[SomeGuy05]

I recently had a problem with my rig (had a lengthy topic about it here on the boards) and found out the CPU was bad.

Here was the setup:

ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe mainboard
P4 2.6Ghz CPU (which was the bad part)
Arctic Cooling 4ProL HSF (was set to LOW cooling for low db as opposed to Med or High RPMs)
RADEON 9600XT VGA w/Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer (AGP)
Maxtor 120GB HD
2X 5.25 CD drives + Floppy
450W PSU (stock, came with case, exhaust fan was failing)
5X 80mm case fans (stock, came with case, some starting to lose performance)

I was able to get the funds to replace the CPU with a P4 3.0Ghz chip. Also replaced the PSU with a 450W Cooler Master w/120mm fan, 5X Cooler Master 80mm case fans to replace the stock fans (2X rear, 2X front, 1X side-panel), and sleeved IDE/Floppy cables to replace the ribbons to try and get better airflow. Also increasded the HSF to max RPM as opposed to low for a lower db output. There is a generous about of thermal paste between the CPU and the HSF.

The new CPU lasted less than a week. It just blew again last night.

I built the rig about a year and a half ago and have never had any hardware/cooling issues. It has now fried 2 chips in less than a week. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? The CPU warranty was void the second I installed it myself, but on the other hand, there's no point in replacing it again if some issue is causing the chips to fry.

I'm about at my wits end with this. Please respond if you have any idea what the poroblem may be. I really need that PC up and running.

Edited by SomeGuy05, 23 August 2005 - 12:03 PM.

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Hi,

My first guess would have been the psu but since you replaced that with a good quality one that ain't it.

You mentioned applying a generous amount of thermal paste sometimes depending on the type of paste this is not a good thing and can actually overheat the cpu or cause a short if it got on the cpu bridges.

I don't think your warenty is void because you installed the cpu, I would try a RMA.
When you do get a replacement try artic silver5 themal paste and follow the instructions on their website on how to apply

Do you know what the temps were the cpu was running at and at what load?
Were you overclocking?

Maybe the second one was just a bad chip.

Rick

[Doby]

Hi,

My first guess would have been the psu but since you replaced that with a good quality one that ain't it.

You mentioned applying a generous amount of thermal paste sometimes depending on the type of paste this is not a good thing and can actually overheat the cpu or cause a short if it got on the cpu bridges.

I don't think your warenty is void because you installed the cpu, I would try a RMA.
When you do get a replacement try artic silver5 themal paste and follow the instructions on their website on how to apply

Do you know what the temps were the cpu was running at and at what load?
Were you overclocking?

Maybe the second one was just a bad chip.

Rick

[Tyger]

Are your voltage jumpers correct for the CPU?

[Jack123]

Topic: CPU COOLING
Date: 23rd AUG- 2005

CPU COOLING ISSUES:

You said that you never had a CPU Cooling issues – Do you have a CPU Heat Monitor Utility program installed on PC? What was Temperature of CPU when running at 100%? – If not, then what do you base this statement on?

Ideally – you would like to maintain the CPU Temperature around (40°C - 45°C) – And maintain ± 2°C change from CPU running [IDLE – 100%]

Did you mount the CPU fan onto Heat Sink properly so that: [AIR WAS FLOWING INTO] the Heat Sink?
Air is supposed to flow into the Heat Sink from the top & force [HOT AIR] out thru the side fins of the Heat Sink to be exhausted out the upper rear of case.

Did you connect the CPU to the correct [Motherboard CPU Fan Connector]?

Have you properly set BIOS Settings on [CPU FAN SPEED]?

Did you read [INSTRUCTIONS] on Heat Sink Paste? – Too much is probably worse than none at all! – It is suppose to give better heat transfer between CPU & Heat Sink – but too much will add too much [CONTACT RESISTANCE] & cause: [INFANTILE FAILURE]. The proper application will reduce the CPU temperature by 10°C at the most, but too much could add 20°C - 30°C and could cause [HOT SPOTS].

Did you attach Heat Sink Assembly to CPU Chip properly & secured [LOCKING DEVICE/CLIP] properly?

Too large of a Side Fan can cause [AIR TURBULANCE] and actually reduce CPU Cooling efficiency.
You should have more [EXHAUST] capacity than intake. You want to EXHAUST the [HOT AIR] quickly.

The proper air flow should be a positive flow from [Lower Front] of case, and travel along [Bottom] of case, and be exhausted out [Top Rear] of case.

[Air Filters] for [Intake Fans] should be used and properly maintained to keep dust buildup at a minimum.

Leave adequate space around case to allow [PROPER BREATHING] – both [COOL AIR INTAKE] & [HOT AIR EXHAUST].

Try to leave the 1st [Expansion Card] slot near Video/Graphics Card open – for proper [Breathing] of Video Card Cooling.

Try to maintain a low Ambient Room Temperature for better Case Cooling.
Jack123

[The Skeptic]

I have only one thing to add: enable computer shutoff in the bios if temperature of the cpu goes above, say, 70C. This way you will not burn the cpu while looking for the cause of overheating.

[SomeGuy05]

Thank you for all the replies, I'll try to answer all of the return questions.

"Generous" was a bad term to use I suppose in my original post about the thermal compound. It was applied as it should have been. It was Arctic Cooling brand. I was able to find a tube of AS5 at a local store last night, so I have that now.

As far as the mounting/wiring of the HSF, yes, it was done correctly. It fits the fixture as it should and everything is functioning properly.

The case fans: As I mentioned, all Cooler Master 80mm. The two intake fans on the front are low on the case and completely unobstructed. The two exhaust on the back are mounted higher (directly next to the HSF specifically). There is also one intake fan in the center of the side-panel. I also keep a can of compressed air at the desk to periodically clear dust from the fan grills and inner case. The rig itself is also unobstructed by any nearby objects.

The VGA is in no way cramped. There is nothing in the first four expansion slots from the VGA. I only run one PCI device (Ethernet), and it's in the fifth slot from the VGA.

The VGA is overclocked (30% is the amount I believe, sure wish I could turn it on to find out for sure). It runs up-to-date Catalyst drivers. Idle is in the mid-low 30's, gaming brings it to the mid-high 40's, sometimes mid-50's under the highest load I ever put on it. It has the AC VGA Silencer on it rather than the stock ATI HSF which works like a charm. Never a threatening temperature (at least those temperatures don't look bad to me, but I'm not quite an expert yet on safe operating temperatures). The VGA itself has always worked flawlessly though (8X AGP).

The CPU temp, on the other hand, is something I have not checked in some time. I used to, but after 8 months or so with no threat under the heaviest load I put it under, I stopped keeping track of it (mistake, I know, got too comfortable). I don't currently have a third-party program to monitor the CPU temp. Can you recommend one? I never OC the CPU. Have had no reason too, and now is obviously not the best time to start.

Also, thank you for the tip about the BIOS overheat/shutoff. I'll have to look for it in the BIOS when/if I get up and running. Is 70c a good temp to set the cutoff? I'm not sure about what temperature a P4 chip overloads at. I definately want to set it low enough to avoid damage, but of course not so low that my rig will turn out the lights during gaming under a reasonable temperature.

Thanks again for the info, as well as any future suggestions, especially about the BIOS/temperatures and any good CPU temp monitoring programs. I'm going to head out today to check out chips, as well as HSF's. Unfortunately no one in my area carries the new line of Arctic Cooling HSF's (which have had nothing but glowing reviews, especially with AS5 compound). There is some visible wear/scratching on the contact point of my HSF, but it doesn't look like anything serious.

[The Skeptic]

About shutoff temp: It depends on your bios. In my computer, for example, the lowest shutoff temp is 80c. I would prefer a somewhat lower temperature, so it is up to your bios.

[SomeGuy05]

Do you happen to know a way to find out what temp any given CPU can handle without causing damage? Mine came OEM, no documentation. I don't know if that information would have been in there or not anyway.

[The Skeptic]

You will hear different numbers. Shutoff temp is an extreme to avoid inmmediate damage to the cpu. It is not advisable to work in high temps for long periods because slow degradation can take place. In most cases you will hear that temp should be 40-45c. In my experience I wouldn't worry about temps in the range of 55c. I definitely wouldn't like more than that for a long period of time.

There is a good monitoring software called SpeedFan it is free. Try to download it
(after operating the computer, of course)

[Jack123]

If you have the Motherboard Installation CD - it should contain a utility for measuring Temps & Voltages & fan speeds - Browse thru it -

Or download [EVEREST] Free Home Edition at:

http://www.lavalys.c...p?pid=1&lang=en

Install & run - - - Expand [COMPUTER] Folder & Click on [SENSOR] Folder to see Temps & fan speeds

[EVEREST] will also describe motherboard - visit WEB site & Browse for TEMP MONITOR UTILITY-

NOTE ON MONITOR PROGRAMS -

Only run 1 at a time - They tend to run in background & are like scanner programs - they will confuse each other -

The measurements are an [AVERAGING] - and will get mixed up-

Some of the better ones you can set up warning values/limits and will sound an alarm if values are exceded.

Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 24 August 2005 - 07:36 PM.

[SomeGuy05]

Alright, I got a new CPU (P4 3.0Ghz again) and HSF today. I now have 2 problems:

1. I see nothing in the BIOS about any feature to shutdown the PC if the temp reaches a set temperature.

2. I've been powered on and in the BIOS menu for about 20 minutes now. According to the Hardware Monitor, the CPU temp is 49c just sitting idle in the BIOS menu. I get the distinct feeling that that's way too high.

I'm afraid to let it boot up and start working/gaming on it with a temp this high already. Now I really don't know what to do. I've replaced every piece of hardware that has anything to do with cooling.....

I'm out of ideas.

EDIT: The HSF I purchased it the Zalman CNPS7000B. From reviews from newegg.com and people I spoke to who do the same type of gaming I do, it's absolutely top-shelf. Many have replaced their Thermaltake HSF's with this one and experienced significant drops in temp. All who detailed their specs have an idle temp in the low 30's and even high-20's celsius. But for some reason I appear to be an exception...

EDIT EDIT: I found an option in the BIOS - SYSTEM THERMAL - Description: "Disable/Enable Thermal to generate a power management event". Enabling it opened a new sub-menu - THERMAL ACTIVE TEMPERATURE. I set it at 60c for now. It can be set at increments of 5c up to 80c. I assume the "event" is a power-off, but I can't be sure.

--- I downloaded SpeedFan, but it's a bit difficult to understand what temp refers to which part. The names of the readings are Temp1, Temp2, Temp3, Temp, Temp, and HD0. I assume the CPU is one of the numbered temps, but which one? The three have a range from 32c-48c.

--- EVEREST reads the temp at 41c-42c currently idle at the desktop. However the BIOS monitor still reads it as 48.5c-49.5c... This is getting confusing.

Edited by SomeGuy05, 24 August 2005 - 10:20 PM.

[The Skeptic]

Not every bios have the option of temp shutoff. In my computer, for example, (MSI board, Phoenix AWARDbios) I have the following options:

Smart fan target temp
smart fan temp tolerance
cpu warning temp
shutdown temp

If your fan is capable of variable speeds then you set target temp (say, 45c) and a tolerance of say, 5c. If cpu temp goes above 50c the fan will increase speed and will slow down at 40c.

You can choose either cpu warning temp or shutdown temp. I prefer shutdown in case something happens and I am not near the computer. The minimum allowed is 80c.

Regarding Speedfan, it is true that it is not very clear bt I assume that cpu temp is the highest. You can run it in the background, run the computer with one of your programs and check every few minutes to see what the temp is. If it keeps climbing above 60c then you have a problem and you have to keep looking for it.

[The Skeptic]

--- I downloaded SpeedFan, but it's a bit difficult to understand what temp refers to which part. The names of the readings are Temp1, Temp2, Temp3, Temp, Temp, and HD0. I assume the CPU is one of the numbered temps, but which one? The three have a range from 32c-48c.


How can I identify my CPU temperature?
To find your CPU's temperature sensor you can leave your system idle for a few minutes, to let temperatures drop, and then go to 100% usage for a while. The temperature that rises faster is the one you're searching for. Other available temperature readings usually come from your sensor chip itself, from the southbridge, the voltage regulator, or even from an additional probe placed under the processor. This additional temperature sensor is not necessarily a duplicate. Some CPUs are not actually able to report the internal temperature from their die. To be able to read their temperatures, an additional external sensor (thermocouple) is used. In such cases, you will see two temperatures referring to the processor. The higher of the two is from the die. As a final note, please remember that not all available temperature sensors are actually connected to something. If you happen to read unusually high or low temps, they are likely to be from a disconnected (unused) temperature sensor.

[SomeGuy05]

Here's a copy of a report from EVEREST when the PC is idle.

--------[ Sensor ]------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type Winbond W83627THF (ISA 290h)
GPU Sensor Type National LM63 (ATI-I2C 4Ch)
Motherboard Name Asus P4C800 / P4P800 / P4P8X

Temperatures:
Motherboard 33 °C (91 °F)
CPU 42 °C (108 °F)
GPU 35 °C (95 °F)
GPU Ambient 36 °C (97 °F)
Maxtor 6Y120P0 29 °C (84 °F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 2446 RPM

Voltage Values:
CPU Core 1.38 V
+3.3 V 3.28 V
+5 V 5.03 V
+12 V 12.10 V
+5 V Standby 5.03 V
Debug Info F FF 8A FF
Debug Info T 33 42 208
Debug Info V 58 C7 CD BB C0 42 04 (03)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The CPU fan is 92mm by the way.

The CPU temp will quickly rise as high as 54c while doing multiple normal activities simultainiously, such as browsing, downloading, installing/removing programs, etc. I'm not even going to attempt gaming until I can figure out why this is happening. Like I mentioned, after the first chip burned out, the second only lasted a few days. I'm lost as to what should be done.

Edited by SomeGuy05, 25 August 2005 - 05:15 PM.

[csu266]

I would just like to ask for some help as well, luckily I have not burned out any chips or friend anything for the past 4 months that I have owned this computer.

My questions is, I have 5 fans, one intake in front, one more intake on side panel blowing on top of CPU, stock AMD hsf over AMD Athlong XP 3000+, 2 exhaust fans out back. Even with this setup, the temp program that came with my motherboard states that my idle temp ranges from 48-50c, and usually during gaming it gets as high as 57, on occassion I have seen it at 62 but that was once. I do not like these temps and I have artic silver compound as per instructions between the heat sink and processor. Is there anything else I can do to bring my temps down?