[hefe]

PC had been slow and erratic for some time even before upgrading from Win 8.1 to 10. Upgrade from Microsoft. Tried to do a complete restore. Have done this several times before. PC refused with message that recovery file was corrupt. Tried to return to normal Oper. Would not respond. Tried manual shut down and restart. Could here fans and maybe hard drive [not sure] but no power light, no signal to monitor. Took PC to Best Buy Geeks. Other than the same thing I had done, they had no way to test anything but declared it to be a defective mother board [Joshua-H61-uATX, graphics are internal] and would have to go to their facility in Kentucky. With that diagnosis, with no test, my instinct said, "HP has a history". I sent it to Kentucky anyway. Their report was, bad mother board,some other things they were not sure of and would cost $329.00. I refused repair and did some test myself. Nothing to loose now. It is very clean inside. I reset the BIOS and tried it again. The power light came on and it got as far as the first screen on the monitor, a page of system info, but no further. I tried the F1 key and it advanced to the next screen, which it always did, but no further. At that point the keyboard and mouse were dead. It then lost the power light but the fans were running. I again reset the BIOS. The power light came back but the USB ports were all dead and the WiFi as well. Tried both kinds of keyboard & mouse. I then noticed that at each turn on, the hard drive light came on for about 2 seconds with no response, that I could hear, from the hard drive. [ I have several good hard drives to substitute but all older tech & fittings ] Also at turn on the mouse light would flash momentarily. I am, by no means, a computer tech. This is the best info I can provide. At this point the question is , should I spend, as much as $300 on a mother board only to find the hard drive and / or the CPU are bad and how do I know?

 

Thank you. Any opinions will be greatly appreciated.

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Hi hefe and welcome to our forums

 

It sounds quite a difficult issue you are facing, so we maybe need to take it step by step.

 

1 Are your back ups of all your important stuff fully up to date comprehensive and include everything that is important to you on your machine? if they are and you have several copies with at least one kept safe offsite on removable media then we can move on... however if for any reasons your back ups are defective then now would be a good time to remedy it and copy off your important information. As your computer is having difficulty booting into Windows at the moment you could perhaps use a live distro of Linux to copy off your important stuff.... Linux Puppy is good and a small download ( just a tad over 100Mb or so) post back if you need extra information on any of the steps required.

 

2 If you are happy with your back ups, then its still worthwhile booting into Puppy or another distro of Linux ( you may need to disable secure boot in the BIOS/UEFI first and set CD/DVD as boot priority 1, with Hard drive0 as boot priority2 saving the changes) and with the disc in the tray the computer should boot into Puppy  If Puppy runs Ok (no need to install it it will run happily in RAM and be gone when you remove the disc and reboot) then it indicates that your Motherboard is ok and no need to replace it (a considerable saving)... However if you can't get it to run and you are following the correct procedures then its tending to confirm the motherboard issue.

 

3 If Puppy runs just fine then post back and we will advise the next steps.

Regards

paws

[paws]

Hi hefe and welcome to our forums

 

It sounds quite a difficult issue you are facing, so we maybe need to take it step by step.

 

1 Are your back ups of all your important stuff fully up to date comprehensive and include everything that is important to you on your machine? if they are and you have several copies with at least one kept safe offsite on removable media then we can move on... however if for any reasons your back ups are defective then now would be a good time to remedy it and copy off your important information. As your computer is having difficulty booting into Windows at the moment you could perhaps use a live distro of Linux to copy off your important stuff.... Linux Puppy is good and a small download ( just a tad over 100Mb or so) post back if you need extra information on any of the steps required.

 

2 If you are happy with your back ups, then its still worthwhile booting into Puppy or another distro of Linux ( you may need to disable secure boot in the BIOS/UEFI first and set CD/DVD as boot priority 1, with Hard drive0 as boot priority2 saving the changes) and with the disc in the tray the computer should boot into Puppy  If Puppy runs Ok (no need to install it it will run happily in RAM and be gone when you remove the disc and reboot) then it indicates that your Motherboard is ok and no need to replace it (a considerable saving)... However if you can't get it to run and you are following the correct procedures then its tending to confirm the motherboard issue.

 

3 If Puppy runs just fine then post back and we will advise the next steps.

Regards

paws

[hefe]

Thanks paws, Everything is backed up on external media. I was in the process of a complete recovery when all this happened. What you suggest on changing the BIOS is over my head but I wonder if it is possible in that I have no keyboard or mouse functions. The USB ports are dead. I have tried to force the boot with the F10 key. No joy. Tried to go to safe mode but without the keyboard can't see how to change anything. Only once did it come close to booting and that was from the F1 key. After that the USB never worked again. I probably should not be trying this, considering my limited knowledge. I understated the fact that I am no computer tech.  I wouldn't be here at all did I not like this machine so much. Apparently the few symptoms I have point to nothing definitive. With much less to go on, The Best Buy Geeks went to the mother board like a hungry hound to a pork chop. I would be good with that if I knew the hard drive was OK. Am I correct in thinking the only way to know is by substitution of the drive, one way or another? In my blissful ignorance, it bothers me that the hard drive light comes on for abt 2 seconds at turn on but the drive never responds. I have the DVD burner out so I am looking directly into the hard drive. Of course, I may be reading something into what I see. Another clue observed since first post, Removed RAM card [only has one installed ]and got 5 beeps repeatedly. With card installed, it never beeps at start up.

 

appreciate your help

hefe

[phillpower2]

Hello hefe,

 

If I may chime in with a couple of questions and some info for you while paws is offline 

 

 

Could here fans and maybe hard drive [not sure] but no power light, no signal to monitor. 

 

 

Do you mean no power light on your monitor or on the desktop tower itself.

 

Do you get anything at all showing on your monitor such as the HP splash screen or a "no signal" message.

 

Another clue observed since first post, Removed RAM card [only has one installed ]and got 5 beeps repeatedly. With card installed, it never beeps at start up.

 

 

Some info regarding the power on self test (POST) the fact that you get error beeps with the RAM removed suggests that whatever problem you are having is after the memory has been tested as part of the POST, the next thing checked is the graphics solution which in this instance is the MBs integrated video chip, as the integrated video chip relies on the system RAM for support it is possible ( but less likely ) for flaky RAM or the memory slot/s themselves being bad to cause the loss of the video output.

 

It will depend on the answers to the above as to what test may be suggested for you to try first.

[hefe]

Hi Tech, Thank you for your interest. Hope I am not wasting your time and that of paws as well. After the last post I realized that I am in in over my head with this one. Some times it's something simple that you guys would recognize but I feel this time not so. I just returned from leaving the machine in a local shop. What I was and still am trying for is trade off  between repair and new purchase. I did send it to the Geek shop in Kentucky but my frugal nature and suspicious mind spoiled that.

 

To answer your questions; the power light was the one on the front of the tower. Was not aware of one on the mother board. Of course the green light next to the power connector was on. Until I reset the BIOS, I had no power light. I may not use proper terminology but I think you understand. [I pulled the power and battery, moved the recovery jumper for abt 10 minutes.] The only thing on the monitor had been NO SIGNAL then Monitor Going to Sleep, which it did. The first power on after setting the BIOS the monitor displayed a screen of system information but did not advance With that I touched the F1 key and it advanced to the next screen. Again I do not know the terminology for that screen. It's not into Windows yet but it always comes up in that sequence. Normally, if I clicked the mouse it would advance to the next screen asking for a password which would have completed the Boot. It did not respond. I manually turned it off, tried a restart, numerous times but never again attempted a BOOT. I could never tell if the hard drive was trying to function. I think not. The drive light, [ symbol of three disk ] on the front of the machine, came on each restart for 2-3 seconds but no response that I could detect. USB power only lasted a split second indicated by the mouse light.

 

I sincerely appreciate your interest and expertise but I feel it's probably a waste of your time, all things considered.

 

Thank You

 

hefe

[phillpower2]

Hello hefe,

 

You are not wasting anyone`s time, we volunteer our time because we like to try and help people in situations such as yours.

 

If you are not comfortable troubleshooting this yourself then you have made the right decision with having a local Tech check it out, what I would have suggested was trying the memory stick in the second slot and if you were able to borrow an add on video card for testing purposes.

 

To answer your questions; the power light was the one on the front of the tower. Was not aware of one on the mother board.

 

 

No power light on the chassis being lit up but the fans running could point towards a loose power connection,  crossed wires as I said monitor and not motherboard, this was to see if it could be the display itself.

 

The drive light, [ symbol of three disk ] on the front of the machine, came on each restart for 2-3 seconds but no response that I could detect. USB power only lasted a split second indicated by the mouse light.

 

 

Unfortunately one of the consequences of resetting the BIOS is that the USB ports can become disabled, this causes problems with computers that do not have the wired PS/2 type keyboard connection available.

 

Sorry that we were not able to provide a quick solution for you but would appreciate if you could let us know what the Tech finds.

 

You are welcome btw 

[hefe]

Good morning Phil, Hope I have the name correct. I did clean and move the memory card back and forth. Only thing different was the beeps when no card was present. Did not know how to deal with the graphics. Another question occurred to me. I had changed from Win 8 to 8.1 then to Win 10 which caused no problems but did not improve anything. Would not call it upgrades as Microsoft does. Hard to say which is worse. Wish I could go back to XP. I then tried, with a complete restore, to get back to Win 8. Machine responded with a message "can not restore  file corrupt " or words similar. Now I wonder if there is a conflict between the two systems that made the machine so confused that it went to sleep and can't wake up. You may be on to the problem with the BIOS. I may have caused even more confusion. Part of the reasoning to find a local shop. We all need to know the limits of our abilities. I was a Master Chief Sonar Tech., US navy, 30 years. In retirement obtained FCC Radio Telephone license with Radar endorsement and serviced the fishing fleet in Key West for 15 years. Not a problem. Now with computers, got a problem. They are so intangible. A radar or sonar system would talk to me. A computer just stares as if to say " are you stupid ".

 

I certainly appreciate all of you and your great web site. I am sorry if I left the impression of looking for a quick solution, Not at all and I was not comfortable with my ability to dig into this thing. Probably cause more damage and waste your time. I will get back to you when I get a diagnosis and hopefully, repair.

 

Thanks to all

 

hefe

[hefe]

Phil, paws, et al

 

The shop called with their diagnosis. Based on, "extensive testing",  They think it's a defective chip set. They will not attempt a repair. In their opinion the components are so unreliable, they could not warranty their work. At $370, can't say I blame them. Browsing around the PC forums, there does seem to be something strange about that mother board. I am seeing a trend throughout the industry. I have two Kodak printers dead. The first didn't last through the first ink. The "FREE" replacement didn't last through the first day. Same exact problem. Print head ran to a corner and will not come out. 

 

Thanks again guys. You were a great help in spite of the results.

 

hefe

[phillpower2]

Hello hefe,

 

Sorry to hear that the MB is bad 

 

The $370 repair cost is not justifiable in any event even if the work was covered by warranty, a new MB** will cost around $55 example here and if me swapping the hardware over would only charge circa $70 for doing so.

 

** You will not find an out of the box new like for like MB for the HP Pavillion Slim Line s5-1414 only refurbished ones, before using any other brand of new MB it would be wise to contact Microsoft and explain the situation to them, this because the HP OEM OS that is installed is tied to the original MB and is not transferable unless the original MB fails and a new like for like replacement is unavailable, which is the case in your situation, MS will normally allow an alternative brand of MB be used if you notify them first but may not allow it if you do not and instead advise that you need to purchase a new Windows product key. 

 

You are welcome btw 

[hefe]

Hi btw, Sorry your names are eluding me. I was just finishing a reply when something went wrong. Hope it did not post. Would have made no sense.

 

Thanks for the info. and advice. This has been a learning experience for me. I am not surprised, disgusted but not surprised. Your numbers put this issue in true perspective. I have shopped the internet and found a vast array of boards at a broad range of prices but without your insight, no way to know which way to go. The cost of repair seems to be common. Outrageous but common. Best Buy wanted $329, the recent shop about $370 and several quotes by phone in that range. Considering they are all refurbished and the chip set, new in a box cost as little as $44, it's quite a lucrative business. You just answered another question that occurred to me. Will the new board be recognized? Apparently not. Coincidentally, this machine, which I have used for years, suddenly ask for the product key. It thinks I have a counterfeit. It was refurbished years ago and I do have the key. Always wondered why the tech made an issue of the key. That brought the question to mind. It's a Dell which worked professionally at a University until they upgraded and it became salvage. With some minor work it has been a fine machine for many years. Makes you wonder about HP.

 

Thanks,

 

hefe

[paws]

Hi hefe,

 

Yes the prices you have been quoted for a replacement motherboard and fitting do seem a little high, but there may be a couple of reasons for that I can think of.

 

1 When replacing a motherboard, it's good practice to reinstall the operating system, as sometimes even minor differences in manufacture can make the system unstable or unreliable if this is not done. With an older machine this is even more important as often a direct replacement cannot be obtained and it's necessary to use the nearest equivalent one. The reinstall takes the shop time to do, and if they perform all the available updates, install your anti virus, set up your firewall etc then this all has to be charged out. (I don't know if it's standard practice to perform the above additional tasks in USA.... both Phill and I operate across the water in the UK and I would never just replace a motherboard for one of my customers without setting the whole thing up properly for them)

 

2 The second reason that springs to mind is that a lot of shops just don't want to be bothered with fitting a new motherboard and all the rest of the work providing a new guarantee etc.... to an old piece of kit.... (putting new wine in old bottles etc)  and quote a price that is designed to discourage folks from proceeding.

 

3 For a "technically clued up" chap yourself it should be fairly easy for you to test your motherboard yourself to see if its faulty

  (you never know it could be OK!)

 

4 The easy way to do this is to try and boot from either a Windows installation disc for your operating system or a Live distro of Linux (like for example Puppy Linux)

 

5 Both Phill and I want to help, all we can so either of us or maybe even both of us will be happy to provide a step by step set of directions on how to check out your motherboard using a bootable disc.

 

6 If you find you can boot Ok from the Bootable disc and Puppy works Ok then we have ruled out problems with your motherboard and can focus our attention elsewhere.

 

7 Please don't think that we are trying to pressurize you in any way, we know that it's your machine and your call on how you want to deal with it.... whatever you decide we will respect your decision

regards

paws

[hefe]

Good morning paws, You continue to amaze me. I have never had this much help, with anything. Considering all your comments and explanations, I have decided to replace the board and probably ask for a walk through in setting it up. Since I have other machines with Win 7 and 8 installed, I am considering, if I can find one, going back to XP.

It was very user friendly and for my genealogy hobby, it works very well.

 

However, I must put everything on hold.. My wife of 63 years passed away recently. I need to get away for a while.

 

With your permission, I will check back with you when I return.

 

Thank you, hefe

[paws]

Hi hefe,

So sorry to hear the sad news of your wife's passing.

Please accept our sincere condolences in your loss.

 

We will leave this thread open indefinitely, come back to it whenever you feel it's appropriate, or just leave it, if you wish, its always your choice and your decision.

 

We will still be around if you need us.

Regards

paws

[hefe]

Thank you, hefe