[Channeal]

Hello again and thank you for your message.

 

I have printed some info out and will take it with me on my long day tomorrow, as I may well get a few spare moments throughout the day.

 

 

Answer to both of the above: What we are going to be doing is creating an exact image of the C: drive on the smaller D: drive, this is the reason why you should get rid of anything on the C: drive that is no longer used, old programs that you no longer use for example, if there is nothing on it to be removed that is fine as long as all of the data will fit on the smaller present D: drive, I suggest Macrium Reflect free for this, the details are available here and you can familiarise yourself with them until you are ready to complete the task.

 

Okay, I will read about this..... but I guess that Macrium will do much the same as the Acronis program which I used yesterday to back up everything onto the external hard drive. It took very many hours to do it, so I had to leave it overnight.... but this morning I saw that it had completed the task successfully. (I am always surprised these days when the computer actually manages to do something I want it to!) Anyway, the whole drive including the operating system should be backed up on the external hard drive now.

 

Recently, so many tasks - defragmentation, various scans etc. - seem to take so much longer than they used to to complete. I suppose this must be down to having the new larger hard drive...... although to me, the length of time these jobs take now - compared to what they used to take - is out of proportion to the increase in the size of the drive, especially as the drive is nowhere near full. I guess this must just be my imagination though!

 

With regard to unused programs on the present C drive, we do not really have any as I did a lot of cleaning out of old programs when the computer woes first started, just in case anything was causing the problems. I am not really sure of the size situation at the moment and whether everything will fit onto the smaller drive, but if it doesn't then I will be happy to delete a few programs temporarily.

 

 

I did read your malware topic and so was aware of the Greek lessons btw

 

Ah! So you read that.... and remembered it! Your memory is obviously much, much better than my very poor one!

 

Cheers,

Chris.

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Hello Channeal,

 

You realistically only want/need your OS, Dell software and your most often used program/s on the C: drive, everything else should be saved direct to the D: drive and then backed up to the external HDD as you see fit, this protects your OS from possible data corruption, something that is even more important for XP now.

 

The above is how you would save your data after the transfer of XP either from the larger drive or external HDD to the smaller HDD.

 

Acronis should be your preferred method as you are obviously comfortable using it 

[phillpower2]

Hello Channeal,

 

You realistically only want/need your OS, Dell software and your most often used program/s on the C: drive, everything else should be saved direct to the D: drive and then backed up to the external HDD as you see fit, this protects your OS from possible data corruption, something that is even more important for XP now.

 

The above is how you would save your data after the transfer of XP either from the larger drive or external HDD to the smaller HDD.

 

Acronis should be your preferred method as you are obviously comfortable using it 

[Channeal]

Hi again,

 

Okay..... I got a bit confused for a moment there, before I realised you were talking about how the drives should be used in the future, once everything has been switched round.

 

I do not fully understand how exactly the new set-up will protect us from data corruption, but it is increasingly sounding like a good thing to do!

 

You seem to be suggesting that it is possible to keep some programs on the second hard drive. I was coincidentally wondering about this the other day and actually looked at the system files on the present drive D and noted that there does not seem to a 'Programs' folder amongst the system files on there, so I thought it was not possible.

 

I looked at the size of the drives. Drive C is 465 GB (with 143 GB of that used up). The present drive D is shown as being 148 GB in total. The newly backed-up files (a mirror image of drive C) on the external hard drive show as 131 GB. That will only leave 17 GB free if the back-up files were put on the present drive D. Is that enough.... or am I not on right track at all with this?

 

Just to clarify because I still have a slight problem understanding the concept of backing up the whole computer..... once the present drive D has on it a mirror-image identical to the one I now have on the external drive - and the drive letter has been changed over to C - then will it immediately be all set up, or will something else need to be done before everything appears the same as it is on the present drive C. (I am learning so much here; I wish I had understood more when our hard drive went last year )

 

One last question..... will I have to do the complete Acronis procedure again, or can the back-up files on the external hard drive just be copied over.

 

No urgent need to answer this message by the way...... I am going to be tied up with other matters from now on until Friday, so any time when you aren't so busy will do (though I suspect that you guys are probably always busy!)

 

Cheers,

Chris.

[phillpower2]

Hello Channeal,

 

The idea of having XP on a separate HDD means that you will not be copying any data to it thus protecting any files from possibly being overwritten, accidentally deleted or heaven forbid infected by malware.

 

You are one step ahead already having backed up the entire C: drive to the external HDD so I will list the steps that you will need to do in numerical order, please note that you must confirm for yourself that there is nothing on the smaller D: drive that you have not backed up before you proceed;

1: Format the smaller D: drive.

2: Use Acronis** to create an image of the C: drive on the D: drive.

3: Change the drive letter of the larger HDD to something easily identifiable such as K and make a note of it.

4: Check that the smaller HDD has now been given the drive letter C:, if for some reason it hasn't change it manually using the steps here

5: Restart the computer and confirm that it boots from the new smaller C: drive.

 

** You must use suitable imaging software for the procedure as the transferred programs including XP will not run if simply copied across.

 

Post back with an update when done and any questions along the way please let us know.

[Channeal]

Hello Phillpower 2,

I have been a bit despondent about the proposed drive swap for the past few days. At one stage, I actually decided not to do it, though in the end I decided it was far too early to give up. I just did not feel I had all the information I needed and some aspects of what I am meant to be doing any time now troubled me......

In my last message, I wrote: -

 

 

I still have a slight problem understanding the concept of backing up the whole computer..... once the present drive D has on it a mirror-image identical to the one I now have on the external drive - and the drive letter has been changed over to C - then will it immediately be all set up, or will something else need to be done before everything appears the same as it is on the present drive C...........

I have been searching the internet, trying to find answers to the issues I (in my habitually inadequate way) raised above. I was not happy about how doing a back-up identical to the one I have just created on our external hard drive could result in a bootable drive. Something did not tie up to me. Eventually, I found my answers closer to home, in a manual for my Acronis program and I learned that I had been right to be concerned. If I am correct, the way to do it seems to be to use Acronis's specific cloning facility - something I did not even know existed before yesterday! The good news for me is that it looks as if cloning in this way should not be difficult, as long as I can use the automatic setting. The manual mode involves selecting various other choices and options along the way, so I do not think I could use that without further help and I am hoping that the automatic mode will suffice.

 

I looked at the size of the drives. Drive C is 465 GB (with 143 GB of that used up). The present drive D is shown as being 148 GB in total. The newly backed-up files (a mirror image of drive C) on the external hard drive show as 131 GB. That will only leave 17 GB free if the back-up files were put on the present drive D. Is that enough.... or am I not on right track at all with this?

I am afraid I do need to ask you again about how exactly I can find out whether the present Drive C files will fit onto the smaller disk. This size question is even more important now that I am using the 'Clone' option, as opposed to just backing everything up. I know that the backed-up files which are at present on the external drive total 131 GB which will just fit onto drive D, but will the different cloning method take up more space? Is there any way I can check this out in order to be absolutely certain? I do not want to wipe everything off Drive D and then find out that there is not enough room. If I need to delete anything first, I would much prefer to do it now.

I did manage to find instructions on how to format the disk and that looks as if it should be very easy to do (even for me!) - so that, at least, is one less thing for me to worry about!

I am really tring to find out as much info as possible about how to do everything by myself. I am always conscious of the fact that you are probably extremely busy and that some of my questions probably seem basic and stupid to you - and that I do not always express them very well, because I am not used to technical terms etc. I would really hate to be a nuisance; you guys have helped me so much and I really do feel that I have taken up more than my fair share of your time.

It would be so great if I could manage to do this successfully. Doing a job like this is something I would never have tacked not so long ago and it would be like the icing on the cake after all my recent computer struggles if I could manage to carry it off. If though I were to fail and maybe mess up the whole computer, it would seem as though all those struggles had been for nothing.

 

So.... no pressure!

 

Thanks again,

Chris.
 
 

[phillpower2]

Hello Channeal,

 

First and foremost it is important that you do not undertake any task unless you are 100% comfortable in doing so, you are under no obligation to do so after all  

 

You may recall that I suggested uninstalling any unused programs on the C: drive, this was to make sure that you had enough space on the smaller D: drive, you do have enough space on the D: drive for the clone but it will not leave enough free storage space to allow for file swapping etc, you need about 25GB of free space on the D: drive for this.

 

I do not use Acronis only Macrium Reflect + I do not know what particular Acronis product it is that you have thus meaning that you know more about what can and cannot be done with your Acronis software. 

 

If I am now understanding correctly what you transferred from the C: drive to the external HDD was not cloned but copied, is that correct.

 

Some information from Acronis here and whatsabyte here

[Channeal]

Hello again,

Busy, busy few days here... and a very welcome opportunity to not even think about computer stuff for a while!

First of all, I want to make it clear that I take full responsibility for not understanding well and for not communicating the reasons for my confusion to you adequately enough. I get very frustrated with myself for knowing so little and for struggling to explain well........

 

 

First and foremost it is important that you do not undertake any task unless you are 100% comfortable in doing so, you are under no obligation to do so after all

Absolutely, which is why I would not go ahead with this until I was absolutely clear about what needed to be done.

 

 

You may recall that I suggested uninstalling any unused programs on the C: drive, this was to make sure that you had enough space on the smaller D: drive, you do have enough space on the D: drive for the clone but it will not leave enough free storage space to allow for file swapping etc, you need about 25GB of free space on the D: drive for this.

I do indeed recall this.... but I really do not have any unwanted programs. If you are talking about temporarily deleting 25 GB then actually programs are not the place to look, as the total value for our programs is only 12.30 GB. On the other hand, My Documents is 9.40 GB, My Music is 19.10 GB and My Pictures is 65.10 GB (this includes some home videos also). I guess I could delete some of the files in My Pictures for the time being

 

 

 

I do not use Acronis only Macrium Reflect + I do not know what particular Acronis product it is that you have thus meaning that you know more about what can and cannot be done with your Acronis software.

Fair point....

Firstly, of course you cannot be expected to know everything about every possible program. I just never imagined that there would be any major differences between back-up programs. I thought they would all be pretty much the same.

Secondly, you are right that I should indeed know much more about Acronis then I do!    From my side though, I think the program is a bit confusing. When you first go into it, it shows some help files to the left, but these are limited and cannot be printed out easily (they are in lots of small pages, with just a few lines of text on each page), nor can they be saved to file. There is no obvious reference whatsoever to anything to do with cloning and until a few days ago I had no idea that there was such a thing as a cloning option in the program - or indeed that cloning itself existed. It was only when I finally thought to search for - and found - a full online manual That I was able to read about cloning. I subsequently learned that to get into the help files about cloning on my program itself (which is Acronis True Image 10, by the way) then I have to first click on Manage Hard Disks: more help files then magically appear! So easy when you know how.....

 

 

If I am now understanding correctly what you transferred from the C: drive to the external HDD was not cloned but copied, is that correct.

You know, even after reading lots of info both in the online manual and in the Acronis link you gave me about the difference between Backup and Disk Clone, I am still not absolutely one hundred percent sure how to answer this question.

I am going to copy some of the Acronis info at the end of this message, so if you want you can read through it. My understanding of from that though is that the option I always choose - which is called the 'My Computer' option - is not strictly speaking just a copy of files etc. To quote from the Acronis info below: 'Acronis True Image Home stores a sector-by-sector snapshot of the disk, which includes the operating system, registry, drivers, software applications and data files, as well as system areas hidden from the user. This procedure is called “creating a disk image,” and the resulting backup archive is often called a disk/partition image.'This does not sound to me the same as merely copying the files.

 

However.... the Acronis link you gave me does  say: 'When you create a backup with Acronis True Image or Acronis Backup & Recovery, you get a compressed .tib file containing an exact copy of your hard disk, a disk partition or individual files or folders (you make this choice when you create an image archive).' I guess from that then that what I have is indeed just a copy, albeit one which includes all the system files and everything.
 

 

 

Some information from Acronis here and whatsabyte here

Thanks very much for these links. I had already seen the whatsabyte one, but the Acronis comparison between back-ups and cloning was very helpful. It says that the cloning option should only be used when copying from one disk to another (as we propise to do), so I guess I was right to use what I did to back up on the external drive - even if it is only a copy!

 

You may recall me saying before that when our hard disk failed, I had no idea what to do with the Acronis back-up on the hard drive. I had no manual to refer to, apart from what was on the program CD itself - and therefore the back-up files were wasted and never used to restore anything. It looks as if we could have still have used the back-up files to restore everything, even though I now know that they were just a copy and not a clone.... but would have had to take our external drive into the shop at the time for them to do this.

 

######

I ran into a bad patch with this proposed project last week. It is a big fault of mine that I care too much about what other people think of me. Last week, I thought (although I do sometimes jump to the wrong conclusions) that you were not answering my questions because you thought they were stupid. This was quite a big project for somebody like me to take on; maybe it was a bit over-ambitious. I wanted to do it though because you convinced me that it was such a sensible thing to do, especially with the support for XP being withdrawn. I sort of got a sense though (and again perhaps I was wrong) that you were maybe getting a little bit impatient with me. I really would not blame you if you were; I am guessing that most people who approach the forum for help have quite a bit of technical knowledge already, so you are probably not so used to dealing with people like me who know very little. In addition, you and I are both quite sensitive to criticism.... so that in itself could be a big recipe for disaster!

But hey, I am going to be positive about myself (for a change!) now! I am in my sixties..... and the little I do know about computers, I had to teach myself as I had nobody to help me. I am not going to give up this current task now just because I lost confidence a bit last week.... I am made of stronger stuff than that! I feel I am getting somewhere now and am very close to reaching the point when I might feel able to start to get this project off the road. So, today I am determined to be happy and optimistic........

Can I ask you..... I would like to do this as much as possible stage-by-stage, rather than everything at once. If I start by only formatting the present D drive, I presume that will not affect the C drive in any way? I mean, it will presumably still boot up okay and enable us to use it, until such time as I am decide to move onto the next step?

Cheers,
Chris.

 

FROM ACRONIS ONLINE MANUAL

3.1 The difference between file archives and disk/partition images

A backup archive is a file or a group of files (also called in this guide “backups”), that contains a copy of selected file/folder data or a copy of all information stored on selected disks/partitions.

When you back up files and folders, only the data, along with the folder tree, is compressed and stored.
Backing up disks and partitions is performed in a different way: Acronis True Image Home stores a sector-by-sector snapshot of the disk, which includes the operating system, registry, drivers, software applications and data files, as well as system areas hidden from the user. This procedure is called “creating a disk image,” and the resulting backup archive is often called a disk/partition image.

Acronis True Image Home stores only those hard disk parts that contain data (for supported file systems). Further, it does not back up swap file information (pagefile.sys under Windows NT/2000/XP) and hiberfil.sys (a file that keeps RAM contents when the computer goes into hibernation). This reduces image size and speeds up image creation and restoration.

A partition image includes all files and folders independent of their attributes (including hidden and system files), boot record, FAT (file allocation table), root and the zero track of the hard disk with master boot record (MBR).
A disk image includes images of all disk partitions as well as the zero track with master boot record (MBR).

By default, files in all Acronis True Image Home archives have a “.tib” extension.

It is important to note that you can restore files and folders not only from file archives, but from disk/partition images, too. To do so, mount the image as a virtual disk (see Chapter 12. Exploring archives and mounting images) or start the image restoration and select Restore specified files or folders.


5.1 What data to back up?

If you are not concerned about restoration of your operating system along with all settings and applications, but plan to keep safe only certain data (the current project, for example), choose file-level backup. This will reduce the archive size, thus saving disk space and possibly reducing removable media costs.

Backing up the entire system disk (creating a disk image) takes more disk space but enables you to restore the system in minutes in case of severe data damage or hardware failure. Moreover, the imaging procedure is much faster than copying files, and may significantly speed the backup process when it comes to backing up large volumes of data (see above details in 3.1: The difference between file archives and disk/partition images).

Acronis True Image Home offers you backup of the following data categories:

My Computer (image backup of any set of disks/partitions)
My Data (file-level backup of any set of files and folders or an entire file category)
My Application Settings (file-level backup of Windows applications settings)
My E-mail (file-level backup of MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express settings and messages).
 

[phillpower2]

Hello Channeal,

 

For the moment we should leave the Acronis and cloning details to one side.

 

My Documents is 9.40 GB, My Music is 19.10 GB and My Pictures is 65.10 GB (this includes some home videos also). 

 

These are the sort of items that you do not want on the boot drive in any event, are they all backed up to the external HDD along with the 12.30 GB of programs.

 

I ran into a bad patch with this proposed project last week. It is a big fault of mine that I care too much about what other people think of me. Last week, I thought (although I do sometimes jump to the wrong conclusions) that you were not answering my questions because you thought they were stupid.

 

I never knowingly not reply to a question but I may inadvertently overlook replying to every question if there is a few of them.

 

Can I ask you..... I would like to do this as much as possible stage-by-stage, rather than everything at once. If I start by only formatting the present D drive, I presume that will not affect the C drive in any way?

 

Absolutely and it is in fact the correct procedure.

 

No information on the C: drive will be affected by formatting the D: drive.

 

Would it be possible for you to check if your computer is capable of booting from an external USB HDD, the reason that I ask is so that you could try and boot from the XP OS that you have already backed up to your external HDD, you would check this in the BIOS if you happen to be unsure.

[Channeal]

Hello and thank you for your message.

 

 

These are the sort of items that you do not want on the boot drive in any event, are they all backed up to the external HDD along with the 12.30 GB of programs.

 

Yes, they should all be backed up there, but I will double check before deleting.

 

 

Would it be possible for you to check if your computer is capable of booting from an external USB HDD, the reason that I ask is so that you could try and boot from the XP OS that you have already backed up to your external HDD, you would check this in the BIOS if you happen to be unsure.

 

 

 

I tried to check this out. The book sequence shows the option to boot from USB.

 

I have in my head though that you cannot boot from the back-up files. Not sure.... You can make bootable media in Acronis and the CD itself is bootable.

 

My biggest even computer mistake was in trying to boot from CD one time when we had a problem, maybe a virus. I must have inadvertently changed a setting or something because when I eventually contacted technical support they couldn't work out what was wrong. They even sent me two replacement hard drives and talked me through instaling them..... before eventually realising that a settting was wrong. I was pretty certain it must have been my fault! I am extremely wary now of trying to boot from CD or anything else!

 

Chris.

[phillpower2]

Hello Channeal,

 

The steps below will help you check if the XP on the external HDD is bootable, if it is not the BIOS will look for the next bootable device, the smaller D: drive does not presently have XP on it so that will be skipped and the computer will boot from the larger HDD C: drive, the steps are easily reversible and will not affect the data on the present C: drive.

 

To change the Boot Sequence in the BIOS

Reboot the system and at the first post screen (where it is counting up memory) start tapping the appropriate button that allows you to access the BIOS (Esc - Del – F2 etc)
This will enter you into the BIOS/CMOS
Find the Advanced area and click Enter
Look for Boot Sequence or Boot Options and highlight that click Enter
Now highlight the first drive and follow the directions on the bottom of the screen on how to modify it and change it to USB device.
Change the second drive to the smaller D: drive.
Once that is done then click F10 to Save and Exit
You will prompted to enter Y to verify Save and Exit.

Click Y and the system will now reboot with the new settings.

 

Let us know how you get on or if you have any questions.

[Channeal]

Hi again,

 

Okay, i will try this.... probably tomorrow as my husband is using the computer a lot today.

 

I actually printed out details of how to do this specific to my BIOs yesterday.... maybe slightly different from your instructions, but shouldn't be a problem.

 

Our external hard drive actually contains some back-up files for my daughter's computer as well (I have been pleading with her for ages to see if she needs to keep anything!). I am not sure if that would cause any problems, but hopefully not. My back-up in in a separate folder from hers.

 

I will let you know tomorrow how I get on with this.

 

Chris.

[phillpower2]

Hello Channeal,

 

No problem, all in your own time and any questions please ask.

[Channeal]

Good morning Phillpower2.

 

You will not be surprised to learn that I have more annoying questions even before I attempt to start this task! (I guess it helps me a little bit that I can at least laugh at myself )

 

Okay.... I went and looked at the current boot sequence and this is what I saw: -

 

1. Onboard or USB CD-ROM Drive

2. Onboard or USB Floppy Drive (not present)

3. Onboard SATA Hard Drive

4. Onboard IDE Hard Drive (not present)

5. USB Device.

 

Having read the above, I embarked on a frantic search to find out which drive was which without having to ask you, but I have not really got very far.....

 

Speccy tells me that I have got 2 drives which are apparently both SATA: -

    465GB Seagate ST500DM002-1BD142 (SATA)  
    149GB Western Digital WDC WD1600AAJS-75WAA0 (SATA)

 

So.......

 

In the current boot sequence, which drive is the D Drive?

 

What is the IDE drive and why does it show as not present?

(I am wondering if this could be the D drive and maybe shows as not present because it doesn't have an operating system on it.)

 

Is it usual to have the CD-ROM Drive and the non-existent Floppy Drive coming first in the sequence before the main drive?

 

 

 

I am in my normal happy state of complete confusion!

 

Chris.

[phillpower2]

Hello Channeal,

 

No worries ask as many questions as you need to 

 

In the current boot sequence, which drive is the D Drive?

 

The BIOS is showing that a SATA type HDD has been detected and not specifically identifying it as the C: or D: drive, if you highlight the SATA HDD option you will either see the two HDDs listed or only the present C: drive because it has the OS on it, not all BIOS is the same and brand names such as Dell and HP have their own versions of BIOS (they incorporate their logo into the splash screen etc) and the BIOS can vary from one model of Dell to another.

 

What is the IDE drive and why does it show as not present?

 

The BIOS chip has searched for but not detected an older IDE type HDD, this is normal on older computers that as part of the transition from IDE to SATA ports had both types of port for the benefit of the end user and to get rid of their stockpile of older IDE type devices.

 

 The HDD is most often first in the boot order but when an OS is reinstalled it needs to be CD/DVD drive first and the HDD second, this is so that the data can be read from the OS disk first and written to the HDD (the storage device) second.

Some BIOS will not let you move items up the list but instead will just identify an unbootable or none existent device as being "not present"

 

Hope this answers your questions ok. 

[Channeal]

Hello again Phillpower2,

 

Thanks very much for your reply.

 

Okay.... I went back into the BIOS and changed the boot sequence so that it now reads: -

 

1. USB Device.

2. Onboard SATA Hard Drive (no further details were available when this was highlighted)

3. Onboard or USB CD-ROM Drive

4. Onboard or USB Floppy Drive (not present)

5. Onboard IDE Hard Drive (not present)

 

When the computer started up though, everything was just the way it normallly is and I do not think that trying to boot up with the back-up files on the external hard drive worked.

 

This may or may not be relevant, but the other day I found this link: How to create an Acronis Bootable hard drive on a USB flashdrive and USB hard drive This looks complicated, but I would guess that the existence of these instructions means that the back-up files are not bootable without this procedure. You will understand much better than me though........

 

Chris.