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Need Power Supply Schematic


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#1
macx

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Hello all. Old newbie here, trying to get up to speed.

Finally broke down and started building a new system -
I'm too old to game, this all started out as a home video
project.

Anyway - gathered all my components, now I'm working
to assemble them.

The case came with an Okia Model 500-ATX power supply.
But no wiring schematic.

I'm trying to identify the power supply fan plug - what seems
to be it doesn't at all match the connector on the board.
And I've got that positively identified by the board manual.

The board has a small male 3 pin connection. The only thing I
can find that might be the fan connector coming from the
supply is a small 4 pin plug at the end of 1 of the strings of
drive power harnesses. Nothing tucked up behind the
supply case or anything.

Is that likely to be it? Or would that be for a floppy or something?

I tried to Search for a wiring schematic, but could find nothing.

At the risk of getting ahead of myself, in case I need to adapt
something like that to the different style male connector on the
board, in this case or something else I may find as i progress,
is there some type of source for adapters, or what would I do?

Bear with me, this probly won't be the last question I'll dream up -
just getting started.

While I'm at it - the board manual talks about a connector
for a power supply that senses board temps - that's another reason
I'd like to find a schematic or some sort of instructions for the power supply.

OH! The plug for the 2 fans in the case doesn't match the small male 3 pin
connection on the board (either). Is it adapter time, or??? Guess I really
will need a source for them if that's what I have to do.

Thanks for helping an "old" computer student still (and probly always)
in a definite learning curve! :tazz:

Edited by macx, 16 October 2005 - 01:22 AM.

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#2
Kurt_Aust

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By the sounds of it, it's just as well you asked before plugging things in and turning on the power.

The little 4 pin female adaptor at the end of one of the leads from the power supply is for the floppy drive.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the power supply fan plug, the fan in the power supply itself doesn't need a lead, are you talking about some other fan on the case?

The 3 pin connector on the board could be any number of things, but they are usually well labelled and the manuals are generally quite specific. At a guess, if it's near where the CPU plugs in, it may very well be where you connect the fan on the CPU.

It would help if you could list your motherboard make and model.
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#3
Jack123

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Topic-ATX Power Supply Form Factor
Date-16th Oct-2005

Hi & welcome-

What you are inquiring about is [Technically Referred to] as [ATX Power Supply Form Factor] – Now this is a rather large subject to cover within a Posting – I will : -
(1) –Cover your direct questions about the [Fan Connectors] rather quickly in this 1st Post – & The other items listed will be covered in later Postings –


(2) – Give you other [Factors] to consider –
(3) - Will give you some [Links] to pursue –
(4) – Suggestions –
_____________________________________________________________

(1) – The Fan Connections/Connectors can be confusing – Years ago a Fan was just a fan – but as CPUs became faster & more powerful – [Cooling] has become a Primary Component in PC Design – The Cases or Enclosures are designed with efficient cooling – with that in mind – There are significant differences in the [Quality] of these Enclosures – which directly has a impact on – [PC Performance] –

There are several types of [Fan/PS] Connectors as you have discovered – The smallest –[3 Pin Type] – is for Motherboard [Fan Speed Control] – The 3 wiring connections are – [V+] – [V-] – [RPM/Tach Out] – There are 2 Motherboard [Fan Control] Connections – [CPU] & [Chassis] – {Important to have Proper Connection] –

The [Fan Harness] are sometimes supplied with the Motherboard – or with [CPU Heatsink/Fan Assembly] or with the [Fan] – Some of the Chassis Fans come with a [Connection Array] where it will have a [Native] Large [4 Pin] Male Connector attached to a Large [4 Pin] – [Pass Thru 4 Pin] Connector with a [6 Inch Adapter Harness] with a [Small- Male 3 Pin] Connector & a [Small-Female 3 Pin] Connector – The smaller 3 Pin Male would plug into the Motherboard [Chassis Fan] Connection – The other 2 female connectors [Large & Small] are to be used – in place of the – [OLD Y] Connector –

This eliminates the need to purchase the [Adaptors] – More Peripherals are also coming equipped with [Self contained –Y Adapter Connection Harness]

The Connectors with Male Pins are {COLD} & the Connectors with Female Sockets are {HOT} – The Female Pins are {Protected} from shorting out by [Not being EXPOSED]

The CPU Fan Assemblies generally will have a [Native] 3 pin Connector [Male] Connector to plug into the Motherboard [CPU] Fan Connection –

Now the [Smaller 4 Pin] Connector on PS – is probably for the Serial Hard Drives & Floppy Drives –

The [Larger 4 Pin] Connectors are for other Peripherals that are contained in Enclosure –

Some PS will have 2 or 3 [Larger 4 Pin] Connectors that are labeled [FAN ONLY] – These are to be used with some of your [Chassis] Fans – These connectors have a [Speed Control] Circuit contained in the PS – They are generally limited to 2 or 3 Fans -

EDITED - The Power for the Power Supply Fans are - [Self Contained internal to Power Supply] - This prevents you from turning on the Power Supply without Fan Power - {Prevents PS Damage during an External Bench Test] -

______________________________________________________________


I will prepare another Post – [Other Factors to Consider] – but as a quick suggestion – Browse thru the [FORUM]- There is a Good POST in the [PINED] Section Of this Section- Titled [New Building Problems] - Also there is a Section on – [SYSTEM BUILDING] – which may find some interest – You do not have to Post – just browse – Also at the bottom of each Post – there is a section called – [Similar Threads] – that should help –

Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 16 October 2005 - 02:43 PM.

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#4
Jack123

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Topic-ATX Power Supply Form Factor-(2)
Date-16th Oct-2005

Sorry – In my haste to answer your Post about Fan Connections – I see that I did not answer your question about the PS Fan Connection – The Fan Connection is [Internal/Self contained] – You cannot run PS without Fan Power – If there are any Connectors that are Labeled [FAN ONLY] – These Connectors are FEMALE – [FAN OUTPUT POWER] – Connections – And are used to Provide Fan Power to the Chassis Fans –

As a – [Rule of Thumb] – Plug Type Connectors with Female Sockets – are the Power Supplying Connectors – That feed Power to Devices – The Receptacle Type Connectors with Male Pins – are the Power Receiving Connectors – That Receive Power for the Devices –

Jack123

Edited by Jack123, 16 October 2005 - 02:35 PM.

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#5
macx

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OK - I'll try and wade thru this one item at a time, as in
"divide and (hopefully) conquer"

ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe board

1) Of course, you're obviously right about the PS internal fan
coming on automatically. Don't know why that didn't make itself
apparent to me. Duh! However, the board does have a small 3 pin male
connection labeled PWR fan and the pins are labeled Rotation,
+12V & GRND, and the instructions state at 12V and the black wire
should match the GRND pin.. That's all the board manual says about
that subject. That (PWR) does refer to the PS fan, right?

2) The board manual (not anything w/the PS) says that IF the PS has
a thermal monitoring feature, to connect the 2 pin connector to the
TRPWR 2 pin connection on the board. There's no 2 pin connector coming from the PS, but there is a thermal monitor on the front of the case - maybe that 2 pin connector would input to that thermal monitor?
Would it maybe be adviseable to HAVE a PS with that thermal monitoring
feature? If so, what might be a good one? (Maybe then I'd get all the
necessary cabling.) The board manual further says the CPU temp is
monitored by the ASIC to prevent overheating. (and) The system fans
are monitored for rotation RPM for timely failure detection. Doesn't necessarily connect that to that 2 pin CPU thermal monitoring topic.
???? Basically, it sounds like my PS does not have the thermal monitoring feature or the variable fan speed control feature. Again, probly good to have and what is a good one in the 500w range that would have that?

3) I have ID'd the CPU fan connector per the board manual.
The CPU fan female plug appears to match the male 3 prong connect
on the board. So no apparent problem there.

4) I have also ID'd the "Chassis" fan connecter in the board manual
and on the board. Small, 3 pin male connection. The 2 case fans have dual ("Y"?) plugs, male and female, that I realized match the plugs for the device power supplies, and would allow the 2 fan plugs to be connected together piggy back fashion to one power plug. Maybe the intent was to plug the case fans into one of those device power supply plugs? However, I understand the board allows for variable speed control of the case fans relating to the board's current temperature. I, of course, would like to take advantage of that feature - but per above sounds like I'd need a diff PS with the thermal monitoring and variable fan speed control to do that. In the meantime, could I get an adapter to mate the drive type power plugs for the fans to the little male 3 prong connection on the board, (or should I just remove this PS and get a good one with the right features? Sounds like maybe the way to go.) And would I risk drawing too much off that connection to run 2 fans? They're both 12v 0.14amp.

The board manual says the 3 fan plugs cumulatively support up to 2.22A, so if I run the CPU fan at 0.34a and two case fans at 0.14a each, I should be well within that range, as it also looks like I will not be drawing anything off of the PWR fan connection.

Rereading your post, it sounds like I need the 6" adapter cable to connect the drive type plug from the fans to the small 3 pin male connection on the board. (Nothing with the board or PS to accomplish that.) Where to get one of those? Radio Shack maybe? OR if I were to get a PS with
the variable fan speed control, would I then be driving the case fans from the PS rather than from the board?

(As for the small 4 pin female connector on the end of one of the device power cable bundles, of course you're right - that's for the floppy.)

Carefully rechecking all the plugs coming out of the PS, nothing is labeled.
There are 2 harnesses for devices, one with 3 of the female plugs, and one harness with 2 of them and the floppy plug.

There is one additional harness out of the PS that has a 6 wire female
plug that is as wide overall as the drive power plugs but is apparently
for small, flat prongs rather than round pins. There are 3 black wires,
2 orange and 1 red to that plug from the PS. There's no male connection on the board with 6 flat pins in a row.

Whew! But all this IS finally starting to make some sense as I read your
post and reread the manual and put 2 and 2 together.

Really appreciate all your input and time you've devoted to helping me
figure all this out!
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#6
macx

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OK - read thru some PS stickies, went to the linked site and
looked at a number of Enermax PSs.

Until I did that, I THOUGHT I was getting a handle on what
I needed :)

In the descriptions and specs of the wide variety of PSs,
I found MORE jargon and terms that I'd never seen before.

Here's my system

ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe board
P4 2.8 CPU
2 SATA drives
1 IDE drive
DVD+RW drive
ASUS N6600GT graphics card
1g RAM (for starters anyway)

Some of the different features I
have SOME idea about are delayed
fan shutoff to cool down components
after the system is shutdown, sounds
like a good thing, SATA drive connectivity
(the power plugs on the SATA and IDE
drives look the same - ??), something
called smart fan - does that refer to
internal or "chassis" fans?.

I'm looking for a ~450w supply.
Sufficient, plus some room for growth?

The board has a 3 pin connector for
"PWR FAN" (the manual doesn't explain
what that actually does or is for)
and does have a 2 pin power supply
thermal connector (I guess that's the
thermal monitor feature).

And the board manual talks about a PS
having the ability to vary (case or PS?)
fan speed depending on temp conditions.
If the PS has the Thermal Monitoring feature,
does this mean the system/PS will be able to
vary the case fan speeds to meet thermal
requirements?

Now - if the PS does the varying on (case?)
fan speed, where does the 3 pin "CHA FAN"
connector on the board come in?

OR - is the variable fan speed referring to the
internal PS fan(s)? and then does the 3 pin
CHA FAN connector on the board actually
power and run/control the fans?

Frustrating - the more I learn, the more I find
I don't know. One mystery solved just seems to
lead to 3 more mysteries!

I want to buy a PS that will do what I need it to do
and have plenty power capacity as well as good
power stability to preclude damage to the system,
but some of the $150+ PSs talk more about the next
step up in processors, etc etc, that I wouldn't seem
to need.

Could anybody make a recommendation for a good
supply with all needed features and wattage without
features for newer systems that I don't need that drive
the price up?

Thanks Thanks Thanks :tazz:

Edited by macx, 16 October 2005 - 10:00 PM.

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#7
Kurt_Aust

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Re your post No. 5

1. The PWR_FAN and CHA_FAN description on the motherboard are just there so that you know which one BIOS is referring to when it returns their current state. There is no requirement to fit them to any particular fan, just use whatever is closest.

4. By your description, the case fans have piggyback plugs to fit between the PSU and CDROMs, if so then you will NOT be able to adapt them to the motherboard (no rotation sensor). This is perfectly normal, now while you will not get info or monitoring about them from the BIOS, it doesn't really matter. Unless you are under extreme enviromental conditions, if they fail it isn't critical, the CPU fan is the important one.

Again from your description the flat 6 line connector from your PSU is for a SATA hard drive (should have a truncated "L" shape), if yours don't have that type of connector, don't worry about it.

The "smart" fan is one controlled by BIOS to activate only when needed in order to extend it's lifespan.

Honestly, what you've got should be perfectly fine, it may not have all the bells and whistles, but it's not like you need them. Hope this helps
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#8
macx

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Kurt - Thanks!!! Now I can at least proceed.

I keep going over and over this situation, and slowly the light has
been coming on. Late last nite I came to the same conclusion,
realizing I could hook everything up using this PS and at least get
the thing up and running.

Yes, the case fans do have the piggyback type of conn. so I could hook
both of them onto 1 of the normal 4 wire drive connectors. I'm just
the type that if there's "something there" (like the fan rotation thing)
I like to be able to use it :-) Guess I'm somewhat of a gadget freak.

I finally also realized that, since the board gives a cumulative capacity
for all three fan conn on the board, it must be a common power feed.

On the small 6 wire flat plug for a SATA drive, I looked at mine and they
have conventional 4 wire round power connectors - is it just that some
have SATA drives have switched to or also have this smaller type of
6 wire connector? My drives do have some other connectors that
are flat but they don't match this 6 wire one out of the PS. As long
as they'll run with the 4 wire round conn, that should be all that matters.
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#9
Kurt_Aust

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All SATA drives will have a flat 4-pin data connector (approx 1cm wide). They will have either a SATA power connector (flat, approx 3cm wide) or a standard IDE power connector, it probably depends on the supplier.
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#10
macx

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Kurt -

Right on!

I dug thru my pile (literally!) of parts & pieces,
(amazing how much STUFF goes into building a
computer with 3 hard drives, 2 of which are SATA,
all kinds of front panel connections, a DVD+RW drive,
a floppy, a graphics card, etc etc.

Now that I know what the other connectors on the
drives are for, I was able to ID those flat pin connectors
you're talking about, plus even a cable that adapts the
regular 4 pin power plug to 2 SATA flat power connectors.
AMAZING!

Stick around, I'm sure I'll need more expert advice as
I struggle thru this bit by bit!! :-)
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#11
macx

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Kurt -

Right on!

I dug thru my pile (literally!) of parts & pieces,
(amazing how much STUFF goes into building a
computer with 3 hard drives, 2 of which are SATA,
all kinds of front panel connections, a DVD+RW drive,
a floppy, a graphics card, etc etc.

Now that I know what the other connectors on the
drives are for, I was able to ID those flat pin connectors
you're talking about, plus even a cable that adapts the
regular 4 pin power plug to 2 SATA flat power connectors.
AMAZING!

Stick around, I'm sure I'll need more expert advice as
I struggle thru this bit by bit!! :-)
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