[admin]

Feel free to discuss coffee shop rules and recent changes here.

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Slurp...
Ahh...
<sets coffee cup down on table> *clunk*
<raises cup>
Slurp...
Ahh....
<sets coffee cup down on table> *clunk*

<looks around>
<notices shop employees are all drinking coffee>
<gets up, leaves table, exits shop into shopping mall arena>
<notices everyone else in arena is drinking coffee>
<and rolls eyes upwards in half-disgust...>
<...and notices a sign in the ceiling which said...>
COFFEE SHOP FORUM

"Ah, well..."

<goes back into the coffee cafe he just came from, orders more coffee>
Slurp...
Ah...
<sets coffee cup down on table> *clunk*

[mdoc]

Slurp...
Ahh...
<sets coffee cup down on table> *clunk*
<raises cup>
Slurp...
Ahh....
<sets coffee cup down on table> *clunk*

<looks around>
<notices shop employees are all drinking coffee>
<gets up, leaves table, exits shop into shopping mall arena>
<notices everyone else in arena is drinking coffee>
<and rolls eyes upwards in half-disgust...>
<...and notices a sign in the ceiling which said...>
COFFEE SHOP FORUM

"Ah, well..."

<goes back into the coffee cafe he just came from, orders more coffee>
Slurp...
Ah...
<sets coffee cup down on table> *clunk*

[admin]

I get your point. Moved to rules discussion.

It's possible to have good conversation without discussing abortion, politics, religion or sex.

[dsenette]

it's also possible to h ave a civil discussion about those topics.....though....i agree they shouldn't be the only topics (which they seem to be as of late)

[nick_mi]

I truely feel they should be open to discussion, I've been to my share of forums, and I run a couple myself, and I have to say this forum is BY FAR the most mature forums I've E-V-E-R been on. I've read the topics(missed the abortion one though), and all of them are civil, statement, and overall educational(to me anyways =/). We also have a very talented and active staff/mod that allow any one stepping out of line to be quickly punished or let known of his wrong doings.

I truely feel that we are over reacting to one topic, and that this forum is more than mature enough to handle those topics.

[warriorscot]

Its just the topics people have started(probably becasue other forums dont allow them) kinda defeats the point of our little discuss anything area if we cant discuss the things we cant discuss elsewhere, besides we have more trouble with peoples posts when talkng about graphics cards than we do with religion everyone has been very mature and civil about everything i see no reason why the rules should have been changed in the first place the forum does have that big warning on it and we havent had a single flame war on here and in fact the number of posts that were offensive can be counted on one hand and usually it was just ignorance of other peoples feelings and not reading the post before it was closed.

If you are going to ban the controversial topics you should close this part of the forum entirely then because we have the normal off topic board to discuss non imflamatory/controversial things.

If someone doesnt have want to discuss something like sex religion or politics then they can always start a new topic but the very fact they were made would signify there is a demand for people to talk about these things openly.

Edited by warriorscot, 23 November 2005 - 10:28 AM.

[admin]

No one said there couldn't be any controversial topics, but this site exists to provide free computer help. When we have topics that may offend some people so much that they no longer want to participate here, then that's a problem.

People have very strong and personal feeling about many topics, but especially those outlined in the rules. You won't often find them on the editorial page of your local paper, or on many talk radio stations for the same reasons.

1) Politics: There are obviously political talk shows, but they typically only attract only people sharing similar points of view. I think that illustrates my point. Do we want to only offer computer help to people that are pro-life, or conservative? Also, politics are local, and this is a global site.

2) Abortion: A very divisive issue. People generally believe very strongly one way or the other and are not going to change. Many difficult decisions have been made regarding abortion, and I think most will agree it's a difficult topic.

3) Religion: A very personal and strong belief. There are many differing beliefs around the world, and many nations have gone to war over religion. Offense may be taken to any comments that may not agree with their beliefs.

4) Sex: This is a family friendly forum, accessible by all, and sex is not an appropriate discussion for all ages.

By the way, I think I closed 4 topics, out of 20+ active in this forum. I don't think that means this forum is dead.

[warriorscot]

No but it is kinda restricting the range of conversation a bit, what about global politics(we havent had any proper politics anyway) but what if we want to talk about the latest UN resolution of some such or discuss the political implications of sending industry abroad.

Abortion was a pretty dull topic after a while anyway and it was a very civil discussion for the most part. And people go to war over religion because people dont talk to other people about religion religous wars are alway 9/10ths ignorance so the ability to discuss it in a civilised manner is a great thing, that and we all worked hard to keep the forum civil and it did i wouldnt mind it so much if it was being abused but like i said we have had more flaming and abuse from topics on computer hardware than we have had in this forum.

And it does say on the top of this forum "his forum is for serious, civilized and thoughtful debate regarding potentially controversial topics. Please remember to respect your fellow forum members. No name calling, personal attacks, insults, harassment, etc. State your opinions, but don't try to impose them on others" it seems unfair to us who want to discuss things that arent whats the weather and whats your favourite animal a chance to discuss them.

It wasnt broke so i dont see why it needed fixing is my point, that and blanket bans are always asking for trouble there is no rule that doesnt have an exception, it would have been enough to put a little warning on starting topics about sex to be careful because its a family site.

I didnt say it would kill the forum but it certainly takes half the fun out of it and whats the point of a special area of the forum for talking about controversial topics if we cant actually talk about controversial topics we would be as well posting them on the main OT board.

Just seems unfair to say no we cant talk about things in the forum we are supposed to be able to talk about anything and especially when it has all been kept so civilised and polite. just a bit PC, sorry im rambling im just a bit dissapointed really.

[nick_mi]

No but it is kinda restricting the range of conversation a bit, what about global politics(we havent had any proper politics anyway) but what if we want to talk about the latest UN resolution of some such or discuss the political implications of sending industry abroad.

Abortion was a pretty dull topic after a while anyway and it was a very civil discussion for the most part. And people go to war over religion because people dont talk to other people about religion religous wars are alway 9/10ths ignorance so the ability to discuss it in a civilised manner is a great thing, that and we all worked hard to keep the forum civil and it did i wouldnt mind it so much if it was being abused but like i said we have had more flaming and abuse from topics on computer hardware than we have had in this forum.

And it does say on the top of this forum "his forum is for serious, civilized and thoughtful debate regarding potentially controversial topics. Please remember to respect your fellow forum members. No name calling, personal attacks, insults, harassment, etc. State your opinions, but don't try to impose them on others" it seems unfair to us who want to discuss things that arent whats the weather and whats your favourite animal a chance to discuss them.

It wasnt broke so i dont see why it needed fixing is my point, that and blanket bans are always asking for trouble there is no rule that doesnt have an exception, it would have been enough to put a little warning on starting topics about sex to be careful because its a family site.

I didnt say it would kill the forum but it certainly takes half the fun out of it and whats the point of a special area of the forum for talking about controversial topics if we cant actually talk about controversial topics we would be as well posting them on the main OT board.

Just seems unfair to say no we cant talk about things in the forum we are supposed to be able to talk about anything and especially when it has all been kept so civilised and polite. just a bit PC, sorry im rambling im just a bit dissapointed really.

Agreed'd

[MasterJ]

No but it is kinda restricting the range of conversation a bit, what about global politics(we havent had any proper politics anyway) but what if we want to talk about the latest UN resolution of some such or discuss the political implications of sending industry abroad.

Abortion was a pretty dull topic after a while anyway and it was a very civil discussion for the most part. And people go to war over religion because people dont talk to other people about religion religous wars are alway 9/10ths ignorance so the ability to discuss it in a civilised manner is a great thing, that and we all worked hard to keep the forum civil and it did i wouldnt mind it so much if it was being abused but like i said we have had more flaming and abuse from topics on computer hardware than we have had in this forum.

And it does say on the top of this forum "his forum is for serious, civilized and thoughtful debate regarding potentially controversial topics. Please remember to respect your fellow forum members. No name calling, personal attacks, insults, harassment, etc. State your opinions, but don't try to impose them on others" it seems unfair to us who want to discuss things that arent whats the weather and whats your favourite animal a chance to discuss them.

It wasnt broke so i dont see why it needed fixing is my point, that and blanket bans are always asking for trouble there is no rule that doesnt have an exception, it would have been enough to put a little warning on starting topics about sex to be careful because its a family site.

I didnt say it would kill the forum but it certainly takes half the fun out of it and whats the point of a special area of the forum for talking about controversial topics if we cant actually talk about controversial topics we would be as well posting them on the main OT board.

Just seems unfair to say no we cant talk about things in the forum we are supposed to be able to talk about anything and especially when it has all been kept so civilised and polite. just a bit PC, sorry im rambling im just a bit dissapointed really.

I couldn't agree more.

[ScHwErV]

The main problem with the argument that everyone is so happy to agree with is that you dont get to know what we know. You can say you dont think its broken because you have not had the discussions that we have had. When we have members of this site about to leave because of topics in this forum, it becomes apparent that something is broken.

As Admin already said, first and foremost, this is a computer help site.

ScHwErV

[MasterJ]

Here's a suggestion. How about someone here goes and creates another forum specifically for the Coffee Shop. That way, both sides win. I'd be willing to, but I wouldn't be able to do much tinkering around with the forum design and such.

[nick_mi]

The main problem with the argument that everyone is so happy to agree with is that you dont get to know what we know. You can say you dont think its broken because you have not had the discussions that we have had. When we have members of this site about to leave because of topics in this forum, it becomes apparent that something is broken.

As Admin already said, first and foremost, this is a computer help site.

ScHwErV

You have 138,659 members at this website. It will be IMPOSSIBLE to appease everyone. Everyone that is speaking out about this and voicing thier opionon, has said that they do not think it is a problem. It's going to have the same effect, people will stop coming here because they can not talk about those topics, etc.

There's no way to appease everyone, you just have to hope you can appease the masses.

[ScHwErV]

Well, here is the flaw with that argument.

Before the Coffee Shop, we had no complaints and had no one threatening to leave. Now that its here, thats what we have.

ScHwErV

[warriorscot]

What i dont get is who is forcing people to look at the forum, it a sub forum on the site inside the offtopic forum if you dont want to look at it then they dont have to and if they dont like what is said on the forum then they can post there own opinion on it. Maybe you could invite the people who complained to do so. We are having discussions everyone who wants to contribute as long as they arent going to be abusive about it.

And if they dont want to post there opinion who gives them the right to say shut the topic or i will leave, we had a poll on the forum and it was pretty clear that most of the members that voted wanted it to stay.

This isnt just a the site its an online community and if you take away the forum you are undoing the progress towards that end, and while members probably wouldnt leave just because you got rid of it i think it would be a safe assumption they would use the site less, i know i probably would spend less time on it i usually come on help a couple of people and check out anyother forums like the coffee shop, as the time i spend on the site is my free time and i like to get something more out of it than standard toubleshooting and replies(not that that isnt rewarding).