublesome computers are! Still, I have had a terrible week (family problems concerning my children) and it puts into perspective for me just how unimportant all this computer stuff is in the big scheme of things.

 

Bye for now,

Chris.

 

PS Can you clone to a primary C drive (i.e from an external drive to a master C drive)?

[donetao]

Why are you cloning to an external USB drive? You will never be able to boot from that drive. If you had to restore your computer, you would have to take the drive out of the USB enclosure and replace the drive on your computer, and it is not sure to work.

If your goal is to be able to restore your compture as it was if your system disk dies or is corrupted, what you want to do is a disk and partition backup, not a clone.
As you set up your disk and partition backup, make sure to include *all* the partitions of your system disk (ATI will show you all of them, select all of them). You will also need an Acronis recovery CD that you have tested: you have booted your computer on it and you have successfully restored a couple of files from the backup above.

I'm really sorry to bust your dream,but at this time you can not clone a external drive and make it bootable. Maybe in the near future, but not today.

I'm sorry to once again reply on your topic, but I feel like I should inform you that it isn't possible. The above is a quote from Acronis staff.

Sorry Chris it won't work!!

All you need to know about HD's  http://www.ebay.com/...77629282/g.html

Edited by donetao, 17 July 2014 - 03:35 AM.

[Channeal]

Hi Donetau,
 
I am going to leave Phillpower2 to reply fully to your comment. All I will say is that I have read reams of stuff on the internet about whether or not this is possible and have myself expressed my own doubts. He however obviously genuinely believed that it was going to be possible and I have been trying to deal with this tactfully and with great respect to Phill because he has spent so much time and effort helping me.
 
I know you mean well and I am very grateful to you for trying to help me, but I am not sure that it is really a good idea to just come here and say that what we have been trying to do here was always doomed to failure!  Do you not think it might have been more tactful to have had a private conversation with Phill and express your concerns that way?

We are all here to help each other.... but you do have to consider other people's feelings as well.
 
Regards,
Chris

Edited by Channeal, 17 July 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[donetao]

I only want to help. Phill is a great guy and my friend. He is very smart and very busy. The bottom line is you can't clone a external drive and boot windows with it and Phill knows that. Computers are a big part of his life. The great respect was given by Phil to you and not you to Phill.

Let's just leave this. I replied because I wanted to help you. I have been following your thread for a long time. Phill answered you and you still wanted a answer. I gave you a honest and truthful answer. God Bless you Chris.

 

Quoted by my friend and colleague!

I honestly feel that you have spent enough time and effort in your attempt to have the computer boot from the USB HDD but it appears that it is not meant to be 

 

[Channeal]

Hi Donetau,

 

First of all, I am really sorry that you have taken this so badly. I never wanted to upset you, but I did feel strongly that if you have indeed been following this thread for a long time, then - as  Phillpower2 is apparently a friend of yours and as you say that you were certain from the very beginning that cloning to the external drive was not going to work - it would have been much kinder to have told your friend at the outset that this was not going to be possible. It may have saved both him and me a lot of unecessary time, actually! I am sorry now though that I said what I did: I guess it was just me not thinking straight as usual!

 

 

The bottom line is you can't clone a external drive and boot windows with it and Phill knows that.

 

I have to say that you appear to be under some misconceptions in spite of following this thread for a long time! It was Phillpower2 who suggested that I clone rather than just make an image -  and it was also most definitely him who advised me to clone to the external drive and who told me that it should be possible to boot into windows on the external drive. I had an Acronis back-up image on my external drive before all this started and Phillpower told me to delete it! Really, your difference of opinion over what we have been trying to do should be with your friend and not with me!

 

 

Phill answered you and you still wanted a answer.

 

My response to the part of Phillpower's last message which you quoted was not in any way to disagree with him, I was merely asking whether he knew the reason. At no point has he ever said to me that he now no longer believes that it is possible to clone to an external drive and make the clone bootable. It was actually always me who told him that I had seen websites saying it was not possible. To tell you the truth, I still have absolutely no idea whether Phillpower2 now believes that what he suggested I should do was always going to be impossible. Not that that matters in the slightest really, as I am certain that at the outset he really believed it was going to be possible and was only trying to help me by advising me that it would be a good idea to do it....

 

 

God Bless you Chris.

 

It is at least nice to see you say that, Donetau: that is not something you see written very often these days. God bless you too.

 

I always so hate upsetting anybody, no matter whom it might be........

 

 

The great respect was given by Phil to you and not you to Phill.

 

Phillpower2, I am really very sorry if you really do feel I have disrespected you as Donetau has accused me of doing. I am very sorry too for upsetting your friend (I am assuming that you two really are friends: 'friend' is a much abused word these days, particularly on the internet!).

 

I still remain incredibly grateful to you for helping me for so long.... I do however feel so upset by this that I think maybe it is best if we call it a day and I leave my computer just as it is now. I have probably been here way too long anyway......

 

Thank you once again for everything.

 

Take care,
Chris.

Edited by Channeal, 17 July 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[phillpower2]

Hello folks,

 

I am not ducking out here but I do need to ask if we can leave this until Saturday morning UK time, I have not long arrived home from work and now have H&S documents to produce by 7am in the morning 

 

No need for any adversity and I am 100% certain that none has been intended, if I recall correctly the inability of booting a cloned XP OS from an external HDD was discussed and that I stated that cloning software had evolved and so may now be possible, I have never used Acronis and so not aware of what it can & cannot do, Macrium Reflect on the other hand I am familiar with but alas have never personally used it to clone XP to an external USB HDD and for it to be bootable, Channeal has done wonders & made headway with cloning XP and donetao has offered a take on things, both yield positive and welcome input to the forum and at the end of the day is that not why we are all here