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#16
phillpower2

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Hello jds63,

 

I have asked iammykyl to drop in to advise on setting up the SSD, I simply fitted mine, installed Windows and that was it, no defragging an SSD btw  :no:


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#17
jds63

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Yes i know of iammykyl, helped me before.

 

O.k. Thanks Phill, i hope soon. Kind of wait before installing other software that is not too important.

 

I believe even if Windows Optimization is set on schedule it will not defrag the SSD, may just do other optimizations.

I do have a External HDD Drive hooked up that i would like it to defrag this one, believe there might not be a way to just set one.

 

Quite a long drawn out last post i made, but was from some research i did do.


Edited by jds63, 06 August 2014 - 02:29 PM.

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#18
phillpower2

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Defragging a HDD when it is necessary is fine but unless you consistently swap a lot of data backwards and forwards it is not necessary and can in fact be damaging if done too often, files can become fragmented + you are subjecting the drive/s to needless wear and tear, some tips from Auslogic here

 

You are welcome btw  :)


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#19
jds63

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How often is too often, believe most programs will not do it unless it is needed ?

 

With Windows 8.1 you set it weekly, daily ,monthly. BTW there is a way to set which drives get optimized and which do not.

 

Hey, did i overwhelm you on my long post, no comments except Defrag ? :D

 

Thanks for responding. 


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#20
phillpower2

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How often is too often, believe most programs will not do it unless it is needed ?

 

 

That depends on the useage of the particular device, every 6-8 weeks for the average user but if you hammer the drive with file swaps etc just keep a check on it and when it looks fragmented defrag it, only you know how much toing and froing your data does.

 

Hey, did i overwhelm you on my long post, no comments except Defrag ? xbiggrin.png.pagespeed.ic.XhpYJIv77v.png

 

 

Not at all but I am a fixer not a tweaker  ;) 

iammykyl is far better placed to advise you on how to get the best out of your storage arrangement and Raid etc.


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#21
jds63

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o.k. i was just testing you :spoton:

 

Guess i have become a bit of both lately, but only to the knowledge i have.

 

Read this   : Windows 8 doesn’t defrag SSD’s, it optimizes them (read – runs trim command).

Seems now in Windows 8/ 8.1 maybe in 7 it recognizes it's a SSD, so it will not try to defrag it..

Not sure of other Defrag Software people use, like Diskeeper.

 

My external hdd goes to sleep when not in use , assuming it saves life of it


Edited by jds63, 06 August 2014 - 04:19 PM.

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#22
jds63

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Don't know about this Windows 8.1 Optimizer Mixed reviews on this Optimizer and SSD's, we all know not to defrag them.

 

This article shows it Runs trim command, but then defrags. http://www.outsideth.../#_Toc352763197

 

This article says more

 

Function and reasonable use of the Win8/Win8.1 "Optimizer" :

One of the most important tools for boosting the performance of the HDDs and SSDs is the "Optimizer" (formerly named "Defrag Tool") as part of the Operating Systems Win8 and Win8.1. It is able to defragment HDDs as the former Defrag Tool, but additionally it can "clean" all SSDs, which have been detected as such drives, by sending thunderstorms of TRIM commands to them. This dual DEFRAG/TRIM function is new since Windows 8 and a very nice new feature for users of one or more SSDs running in IDE, AHCI or RAID mode.


Possible "Optimizer" problems for SSD users:

The "Optimizer" will only send TRIM commands to SSDs, which have been detected by the OS as SSD. SSDs, which are shown as "Hard Disk Drive" within the "Optimizer", will be defragmented the same way as a normal HDD. It is important to know, that the defragmentation of an SSD is not only useless, but additionally bad, because each defragmentation will shorten the life time of an SSD. That is the reason, why SSD users should make sure, that their SSDs are shown as "Solid State Drive" by the "Optimizer", before they are going to run this tool.

Now mine is shown as an SSD in the Optimizer, for now i disabled it, only set it to run on my External HDD.

 

Another suggestion because want to avoid constant writes and rewrties on a SSD is to redirect or move default locations of libraries: documents,music, videos, pictures and downloads to a HDD.

Which i have an External USB 3.0 HDD.

 

Now i am not looking to tweak Windows 8.1 to get more performace out of the new SSD, i am just wanting to know my system is set correctly for the SSD to work optimally.


Edited by jds63, 06 August 2014 - 05:58 PM.

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#23
iammykyl

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Gday.

As you have found out, there are heaps of "optimize SSD" out there, much of it no longer required.

The link is for info only, The Samsung software is not compatible with other SSDs, but the principles should apply to all. the most relevant info is section 12.   Please have a read and get back to us.

http://www.samsung.c...whitepaper.html


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#24
jds63

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Thanks iammykyl,

You are correct about heaps of info on the internet about what you should do. Although i read it and do my research, i do not use it, till i am positive it is correct to do.

I fall between Maximum Performance and Maximum Reliability, now i do not use Hibernation or sleep, both are turned off. I understand the differences in these two.Not worried about capacity because it is a 512GB SSD.

No need to mess with Vitual Memory (pagefile) ? In article is left alone for Maximum Performance, but changed a bit for Maximum Reliability.
I do have 16GB of RAM on system.

I am not sure about Indexing and how useful it is to me to shut it off or not, considering i see it impacts maximum reliability of SSD, by reads/writes.
Some say there it does impact there systems performance, even heard of crashing.

Prefetch/Superfetch so this should be disabled with an SSD ?
Write-caching in all cases should be left enabled.

My Power Settings option is set to High Performance, this is a Desktop PC.


In this article about System Restore, reading this is a big culprit to reliability because of large writes and rewrites, i have not disabled this because i use it for protection in case of unstable PC from updates, changes made to system (accidental settings changes, accidental deletes, etc..) updates and installed software.

In the article they redirect it to another device (HDD), how is this possible without there software ?
Do not like other software options like Macrum Reflect or Acronis True Image, but i do back up all my important stuff on a External Drive.

Just would not be right for an SSD if i had to do a complete recovery in case of something could easily been fixed possibly by a System Restore Point, but i know with Windows 8.1 there is also options to reset or refresh, this will pretty much cause writes again to the SSD, over time affect reliability.

 

Also questions about Windows 8.1 Optimize, some say leave it on, some say leave it off.  Some have said Windows 8.1 doesn’t defrag SSD’s as long as it recognizes it as an SSD, it optimizes them reads – runs trim command.

So it only performs TRIM ?   Right now i have it disabled.

 

One read suggestion i saw was :

To avoid constant writes and rewrites on a SSD is to redirect or move default locations of libraries: documents,music, videos, pictures and downloads to a HDD.

 

Which i have an External USB 3.0 HDD.

 

Thanks for your reply and the time to help on this, much appreciated.


Edited by jds63, 06 August 2014 - 08:10 PM.

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#25
jds63

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How about a good benchmarking program i can use to post my results here to make you see how it is doing performance wise.

 

Suggested by PhillPower2.


Edited by jds63, 06 August 2014 - 08:54 PM.

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#26
iammykyl

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No need to mess with Vitual Memory (pagefile) ?

You should have some Pagefile as there are some programs, like Office, that expect to see a pagefile, and may not function correctly, (even though it may never use it)   I would use the Magician recommendation settings.

 

 

Prefetch/Superfetch so this should be disabled with an SSD ?
Write-caching in all cases should be left enabled.

Yes. to both.

 

 

My Power Settings option is set to High Performance, this is a Desktop PC

Yes, unless you want to save a few bucks on the electricity bill.

 

 

I am not sure about Indexing and how useful it is to me to shut it off or not, considering i see it impacts maximum reliability of SSD, by reads/writes.
Some say there it does impact there systems performance, even heard of crashing.

Turn off on the SSD, turn on for the Data drive.

 

 

In this article about System Restore, reading this is a big culprit to reliability because of large writes and rewrites, i have not disabled this because i use it for protection in case of unstable PC from updates, changes made to system (accidental settings changes, accidental deletes, etc..) updates and installed software.

In the article they redirect it to another device (HDD), how is this possible without there software ?
Do not like other software options like Macrum Reflect or Acronis True Image, but i do back up all my important stuff on a External Drive.

First part you got right, I would never turn of system restore as it is the second step in troubleshooting after "Last Known Good".   Windows will set a size by % of the drive, this can be shrunk .  I would leave it till you have everything else done.  

http://www.techrepub...system-restore/

 

The Second part.   A system restore file (System Volume Information) must be on the drive it is protecting. This is the way the O/S is designed, so  you cannot move it to another drive.  I think what is being refereed too, is a system/drive image.   This can be done in Windows, no 3rd party software needed.

 

Also questions about Windows 8.1 Optimize, some say leave it on, some say leave it off.  Some have said Windows 8.1 doesn’t defrag SSD’s as long as it recognizes it as an SSD, it optimizes them reads – runs trim command.

So it only performs TRIM ?   Right now i have it disabled.

Phillpower2 for this as I do not run W8.1 yet.   You should be able to check that Defrag is turned off for the SSD.


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#27
jds63

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Thanks for replying,

 

O.k. my pagefile shows 2944MB. Too much or good, i have 16GB RAM ?

 

Let me make sure i have this correct.

 

Prefetch/Superfetch so this should be disabled with an SSD ?
Write-caching in all cases should be left enabled.

 

You said yes to disable Prefetch, yes to leave Write-caching enabled ?

I only see superprefetch in Windows 8.1 in services. What would be effect shutting this off ?

 

Still not sure about the indexing being turned off , have to see how to just do it for the SSD.

Image shows what is being indexed, looks like exteranl is not .

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Edited by jds63, 07 August 2014 - 06:44 PM.

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#28
jds63

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Sorry about double post, wanted make sure image was there where i wanted it.

 

Most cases with research people turned it off in services, indexing, called Windows search.

 

Prefetch and indexing fall more on maximum reliability of SSD.

System restore which i should leave enabled seems a bigger culprit to reliability, even though i would not think of disabling it.

 

With Windows 8.1 Optimize when you run it on the SSD it is trimming it, not defragging. The Analyze button is non functional with the SSD also, only Optimize button works manually.

For HDD the analyze works. Right now i have it off. As said before most will say it will not defrag an SSD in Windows 8.1.

 

Sorry this seems to be becoming a lot to think about, doing these changes. Becoming a bit Complicating.  PhillPower2 said he just popped it in,.

 

I just want to make sure i am getting Optimal performance from the SSD, nothing hardwae or driver related maybe causing issues.

Now i know from your original article these are good suggestions to get maximum performance from the SSD.

 

If PhillPower2 comes back to the post, he can advice me on the other issues within Windows 8.1.


Edited by jds63, 07 August 2014 - 04:00 PM.

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#29
jds63

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Update about SuperPrefetch in Windows 8.1.

 

From research and reading, articles say ,

 

In Windows 7, Microsoft attempted to address this issue by automatically disabling Superfetch and Prefetch when a fast SSD was detected. In Windows 8, however, the operating system tries to analyze the performance characteristics of the system’s storage and intelligently enable or disable Superfetch/Prefetch as needed.

 

Under Windows 8 SSD’s and RAID’s are ignored by SuperFetch. SuperFetch, under Windows 8 / 8.1 and newer will only run against spinning disk even though the service is running apparently on all disks… it is not working on SSD’s.

 

While most users will be fine letting Windows decide how to use Superfetch and Prefetch on its own, there are situations in which Windows may make the wrong decision, and power users will want to manually disable or enable the services. This most often occurs with non-standard configurations such as fast RAID arrays of HDDs, or mixed use of both SSDs and HDDs.

 

Pretty much same is said about Windows Optimizer, When Windows 8/8.1 detects an SSD , by querying rotational speed and getting back 0 for SSD it won't defrag it.

 

Understood about System Restore read the link, i did know how to reduce the size of restore points, mine is at default settings,  about 10%.

Know there is programs like Macrium Reflect, never got too familiar with using images to recover a system. I did a clean install of the OS on this new SSD.

 

 

Give a look at Memory usage,cached.

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Edited by jds63, 07 August 2014 - 07:03 PM.

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#30
iammykyl

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O.k. my pagefile shows 2944MB. Too much or good, i have 16GB RAM ?

PF, on, off, big, small, fixed, etc.   There is no definitive answer as far as I can see.  I can only give you what I have always used, and works for me,  PF on, set to a min and max of 1024MB.

 

Prefetch/Superfetch so this should be disabled with an SSD ?

Write-caching in all cases should be left enabled.

You said yes to disable Prefetch, yes to leave Write-caching enabled ?

 

I only see superprefetch in Windows 8.1 in services. What would be effect shutting this off ?

I did say yes, but not having W8.1, just guessing would have the same effect as W7.

 Please give the brand/specs of your RAM.


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