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Pc-cillin Internet Security 2005


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#1
mazaprin

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use Windows XP Home (SP2) and I use AOL 9.0 optimized internet provider.

When I had Trend Micro Internet Security 2004, AOL detected BOTH, my antivirus and my Trend Micro FIREWALL at the sign in window without problems.

Now.. After I installed the new version Internet Security 2005, AOL detects my antivirus running on background BUT NOT THE PC-CILLIN FIREWALL despite that it is running on the background. My brother and several friends of mine who also upgraded from 2004 to version 2005 they are having the same problem. AOL is able to detect the Firewall on version 2004 but not on version 2005.

Since there are several different persons having the same problem (with different AOL versions or editions), it is safe to say that it is not an AOL software problem but a pc-cillin configuration problem that does not allow AOL to detect the firewall running on the background.

I contacted Trend Micro and they responded that AOL has its own Firewall (??!!) and it interferes with pc-cillin Firewall and that I should contact AOL to configure their settings. I then contacted AOL and I learned that AOL has NEVER USED any Firewall of their own and that a Firewall is a responsibility of the computer user to buy and install.

Either Trend Micro is missinformed about AOL oir their 2005 firewall is FAULTY or has some BUG or has new features or new configuration that prevents AOL from detecting it which means that the pc-cillin Firewall 2005 is not working properly and you could be unprotected.

Not only AOL is Unable to detect the 2005 firewall at the sign in window, but also the AOL “Computer Checkup Utility” (that scans yous PC to see if there are problems) invariably comes with the result saying; “WARNING: You are unprotected against attacks. You should install a Firewall to protect you, etc, etc...”

All my friends and relatives are reluctant to Upgrade to pc-cillin 2005 and they opted (I included) for renewing their 2004 version subscription for one more year and the ones that already purchased the 2005 version had to call Trend Micro for a REFUND of their money because they don't trust the 2005 firewall.

I am trying to make you all aware of this problem (that has been going on since Pc-cillin 2005 was released (on or about October 2004) and to the present the problem is still there. I am in contact with Trend Micro Tech support and they investigating the issue to try to find out WHY AOL detects the 2004 firewall BUT not the 2005 one.

If you have experienced the same problem with AOL and you were able to correct the problem either with the help of AOL or Trend Micro or by yourself, please share your experience with us here and please, also contact Trend Micro and complaint about this problem too.
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#2
starjax

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what I think you are saying is that since upgrading your firewall you can connect to aol.

try going into your firewall and makeing sure that aol is set as a trusted application.
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#3
mazaprin

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Hi starjax, it seems to me that you did not read my post carefully to understand it better OR you have never used AOL as an internet provider.
This problem has nothing to do with connecting to AOL, everything is working fine with AOL.

The problem is, basically, That when you open the AOL software, it scans your computer at the sign in window and show whether your antivirus and firewall were detected and running on background among other things (it is a checkup of the security features you have set up on your computer) but it does not prevent you from connecting to AOL.

The problem is that when I (and other AOL users) are using Pc-cillin Internet Security 2004 AOL had no problems detecting the antivirus and the firewall (the chekup shows they are on and running) but when people upgrade to Pc-cillin 2005
AOL can only detect the antivirus running BUT the AOL checkup DOES NOT detect the Pc-cillin Firewall, giving you the impression that something is wrong with the firewall or is not working properly or not running at all.

I have contacted Trend Micro and they are blaming AOL with false excuses and I have talked with AOL manager of technical dept and they say there is something wrong with Pc-cillin firewall because AOL checkup at sign in window should be able to detect the Pc-cillin 2005 firewall the same way it detected the firewall on the previous 2004 version.

So, the problem has nothing to do with connecting to AOL but WHY AOL was ABLE to detect the pc-cillin 2004 firewall BUT not the 2005 firewall.
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#4
mazaprin

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This is a snapshot of the AOL sign in window where it clearly shows that the Firewall and antivirus are detected (this is with Pc-cillin Internet Security 2004 that I am using)

BUT when my brother uninstalled the 2004 version and installed the pc-cillin Internet Security 2005 (latest edition or build, which a Trend Micro technician told him it would solve the problem) AOL was still unable to detect the firewall and the sign in window will show, where is says "Firewall...... Not Detected".

This has been happening for more than 6 months, since the very first pc-cillin 2005 version was released on or about October 2004. Many AOL users have been complaining to Trend Micro about their 2005 firewall and Trend Micro invariably replies that it is an "AOL problem".

My question is... If it were and AOL problem, AOL should not be able to detect any pc-cillin firewall regardless of version or year, but here you can see that AOL perfectly detects and show that the 2004 firewall is enabled and running. which makes the pc-cillin 2005 firewall faulty or not working properly.

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#5
starjax

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you are correct I am not an aol subscriber. I will admit that I was way back in 1990 before the internet existed...lol.

now as to "f it were and AOL problem, AOL should not be able to detect any pc-cillin firewall regardless of version or year". that statement is incorrect. it checks based on software install locations and registry entries. Based on my experience at detecting what software is installed vendors often changed a default path that they had used for the last 8 version to something different or the location of the reg key (wmi entry) has changed.

or even more likely there are pieces of the 2004 version left over and aol can't interpret correctly. Trend should share a small portion of the blame, but most of the issue lies with aol. If they get enough issues reported they (trend and aol) will work up a resolution.

yet in typical fashion the tech support desks blame each other.....
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#6
mazaprin

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I agree with your assessment, maybe you are right about it could be the default path was changed, etc.. but I don't agree with the part about version 2004 leftovers.

A novice could uninstall a version of Pc-cillin just using the vendor provided Uninstaller and of course there would be leftovers or ghost files that weren't removed BUT an educated computer user like me will uninstall any software to the core using proffesional uninstallers like "Your Uninstaller 2004" that will take care of the leftovers (not 100% but at least 98-99%), then I would run a search for all files and folders with the name "pc-cillin*" and delete any results. Then I will go to the registry editor and remove the Trend Micro folder from there for a CLEAN Uninstall of a version and then reboot, then I use "Registry First Aid" to scan the registry for any errors, duplicate files or any file related to trend micro in the whole registry and delete it if any is found.

After that I remove all temp files and then Defrag both drives (partitions) with Diskeeper 9 Pro, reboot and then Install the new version of Pc-cillin (or any other software) in a very clean environment (I already have done it when I Upgraded from 2004 to 2005 version on December 2004 and after I noticed that the 2005 firewall was not detected by AOL and TRend Micro did not solve the problem then I asked for a REFUND and Re-installed my good one, the 2004 version and I paid a subscription for one more year for that version.

Since then , every person that I know that upgraded to pc-cillin 2005 have encountered the same problem with AOL not detecting the firewall. I don't know about other internet providers but maybe they don't have as many tools as AOL to check and scan your computer and protect your emails etc... AOL is the leading internet provider and the one with MOST security measures and features to protect his customers without interfering with their customers' third party security software.

I am presently engaged in an argument with Trend Micro Technical support dept., they have passed my case around (like a Hot Potato) to different technicians, scalating the issue to higher levels, etc. and STILL no solution in sight.

Edited by mazaprin, 12 June 2005 - 11:10 PM.

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#7
starjax

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ok let me put it this way, if you have done a proper removal of 2004 and proper install of 2005... that the program works as intended. The issue is that aol does not detect the 2005 version. You yourself have verified that multiple people are having this issue.

so why do you keep going to trend micro and asking them to fix aol's detection routines?
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#8
mazaprin

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To answer your question, I keep going to Trend Micro not for they to fix AOL detection routines BUT to find a reason WHY AOL is ABLE to detect their 2004 version and not the 2005 version.

1.- Trend Micro (since they released the 2005 version 6 months ago has not come up with a reasonable explanation for this problem) they first asked customers to uninstall and reinstall the 2005 firewall and when it did not work, asked customers to uninstall the pc-cillin software and reinstall it and when it also did not work they started to blame AOL stating that AOL's Firewall interferes with pc-cillin and that I should call AOL and try a workable solution with them (an easy way out)

2.- On the other hand, and based on my years of experience as an AOL user, I was never aware about any AOL firewall on any of their Editions or versions and I called AOL to clarify this and they assured me that AOL HAS NEVER USED any firewall of their own on any version, not even the latest Security Edition (which has other security measures in place, better parental controls , optional antispyware tool, etc) and that the statement by Trend Micro that AOL has a Firewall is simply NOT TRUE. AOL says that they are able to detect most BIG BRANDS of Firewalls like Norton, Zone alarm, Trend Micro (2004 and previous) and that Trend Micro new 2005 version software "might" have some different configuration or some bug that prevents AOL from detecting it running on background and that I should try to solve this problem with Trend Micro because if AOL in the past has been ABLE to detect their 2004 firewall, there should be no logical reason as to WHY AOL should not be able to detect their 2005 version as well (note here that AOL is still detecting te 2005 antivirus running and the problem is only with the firewall).

As you can appreciate, AOL has given me straight and reasonable answers BUT Trend Micro NOT, and the problem here is not about whether 2005 firewall is working or not (I know for a fact that the firewall is working and running on background and have checked it on websites that TEST your firewall) the problem here is that since AOL, for some unknown reason, can not detect the 2005 firewall at the sign in window and also the AOL "Computer checkup tool" also is not able to detect any firewall running" it alerts the User about the danger of being unprotected and strongly advise the user to buy and install firewall and a NOVICE User could PANIC and return the Pc-cillin software to Trend and ask for a refund believing that pc-cillin firewall is useless and that could damage Trend Micro good reputation.

This is not about being able to connect to AOL (there are no problems with it) and this is not about pc-cillin firewall not working or not running (I know it is working well) this problem is about Trend Micro 2005 software configuration that prevents AOL from detetcting their firewall on routine secutity scans that gives the false impression to the User that pc-cillin firewall is not working and they are unprotected.

I will post here the next response from Trend Micro so you can appreciate if they are trying to solve this problem or simply looking for something to blame (maybe this time they will blame SP2 or my computer configuration or my dog's barking).
I don't blame AOL because if they are ABLE to detect 2004 firewall using their default path for different brand firewalls then that could mean that Trend Micro made some UNUSUAL changes on their 2005 version (compared to the 2004 version) software configuration that prevents AOL from detecting it, and then the problem resides entirely on Trend Micro software and not on AOL detecting capabilities.

Edited by mazaprin, 13 June 2005 - 08:01 AM.

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#9
Murray S.

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Howdy Mazaprin:

So, you say AOL doesn't have a fire wall even with their Security Edition.. In fact you even say AOL told you that..

Ever bother to read their homepage??

Try reading THIS especially the Safety part.. something about McAffee Personal Firewall install..

It may not be AOL's own but they sure as heck put it on!!

Murray

Edited by Murray S., 13 June 2005 - 10:29 PM.

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#10
mazaprin

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Hi Murray S., I understand your confusion about the McAffee antivirus that AOL promotes and I will clarify that confusion here.

1.- Neither I nor my broither nor my friends (all are AOL users) are using the latest AOL Security Edition, we are still using AOL 9.0 Optimized.

2.- The McAffee antivirus scan online is offered free by AOL and you have the option to buy the Mc Affee complete antivirus software (Security Edition) BUT we are not talking about here about antivirus but a FIREWALL.

3.- All of us are connecting to AOL via Dial-up and AOL offers some type of Firewall (privacy wall) for AOL Broadband or Cable, DSL or Satellite connections but it is an OPTIONAL feature that you must subscribe to it for a trial (meaning it carries a monthly fee) BUT no firewall is installed automatically by AOL on any versions or editions.

I am including here a chat session with an AOL technician about this matter:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AOLTechESI has joined this session!

Hello, herbert. Welcome to Live Technical Support. My name is Jao.
Mazaprin stated the question or problem as: AOL firewall.
Are you signed on with the same computer that you need assistance with?

You say, I have a bit of confusion about that McAfee firewall that you promote

You say[, does ASOL install any kind of firewall automatically on your security edition?

AOLTechESI says, I appreciate the time you've taken and the opportunity to handle this for you, Herbert.

AOLTechESI says, Before I answer that question, how are you connecting? Do you have a dial-up connection or broadband connection like DSL, cable, or satellite?

You say, dial up

AOLTechESI says, Thank you, Herbert. The free McAfee Firewall in only available for broadband members. If you want, you can try the free trial of AOL Privacy Wall and you can sign up online through Keyword: PRIVACY WALL.

You say, so all these firewalls and antiviruses that you promote are OPTIONAL and they are not installed automatically with the AOL software for dial up connections?

AOLTechESI says, For dial Up Users, you can download the free Virus Scan at Keyword: VIRUS SCAN, it is also included on AOL 9.0 Security Edition CD.

AOLTechESI says, But for Firewall, it is not automatically included.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AOL also in their Optimized and Security Editions includes some type of antispyware tool but it is easy to remove from the ADD/REMOVE panel if you want
to but it has nothing to do with FIREWALLS.

I hope I have answered your question (you can not have TWO firewalls running at the same time on any computer because they will interfere with each other) my Windows XP (SP2) Firewall is DISABLED so Pc-cillin Firewall can entirely take charge of this protection and avoid conflicts.

I am also including here my brother's screenshot of the AOL sign in window where it shows Firewall... NOT Detected on his Pc-cillin 2005 version

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#11
Murray S.

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Well, either a) the AOL techs are saying just what you want to hear because they don't want to admit AOL is not keeping up with cureent technology or; b) that they could be guilty of false advertising !!

Straight from their website concerning the optional McAffee firewall install..

* Only applicable to broadband users. AOL dial-up connections have automatic firewall protection.

Does that say "automatic firewall protection" ?? Hmm.. that it does !!

Now, what did they say.. AOLTechESI says, But for Firewall, it is not automatically included.

Something doesn't jive here !!

Murray
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#12
mazaprin

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Hi Murray S.
Could you kindly provide the link to the website where you saw the information you are talking about because I went to AOL website and there is no such thing as a McAfee Firewall.

What AOL promotes is McAfee Viruscan (no firewall) and it is optional and the only firewall available for AOL Dial-up users is the AOL Privacy wall which is also optional.

Broadband connections are not applicable for this problem.

The AOL tech that I spoke to about your assertion is assured me that there is no automatic firewall installed by AOL and asked me where did I saw such information and that if I want info about McAfee I must go to the McAfee website (and McAfee website would be prone to a missprint or to "assume" things about AOL features or whatever).

So, I need the link to that website where you got that info saying that AOL dial-up connections have automatic firewall protection (you said it comes straight from an AOL website? I went there and did not see such info).

As I stated, to my knowledge of many years using AOL they never installed any firewall on any edition and such utilities as antivirus and firewalls have been always optional. That info must have been a missinterpretation because the only firewall available for dial-up users is the "Privacy Wall" that is OPTIONAL and carries a monthly fee.

Another aspect to take into account... if AOL had installed an automatic firewall the customers would know because there would be settings for that firewall and you would contact tech support for any problems with their firewall etc. No firewall is invisible for the PC where it is running, even if it is invisible for the web

Edited by mazaprin, 14 June 2005 - 01:08 PM.

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#13
Murray S.

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http://www.aol.com/p...ct/firewall.adp

Take a look at the bottom of the description!!

Murray
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#14
mazaprin

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Hi Murray S.
I talked with AOL supervisor of Technicians about this advertisement sentence at the bottom (I provided the link for him to go there and see).

This is a copy of the most relevant part of the conversation (or live session):
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TechLiveAZIT says, When you use a cable connection to go online there is a higher risk of computer attack as it is through a cable and packets can be sent by a hacker to it as there is no direct barrier to it and hence AOL provides the free firewall as the IP address remains static , but for a DIAL-UP users the packets are transmitted through the AOL server and the IP address is dynamic and the protection at the AOL server is referred to as the firewall in that advertisement.

You say, but do you mean that the firewall you are using is at the server level and not installed on my pc?

TechLiveAZIT says, Yes, that is my point. The fire wall referred to is at the server level and not on the computer.

You say, will not interfere with my personal firewall instaklled and running on my PC?

TechLiveAZIT says, Just let the people know that if AOL had a firewall installed on your computer, it would show up on your computer. You can scan your computer and see that the firewall is not present on the computer.

You say, OK I will post this explanation it seems very reasonable to me althought the advertisement is missleading

TechLiveAZIT says, I too share your concern. That portion of the advertisement was poorly writtenand hence your confusion.

You say, please report to management that they should clarify or elaborate that portion of the ad as an AOL own server protection firewall and not part of the user computer.

TechLiveAZIT says, I will surely make management aware of that misleading sentence on the Ad.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, I am inclined to believe that explanation based on the fact that a firewall on a server is not the same as a firewall on your computer. AOL protects its Server with its own firewall and we the users protect our computers with our own personal firewalls. Besides, as I stated previously, if there were an AOL firewall installed on my PC it would be easy for me to spot it and also having two firewalls installed and running on one computer will interfere with each other and create system conflicts and you would notice inmediately.

Anyway, we have been drifting away from the main topic, since this has nothing to do with the AOL Scan tool not able to detect pc-cillin 2005 firewall running on background BUT wahtever the reason may be, it has nothing to do with an "undercover" AOL firewall on AOL users' computers.

I am still waiting for response from Trend Micro, I suggested them to contact AOL software developers and give them the new parameters or paths or configuration or whatever info (that has changed compared to 2004 version) they need to provide to AOL to make it possible for AOL scan engine to detect their firewall.
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#15
Murray S.

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Personally, I feel they are simply stating what they feel you want/need to hear..

AOL is fine for the average novice user but not anything someone more experienced with the internet or browsing would care for !!

Nuff said.. It would seem that AOL simply does NOT want to keep up with changing technologies such as those shown with Trend Micro and are more than happy to "pass the buck" !!

Murray
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