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Possible Laptop Purchase (Resolved).


Best Answer Channeal , 28 September 2016 - 09:06 AM

Hello Phill, Phew! I am exhausted!!!!  Some good news, some bad........ Dban completed okay. I eventually managed to sort out my ISO-to-flashdrive problems and got the Windows 10 dow... Go to the full post »


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#16
phillpower2

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Hello Chris,

 

No worries, we will be here when you are ready to either upgrade or go new  :yes:

 

You are correct regarding the content  :thumbsup:

 

You are most welcome btw  :)


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#17
Channeal

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Hello Phill, 
 
My daughter has done some work on the laptop now, but still has additional files to sort out (she was apparently hindered by a usb memory stick which was playing up)..... so yet more patience is required from me! Now the hot weather is here, sunbathing is her main priority! :(
 
While I am waiting, can I please ask you a quick couple of questions about my desktop computer? Back in 2014 , you helped me carry out some work here, the end result of which was my OS was transferred to the smaller of my 2 hard drives. The larger drive now contains 2 partitions: one (drive D) holds a clone of the OS and the other (drive M) holds only data (music, photos and other files).
 
My questions are related to the security issues with XP.........
 
Is the risk mainly to the drive containing the OS, or is the drive with the data on at risk too? 
 
Is the clone of the XP OS at risk even though I don't think that I have actually accessed it since 2014?  
 
Does the presence of the cloned OS on the same disk as the data put the data at extra risk (aside from any risk there might be via the main OS on drive C).
 
This is a little difficult to express, but hopefully you will understand what I am trying to say. I have been wondering about this for two years, but have been unable to find any real info online. Everybody just says not to use XP because of the security issues, but is difficult to find a huge amount of info beyond that and certainly nothing about my particular questions.
 
Thanks a lot,
 
Chris.

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#18
phillpower2

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Hello Chris,

 

I`m by no means a security expert but will hopefully be able to answer each question so that it makes sense  :)

 

Is the risk mainly to the drive containing the OS

 

 

Yes but with certain provisos, some bad guys are after your personal data such as bank details, some simply to cause mayhem for no financial gain and some to encrypt the data on the HDD and then demand payment to release it, all three cause mayhem and are equally as bad btw.

 

Now a couple of provisos, if you only have the OS on the HDD and no personal data etc on a separate partition then only the OS should be vulnerable to malware attack, this though only if you do not swap data between the boot drive and any other storage device such as any additional HDDs or USB thumb drives.

 

 is the drive with the data on at risk too? 

 

 

Depends but yes if you swap data between an infected boot drive and any other storage device such as any additional HDDs or USB thumb drives.

 
Is the clone of the XP OS at risk even though I don't think that I have actually accessed it since 2014?  

 

 

If you have not accessed the drive for any reason at all then no, it would take human interaction your end such as backing up infected data which as you have not accessed the drive you cannot have done.

 

Does the presence of the cloned OS on the same disk as the data put the data at extra risk (aside from any risk there might be via the main OS on drive C).

 

 

A somewhat repetitive answer but again the cloned OS and any other data on a separate HDD can become infected if infected data is backed up to it, or if for some reason you change the boot sequence and boot from the second HDD.

 

One safety tip if you are not already aware of it, disable USB device Autoplay, this helps to prevent malware being spread via USB thumb drives etc which can happen if someone has downloaded something not quite from the internet such as a film or music video.

 

Hope the above makes sense but let us know if not and I will ask one of the security experts to explain it (much) better.


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#19
Channeal

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Hello Phill,

 

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation.  I am not sure that I understand completely, but probably as well as I am ever likely to! :( It sounds as if there is at least slightly less likelihood of my data being affected by any XP-related problems while it is on a separate hard drive.

 
As far as the clone on the second hard drive goes,  the reason I asked is that if it was endangering my data (which is on the same drive, but on a different partition) in any way, I would then consider deleting the clone altogether. From what you said though, it seems as if its presence on the second hard drive is not hugely likely to give rise to any greatly increased risk.
 
Complicated stuff for a mere mortal like me to understand! :)
 
Chris.

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#20
phillpower2

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Hello Chris,

 

It sounds as if there is at least slightly less likelihood of my data being affected by any XP-related problems while it is on a separate hard drive.

 

That is correct and to run any risk of it being infected you would need to access the second HDD while being booted into the OS on the primary HDD.

 

From what you said though, it seems as if its presence on the second hard drive is not hugely likely to give rise to any greatly increased risk.

 

 

As per the above, it would take human intervention to create a path between the two storage devices for the data on the second HDD to become infected by anything on the primary HDD, this as long as the second HDD is not changed to the boot drive and then connected to the internet or an iffy USB device.

 

As ever, you are welcome  :)


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#21
Channeal

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Hello Phill,

One further question, if I may. When you talk about a 'path between the two storage devices', does that include any links (e.g. on the desktop) to files on the second HDD?

Chris.
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#22
phillpower2

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If you copy a corrupt file from one HDD to another then the second HDD also becomes corrupted,hope that explains it ok  :)


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#23
Channeal

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Hello Phill,

Not sure you understood what I meant by my last question. Obviously, copying files over from a potentially infected hard drive to another one would be a really bad idea. I was talking about shortcuts (sorry, I wrongly called them 'links'in my previous post) on the desktop which provide a method of easy access to files on the other drive (e.g. to 'My Documents' on drive M). I was seeking confirmation that such shortcuts could not be a way through which any possible infection might spread to the second hard drive.

Not to worry though; I feel sure you would have told me if this was the case. I do not want to trouble you further in the middle of a busy working week, so there is no need for you to reply to this message. I will be in touch again if/when I have any news about the laptop.

Chris.
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#24
terry1966

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to be honest malware can spread from any drive to any other drive in the pc, regardless of if you have it mounted in the os, just as long as it's powered and has a data connection. it can even spread from one pc to any other pc on your local network.

 

it totally depends on what type of malware has infected a pc.

 

some links you may find of interest.

http://www.bleepingc...-gets-infected/

http://www.combofix....ur-computer.php

http://www.cisco.com...ifferences.html

 

:popcorn:


Edited by terry1966, 10 May 2016 - 04:49 AM.

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#25
phillpower2

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Not saying that it cannot happen under any circumstances but for how Chris uses the computer and the fact that there has been no access to the second HDD at all then I see no possibility for it to happen here, I did say a security expert may need to explain it better btw  :P

 

An article on how back ups can become infected here


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#26
terry1966

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sorry phill haven't read the whole topic, so don't really know in what context or to what degree malware as been discussed previously, and i was just pointing out once a pc has been infected it is most definitely possible for it to infect other drives in a pc and other pc/devices on the same network all without any human interaction whatsoever.

 

so have to totally disagree with you on this.

 

Not saying that it cannot happen under any circumstances but for how Chris uses the computer and the fact that there has been no access to the second HDD at all then I see no possibility for it to happen here, I did say a security expert may need to explain it better btw  xtongue.png.pagespeed.ic.86ZlZhEa46.png

 

like i said earlier it totally depends on the type of malware but it most definitely can spread and infect the second drive even without it being mounted for access by the user and that's why any security/malware expert would recommend backup drives are never left connected to a pc, and any drive in a pc is not really a backup, in the same way a raid 1 is not really a backup.

 

should also mention if a drive had malware on it and it's been cloned and the cloned drive is the one in use then that has malware on it to start with too.

 

if channeal is worried about malware being on her pc/laptop then i'd suggest posting the needed logs getting it checked over in our malware section.

 

:popcorn:

 

backing up your data :-

http://www.pcworld.c...d-the-data.html

https://www.backblaz...r-computer.html

 

 

Ideally, a 3-2-1 backup strategy is recommended, this means 3 copies of your data, 2 on-site but on different mediums, and 1 offsite.


Edited by terry1966, 10 May 2016 - 01:12 PM.

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#27
terry1966

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had a better read of topic and found this for you phil (don't ask how, but took a while. :spoton: ) :- http://www.sevenforu...ot-manager.html

http://www.geekstogo...oblem-resolved/

 

seems malware wasn't mentioned really till this.

 

 

My questions are related to the security issues with XP.........
 
Is the risk mainly to the drive containing the OS, or is the drive with the data on at risk too? 
 
Is the clone of the XP OS at risk even though I don't think that I have actually accessed it since 2014?  
 
Does the presence of the cloned OS on the same disk as the data put the data at extra risk (aside from any risk there might be via the main OS on drive C).

 

not forgetting xp is full of security holes that not even an antivirus software can protect someone on the internet from my answers to those questions would be,

 

1:- Is the risk mainly to the drive containing the OS, or is the drive with the data on at risk too? most definitely the risk is to any and every drive connected to that pc.

2:- Is the clone of the XP OS at risk even though I don't think that I have actually accessed it since 2014? yes

3:- Does the presence of the cloned OS on the same disk as the data put the data at extra risk (aside from any risk there might be via the main OS on drive C).? no makes no difference, the threat can only originate from within a running os, the cloned os is just another bunch of data files when it's not the running os.

 

:popcorn:


Edited by terry1966, 11 May 2016 - 06:23 AM.

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#28
Channeal

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Good evening,

I really don't want to inadvertently be the cause of an argument between you guys (though it would actually be typical of my week so far, where all and sundry around me seem to have been falling out with each other!) :)

I really appreciate the input from both of you; it is so interesting to read differing points of view about this subject.

With regard to having my computer checked for malware, I really don't see the point. I have no reason whatsoever to suspect there is any malware present at the moment and if I had it checked for unseen infections and it was declared clean, I could then quite easily get infected the very next day, as long as we are continuing to run XP. So I would have to continually haunt the Malware section of GTG asking to have my computer checked out! From my own experience in the past, their checks are so thorough and take a very long time, so I would end up spending much of my life in this forum :)

As long as I can feel confident that I am not unwittingly increasing the risks more than necessary, I am happy to continue as I am until such time as either this computer blows up, or I manage to catch my husband in an exceptionally good mood and he decides to buy me a new one!;)

Life is full of risks after all.... and the older I get the more I realise that worrying about things that might not happen is a pretty futile exercise! :)

Meanwhile, the wait for the laptop continues...

Thanks again to you both for all the information and help which you provide.

Chris.

Oops sorry Terry, you must have been composing your post at the same time as I was doing mine!

Edited by Channeal, 10 May 2016 - 02:38 PM.

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#29
terry1966

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I really don't want to inadvertently be the cause of an argument between you guys (though it would actually be typical of my week so far, where all and sundry around me seem to have been falling out with each other!)

don't you worry channeal, phil knows i'm a contrary git sometimes and i don't think we'll ever fall out because i respect him and his knowledge way to much for that, even if i don't always agree with him. :rofl:

 

as to using xp then personally i wouldn't, but just as long as you understand the risks are greater to you just because you are using xp.

 

as to your daughters laptop, all she needs to do really is save her data off it and once that's done do a factory restore so it is in the same condition as when she bought it with all her files gone, and just to make extra sure they can't be found again i'd install ccleaner and get it to wipe the free space, make sure she does only wipe the free space and not the whole drive.

 

ccleaner :- https://www.piriform.com/

how to wipe free drive space :- https://www.piriform...free-disk-space

 

then give it to you. ;)

 

you can always tell her to pop in here and we'll get her to sort it sharpish for you. :lol:

 

:popcorn:


Edited by terry1966, 10 May 2016 - 07:47 PM.

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#30
terry1966

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noooooo!!!!

 

i posted the wrong link here.

 

had a better read of topic and found this for you phil (don't ask how, but took a while. ) :- http://www.sevenforu...ot-manager.html

 

so had to search again, meant to post this one for you phill. :- http://www.geekstogo...oblem-resolved/

:rofl:

 

edited that post too to add correct link.

 

:popcorn:


Edited by terry1966, 11 May 2016 - 06:24 AM.

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