[donetao]

Hello! I have not taken this badly; only when I try to tell the truth and am scolded . I only wanted to help. I do not like the concept of cloning as a way to have your OS protected. If your HD is failing and you want to replace it, then you might consider cloning. If my HD was failing, I would create a image on a external HD and restore that image on a new HD. I going to post my thoughts that I have posted on another topic here on our forum. I consider myself a expert on these things. The main reason a cloned external drive will not boot windows is the way it connects to the MB and I know of no way to install it in the PC in the first position. where the BIOS looks to boot your computer. I felt like I couldn't just let this topic go on without expressing my knowledge of this topic. I'm sure a hardware genius is figuring out how to do that. It will be great when that happens. Here are my thoughts which are quoted from the internet.

I feel like I need to post this reply. Every thing SleepyDude is telling you is correct. Once you get your new drive cloned, you need to read this for future protection.

I have never understood why people think they have to have their C Drive cloned and setting in a drawer, unless they are in a very big hurry to get their PC back up and running. I have a 1TB seagate external drive with at least 8 back up images that have been mounted and verified. I'm 99.99% sure that I can restore anyone of those images on my present HD or a brand new HD if my old HD dies, and it will be exactly like it was the day the image was created I consider myself a expert about these things. You mentioned being curious, so here's some thing to think about.

I hope it all goes as planned for you!!

Purpose of Imaging Hard Drives

Imaging a drive is more for backing up purposes.  The best way to use the computer imaging process would be to take an image of a healthy computer, copy that image file and put it in a safe place, then set up an incremental backup on the original image. 

The purpose of copying and saving the original image is in case you incrementally backed up a virus or some other form of scumware on the original image.  If that happened, you would still have the original image for restoration purposes without having to reinstall Windows and all of the other applications that have accumulated on your hard drive. 

Purpose of Cloning Hard Drives

Cloning a drive actually clones the entire contents of the drive to another drive or partition and does not create an image file.  Cloning a drive is useful to upgrade your hard drive or clone a failing drive to a new one.  The only issue with cloning is that you need to have two physical hard drives in the same computer (unless you have an external USB hard drive enclosure on hand). This review shows how to clone a laptop hard drive with a hard drive enclosure.

During the cloning process, you choose which drive you want to clone.  If you accidentally pick the new empty drive, and clone that to the original drive, you will totally overwrite all of your data.  No getting it back, it’s gone.  Been there done that – once.   This is why I recommend using the hard drive imaging process to upgrade a hard drive.  It adds an extra step but it is a safety measure as well. 

The Confusion

You can clone a hard drive using the imaging process. This is where the confusion may set in and the question arises about whether to clone or image. Acronis True Image include the cloning and imaging utilities. 

If you are upgrading your hard drive to a larger one, or replacing it due to the original drive starting to fail due to a physical failure, cloning is the easiest method to complete that task.  All you have to do is put the new drive in the computer as a slave or secondary drive and clone the old drive to the new one.  Once the process is complete, switch the new drive to the primary and you are good to go.  I can’t stress this enough; make sure you know which drive you are cloning so you do not overwrite the original drive. 

You can also accomplish the same task by imaging the old drive to an external drive and then switch internal drives. You can then use the Acronis or Ghost boot CD to restore the image to the new drive.  This is the recommended method of cloning if you are not quite sure what you are doing because it reduces the risk of any accidental data loss.

Edited by donetao, 17 July 2014 - 05:12 PM.

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Guys, I really want to apologise for yesterday.

 

I am very sorry I got upset.... it was a bit out of character for me, to be honest. I truly had had the week from [bleep], but had managed to stay really calm and positive in spite of all kinds of disasters unfolding around me..... then along came Donetau's message and for some reason it just got to.me! I don't know if either of you can understand how sometimes some completely unconnected thing can be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back? Well, that is kinda what happened to me here....

 

After all my attempts at trying to clone to the external hard drive, it just seemed very insensitive to me for someone else to come along and say "Well actually, I knew all along that this had no chance in [bleep] of working." The timing - just when I had finally given up - was not too brilliant to be honest, Donetau! Lol! I suspect too that you and I are probably complete opposites in character. That doesn't make one of us right and the other wrong; it simply means that we are different. However, we are both adults and should be able to get along here regardless of any differences. I acknowledge that your intentions were good and that you were only trying to help and I thank you for that. We need to forget this now and move on.

 

Phillpower2, I am so very sorry that you felt compelled to post a message last night in spite of having a huge amount of work to complete. I feel awkward and embarrassed and really quite stupid now, to be honest (but then, I think I have told you before that I am really stupid!)

 

Talking of being stupid, it would probably be exceedingly stupid to give up on my computer now, when I have made some progress (though I really did feel like giving up yesterday). I probably just need a few days to recover from this (and from my week-from-[bleep]) and then I will no doubt be back to normal again (though most people would probably say that I am never really a 'normal' person anyway! ).

 

Once again - to both of you - I am really, genuinely sorry.

 

Chris.

[Channeal]

Guys, I really want to apologise for yesterday.

 

I am very sorry I got upset.... it was a bit out of character for me, to be honest. I truly had had the week from [bleep], but had managed to stay really calm and positive in spite of all kinds of disasters unfolding around me..... then along came Donetau's message and for some reason it just got to.me! I don't know if either of you can understand how sometimes some completely unconnected thing can be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back? Well, that is kinda what happened to me here....

 

After all my attempts at trying to clone to the external hard drive, it just seemed very insensitive to me for someone else to come along and say "Well actually, I knew all along that this had no chance in [bleep] of working." The timing - just when I had finally given up - was not too brilliant to be honest, Donetau! Lol! I suspect too that you and I are probably complete opposites in character. That doesn't make one of us right and the other wrong; it simply means that we are different. However, we are both adults and should be able to get along here regardless of any differences. I acknowledge that your intentions were good and that you were only trying to help and I thank you for that. We need to forget this now and move on.

 

Phillpower2, I am so very sorry that you felt compelled to post a message last night in spite of having a huge amount of work to complete. I feel awkward and embarrassed and really quite stupid now, to be honest (but then, I think I have told you before that I am really stupid!)

 

Talking of being stupid, it would probably be exceedingly stupid to give up on my computer now, when I have made some progress (though I really did feel like giving up yesterday). I probably just need a few days to recover from this (and from my week-from-[bleep]) and then I will no doubt be back to normal again (though most people would probably say that I am never really a 'normal' person anyway! ).

 

Once again - to both of you - I am really, genuinely sorry.

 

Chris.

[donetao]

I wish you the best that this life can give you Chris. I consider myself a expert in cloning and imaging and if you ever have a question about Macrium Reflect, I'm sure Phill or I can help you. I work on printers and computers in my retirement village. I never charge one penny and I never will. They call me Gary the computer guy here in my village. The old farts here think I'm the best thing sense buttons on a shirt. I try to share knowledge here on the forum that I have learned and still learning.

PS I do a lot of paper jams!

[donetao]

Here's a little tidbit for those that have ears and want to learn!!

Uses of cloning

The word 'clone' often gets confused with backup and imaging. From the point of view of making a backup of your system so that you can recover individual files or restore your system in the even of failure, cloning is not the best way forward and it is recommended to make images of your system and then run subsequent incremental or differential backups to save disk space. Cloning is ideal if you have a mission critical system that you can not afford to go down for any length of time. Installing the system on one disk and data on another and then making a clone of the system disk means that in the event of failure of the system disk, you can simply swap it out for the clone and the system should be back up and running straight away. Since there is no concept of incremental or differential backups within the cloning world, any clone of a disk containing live data, would become obsolete quite quickly.

Edited by donetao, 18 July 2014 - 09:16 PM.

[phillpower2]

Hello folks,

 

Glad to see that any misunderstandings have been cleared up  

 

No need for any apology Chris but thank you for considering my workload   please post back when you are ready and we can move on, I do still feel that keeping the smaller HDD as the boot device and formatting the larger HDD is the way forward, an image/clone of XP can then be put on its own partition on the larger HDD as your back up, this will allow you to store data only on the larger HDD to which you then back up to your external HDD.

 

Thanks for sticking around and for providing the cloning information Gary the computer guy (GTCG )

 

PS I do a lot of paper jams! 

 

[donetao]

Hello friend!!

 

Good to see you Phill.

Some day I will convince you that creating a image is the way to go. Forget the cloning. Why have a HD laying around with a clone of your OS that will be out dated in a short time. If you clone a drive, then that's all you can put on it. You can't use it for storage.

Please forgive me if I have steeped on your toes. It was not my attention.

You're my man. You have excepted me from day one and you are appreciated and well thought of by this old man

donetao!

Edited by donetao, 19 July 2014 - 04:01 AM.

[phillpower2]

No problem Gary and you most certainly haven't stepped on anyone's toes 

 

Helping Chris is the prime objective and if creating an image does that then we are all happy 

 

Thank you for your kind words btw 

[Channeal]

Hello there!

You guys have been talkative while I have been away!

Gary, I am happy you are still around in spite of me saying all the wrong things before (believe me, I could get a degree in saying the wrong things!) I really have no argument whatsoever with you - although I am definitely not going to get drawn into any more discussions regarding the cloning v imaging question: I will leave that in the more than capable hands of you two gentlemen! Do let me know if you ever manage to change Phill's mind on this though!!! :-)

I think it is great that you like helping people with computers and that you are able to do so in your retirement village. (You should have been around when I was having a lot of fun with my printer!!! :-)) Which country do you come from, by the way? I always like to know where people are from!

Phill, I was really pleased and relieved to hear that you were not upset with me. Thank you for your patience.

I am not getting a lot of time to use the computer at the moment as our daughter is staying with us. She suffers from depression and is going through some difficult stuff at the moment and needs a lot of attention right now.........

I am ready to continue with the steps you have suggested as soon as I get an opportunity though, so please let me know what to do next. I am really intrigued about how you are going to tell me to format my (larger) drive C. I have read that you have to do it from outside windows, using a CD/disk. Is that correct?

I need to go and try to get some more sleep now, guys. I was woken up early by the seagulls who are nesting on our roof. I actually like the noise they make during the day..... but at 5 a.m. it isn't quite so lovely :-(

Bye for now,
Chris.

PS The external drive is still okay at the moment. It seems pretty hot when I touch it after it had been on for a.while though.

Edited by Channeal, 20 July 2014 - 12:07 AM.

[phillpower2]

Greetings,

 

Family comes first so no worries reply when you can 

 

Depending on the level of format required you can either format a storage device in Devices and drives by right clicking on it and then selecting Format or you can use one of the two methods as detailed here please note that it is vital that you confirm that the correct drive is being formatted and in this instance this could be done by ensuring that you are still booting from the new smaller C: drive and only formatting the larger capacity data only drive, can I please ask that you make sure that you check for any outstanding XP or malicious software removal tools for the new smaller C: drive before you do anything else.

 

The ambient temps are quite high here atm so as long as the external HDD does not burn you when you touch it you only need to keep a regular check on it.

[donetao]

Hello Phill!

If your wanting to erase and over write a drive, CCleaner has a tool to do that.

I have never used it. Don't know how good it is.

It says will over write as many as 35 times??

It also lists your drives, so shouldn't be any confusion

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[phillpower2]

Thanks Gary that is handy to know 

 

DBan is more suited to use when you are disposing of a HDD but it does do what it says which is to conclusively wipe your drive to such a point that only a real specialist could obtain anything from it.

[donetao]

Thanks Gary that is handy to know 

 

DBan is more suited to use when you are disposing of a HDD but it does do what it says which is to conclusively wipe your drive to such a point that only a real specialist could obtain anything from it.

Hello!!

 

I have DBan. I think CCleaner will do the same thing. Most people already have CCleaner

PS You can format from Disk Management by right clicking on the drive

I don't think it will allow you to format the C drive, so that's a good thing.

I guess this topic is still family originated and I'm welcomed  

Edited by donetao, 20 July 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[Channeal]

Hi Donetau,

I have only just seen your last sentence which I think may be directed towards me (I thought you guys were just happily chatting amongst yourselves!)

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what you mean by 'family originated'.... but it goes without saying that you are very welcome here and that I appreciate your trying to help. Last week was an exceptionally worrying and stressful week for me and I am afraid you caught me at a very bad moment. You ignored my last attempt to talk to you, so I assumed you were still angry with me.... but I can only say again that I really am genuinely sorry.

By the way, I took note of what you said to Phill about CCleaner. The problem with my computer though was that the C drive was actually the one we wanted to format. I have found a way to do it now though (more on that subject when I get time, Phill!)

Bye for now,
Chris.

[donetao]

By the way, I took note of what you said to Phill about CCleaner. The problem with my computer though was that the C drive was actually the one we wanted to format. I have found a way to do it now though (more on that subject when I get time, Phill!)

 

Hello! I'm totally confused! Best be if I just stay watching and not suggesting any more! The sad part is I don't think you have a back up plan and you could have if you created a back up image of your OS with Macrium Reflect and put it on your external HD

Would you mind attaching a screen shot of Disk Management one more time??

I'm not going to take the time to read this whole topic again. Here is a screen shot of my external USB.

I have 10+ images that have been mounted and verified. I can restore any one of them on my working HD or on a brand new HD and be back up and running just like the day I created the image. I can copy and paste any thing on the images. I'm not going to argue this subject any more.

Believe me when I say I know about these things.

donetao!

Good Luck with you're on going topic. I'm sure you know more than I do!

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Edited by donetao, 21 July 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[Channeal]

Hi Gary,

 

 

Hello! I'm totally confused!

 

Lol!  The problem here has been that you came into the topic in the middle without really understanding what was going on: always a dangerous thing! I still should not have got impatient with you though: it is never a good thing to get impatient with any other person, no matter who they are.

 

The set-up on my computer is not a normal one in that I have two internal hard drives as well as an external one. The second hard drive now also has Windows loaded on it, thanks to me working to become an expert cloner! One of the internal drives was replaced last year and is much larger than the other one. Very briefly, we have been trying to swap things around a bit and make better use of the slightly unusual set-up. You have probably only looked at the screenshots where not all the drives were turned on, hence the confusion.

 

On a computer with a normal set-up - and given the fact that I have now learned the hard way that it is not possible to boot from an external drive  - I would agree wholeheartedly with you about putting a back-up image (created with either Macrium or Acronis) onto an external drive, if you have one. It is just that things are different here..... I now have two hards drives with Windows on, so there is not really any need of any further back-up, apart from of my data files only.

 

You obviously really are an expert at using Macrium and I can see that you must be a real asset to the residents of your retirement village, making sure that everybody has their computers well backed-up. It is great that you are helping people out and even more impressive that you are doing it all for free. Keep up the good work!

 

 

I'm sure you know more than I do!

 

I doubt it very much Gary..... my knowledge of technical matters is really miniscule. I have learned a lot more since I have been here on this forum though and that is great: learning new things is always good, especially when you are not so young any more!

 

Best wishes to you,

Chris.

 

P.S. I am still very intrigued by your comment about whether this topic is 'family originated'. Are you suggesting it might not be suitable reading for children?     I was not aware that Phill and I had discussed anything other than technical matters here - and certainly nothing x-rated!    Maybe it was all that talk of hard drives! (Sorry... it's my weird British sense of humour!)
(Thanks for making me smile with this: all this talk about technical stuff does my head in after a while, so it is good to have a laugh along the way!)

Edited by Channeal, 22 July 2014 - 01:58 AM.