[The Colonel]

Hey y'all. Ain't been here in while. I need some help though.

I have 2 computers atm.

In 1, I have a P4 1.3 GHz, Dell Stock MOBO, ATI Rage 128 Pro, 256 MB RAM, 80 GB Maxtor HD, Windows 2000, 300W PSU, and a 16x CD Burner.

In the other, I have a P4 1.6 GHz, Dell Stock MOBO, GeForce 5700 FX LE, 768 MB RAM, 2x 160 GB Seagate Barracuda, Windows XP, 350W PSU, 52x CD Burner and 26x CD Burner (I believe.)

Obviously i am in need of a new computer. I have an extra HD laying around so I need many parts.
This will be a MAINLY gaming computer.

I have to $1000 but I would like it to be in the $600 range if possible.

Here is my product list. If you have better suggestions please post them. I only have TigerDirect.com prices so far. Please feel free to check other websites. I live in the US.

I want it to be as good as I can get for my budget. Also, do not include this in the budget, but if you find a cheap OEM WinXP it would be well appreciated.

CPU - Athlon 64 3000+ 1.80 GHz Socket 939 ($140) http://www.tigerdire...p?EdpNo=1366603

Motherboard - BioStar TForce 6100 nForce4 PCI-E ($75) http://www.tigerdire...9988&CatId=2017

VideoCard - PNY GeForce 7800 GT 256 MB w/ 600W Ultra-X-Finity PSU ($300) http://www.tigerdire...e...20SLI KIT 1

Case -Ultra WIzard Black ATX Mid-Tower (Free*) http://www.tigerdire...06&Sku=ULT31742

Memory - Ultra PC 3200 1 GB ($80) http://www.tigerdire...20&Sku=ULT31664

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I would look on newegg they are the cheapest of the american sites apparently. Im not going to be looking you out parts, you can do the footwork all the US stores take far to long to load dont know if its a distance thing or if they are just slow sites.

The CPU is good, and overclocks well, i might go with the 3200+, the 3000+ is fine but will need overclocked fo rthe best performance the 3200+ shouldnt need overclocked and if it does not by as much. I dont like the looks of the motherboards i have only heard of biostar mobos mainly in Barebones kits and what i do hear often isnt good(mind you we rarely here any great things about mobos on here). I would go with anything ABIT, MSI, Gigabyte, ASUS, DFI or Saphire i would avoid any others as they arent the big brand names and computer parts especially for gaming need to be quality.

I would go with an X1800xl 256mb they are cheaper or the same price as the 7800GT and out perform them where it counts (they are much better at normal gaming resolutions with the AA and AF on with full effects, the 7800s beat them in raw FPS but no one plays games with cards like that at 1800x1600 with no AA or AF on DX7 mode) also much more efficeint than the 7800s and the vivo features are much better and its nice to get games onto the TV now and again, not to mention watching films.

Memory that looks fine but i would be tempted to go corsair (they are almost always cheaper anyway) corsair are the kings of the DDR world.

The case if its free its good enough, it at least has 120mm fan two is always better but a good 80mm fan should help balance that out, make sure you get a quiet one.

I would definately look inot getting a slightly more powerful cpu otherwise you are going to be limiting the GPU.

What are you going to be doing about a PSU you will need a good one to run a gfx card like the kind you want, nothing less than 480W and a good quality one not a generic.

[warriorscot]

I would look on newegg they are the cheapest of the american sites apparently. Im not going to be looking you out parts, you can do the footwork all the US stores take far to long to load dont know if its a distance thing or if they are just slow sites.

The CPU is good, and overclocks well, i might go with the 3200+, the 3000+ is fine but will need overclocked fo rthe best performance the 3200+ shouldnt need overclocked and if it does not by as much. I dont like the looks of the motherboards i have only heard of biostar mobos mainly in Barebones kits and what i do hear often isnt good(mind you we rarely here any great things about mobos on here). I would go with anything ABIT, MSI, Gigabyte, ASUS, DFI or Saphire i would avoid any others as they arent the big brand names and computer parts especially for gaming need to be quality.

I would go with an X1800xl 256mb they are cheaper or the same price as the 7800GT and out perform them where it counts (they are much better at normal gaming resolutions with the AA and AF on with full effects, the 7800s beat them in raw FPS but no one plays games with cards like that at 1800x1600 with no AA or AF on DX7 mode) also much more efficeint than the 7800s and the vivo features are much better and its nice to get games onto the TV now and again, not to mention watching films.

Memory that looks fine but i would be tempted to go corsair (they are almost always cheaper anyway) corsair are the kings of the DDR world.

The case if its free its good enough, it at least has 120mm fan two is always better but a good 80mm fan should help balance that out, make sure you get a quiet one.

I would definately look inot getting a slightly more powerful cpu otherwise you are going to be limiting the GPU.

What are you going to be doing about a PSU you will need a good one to run a gfx card like the kind you want, nothing less than 480W and a good quality one not a generic.

[The Colonel]

Alright m8. I hear NewEgg is good but if there is any better ( to all you Americans) let me know. I've heard the 7800 GT destroys the X800XL but I'll check. By the way, have you heard about the 6800 GS. I've heard it slightly beats the X800XL but is a little lesser to the 7800 GT. If you know anything, jus post it.THanks for the help and the new topic button wasn't workin that is why it posted 3 times.

Edited by The Colonel, 09 December 2005 - 11:24 AM.

[warriorscot]

The 7800GT beats the x800xl by a long chalk it doesnt beat an X 1800XL though. 6800GS is a good card, new cheap powerful card very good revision of the 6800GT using the latest core revisions from the 7series cards, two of them in SLI will be faster than a 7800GTX 512mb and they dont cost as much either(you do have ot fork out the extra for the SLI mobo though and a bigger than normal PSU).

Yeah ill stick a post in the need a mod forum to get the others closed if no one has done it allready, you could help by changing the name of the others to CLOSE PLEASE.

[The Colonel]

ASUS A8S-X Micro ATX AMD Motherboard ($70) http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131525

Antec SONATA II Piano Black ATX Mid Tower 450Watt ($95) http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811129155

CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR ($72) http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820145440

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice Core Socker 939 2.0 GHz ($166) http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103535



Ok. I have changed somethings up according to your suggestion. The PSU is fine because it is ANtec brand which is very good.

I am still iffy on the video card though. I am going for as little spending that will run newer games such as F.E.A.R well.

Also, I am thinking also about cutting down costs for the price by getting GeForce 7800GT w/ Ultra X-FInity 600W PSU and the free Case. Then, I could get a new SLI board, or a Refurb MSI K8N Neo Platinum nForce 4 SLI. That way, I get SoundBlaster Live! and I can get more power for that day when I find myself needing a little more.

ALso, will this last until July? In July, I will be able to add more power, such as Dual Core and SLI.

Edited by The Colonel, 09 December 2005 - 12:54 PM.

[warriorscot]

Well the MSI board doesnt have soundblaster its AC97 but i havent had any bother with my AC97 im gonna get an xfi when i have the money, not much point getting anything less than an xfi for a soundcard so i would just wait and save up for one.

I wouldnt get a MicroATX mobo as they are more expensive and have less features than the normal ones more often than not. The sonata cases are good but if you are saving money there are lots of other antec cases that are just as good but cheaper or come with the bigger 500W PSUs, but if you cant find any stick with the sonata i was going to get one myself and the noise reduction on it is obviously a big selling point.

When you start getting things cheap or free with something else i worry, its more often than not because they cant be sold individually and if its a 600W PSU you wonder why it cant be sold singly, its probably and older version or one of the ones without SLI support, i would research that component and the deal, also there are better cases i assumed you were getting given it or something, but the lack of a pair of 120mm fans is obvious and you really need them in any system with a powerful gfx card like the one you are after.

SLI isnt all its cracked up to be, not worth the upgrade by the time you can afford it in alot of cases, there are as many changes in things like shader model technology as their is in card speed as time goes buy so the speed is good but you dont get the same pretty effects as a new single card from a newer generation.

Motherboards are tricky to get right you want something with the features you need but not too much money, i would say SLI is something you can drop the cards have to be identical and that can be a pain sometimes especially later on when the company may have gone bust or just dont make the card anymore. And then i prefer the ATI cards myself as a gamer they are better: yes the FPS on the 7800s is often higher but not when you are playing games at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 with AA and AF and all the shader effects etc. maxed out, the X1800xl 256mb at the modes you play games on wins hands down over the 7800GT and at least over here the x1800xl is cheaper and it also has better vivo features like i said. And a biggy for new games the 7800GT cant run both HDR and AA at the same time which is a big let down as all new FPS games coming out are going to be incorporating HDR(and its so cool) but you dont want to run without AA because things just dont look as good without it.

I was going to look out some gfx cards on newegg for you but it isnt loading so im not going to waste any more time on it. Over here also that memory costs about 72 pounds but the XMS stuff with the better guarantee and timings along with the fitted ram sinks cost 84 or something so i would check what the difference is like over there memory is very important in a gaming rig and for a tenner you should get the good stuff.

[The Colonel]

Socket 939 ($82)
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813130491

The platinum is a $20 more for a few more features, so no.

GFX Card choices for me I've picked out some ATI Cards so tell me which would be good for budget.
ATI X1800XL 256 MB $400
POWERCOLOR Radeon X1600XT 256 MB $175
connect3D Radeon X800GTO 256 MB $180

The cheapest XMS is Corsair XMS at 1GB (2x 512MB) is $105

I couldn't find an Antec case with more than a 450W PSU.

Edited by The Colonel, 09 December 2005 - 01:45 PM.

[warriorscot]

Hmm 400 seems alot ive never seen one more expenisve than a 7800GT the most expensive of the x1800xl and 7800GTs i can find are the same price, and the x1800xl on the whole are generally a little cheaper, prices vary globably but we pay tax through the nose here so if anything they should be cheaper over there.
Are you sure you arent getting mixed up with the XT thats the equivalent of the 7800GTX its the X1800 XL you want i would imagine it would be just under 300 dollars if the pricing scheme is the same as it is here.

[The Colonel]

Whoops that was the ATI version. The cheapest I found was $325 for connect3D X1800XL 256 MB. Is it worth the extra $25?

I've gotten several good reviews from the Ultra X-Finity 600W PSU. So now I am wondering, is the X1800XL really a quantam leap over the GeForce 7800GT.

I have the choice of X1800XL and Antec Soprano case w 450W PSU for $420. ORRRR I could get a 7800 GT, reputable 600W PSU (though am still sketchy about PCIe support), CoD2 (free with card), and Case for $300 or for $50 more get a much more beautiful case. I have been an nVidia fan boy at times, but right now I am looking for the better budget deal.

[warriorscot]

That quite expensive for the ATI but prices do vary from place to place here ATI has always had a price advantage but ATI has always been the more European based of the two, Nvidia concentrated much more on the US market so i suppose that would be why they are cheaper. Well as long as the PSU is comaptible i would get that with the 7800GT card it comes with. The x1800 is better but its not hugely massively better ,not quite worth the money if the rest of the stuff that comes with the 7800GT is better.

If they were within 25 bucks it would be no question the x1800 would be better for your rig, but with that price diff the 7800GT would be better, there isnt much between them though the only big gaming disadvantage is the HDR and AA thing on the Nvidea card, i dont know wether that can be fixed with a bios update pr wether the card is stuck with the fault.

[The Colonel]

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP M8!!!

I think I have my product list down.

Tell me what you think, good configuration or terrible, lol.


MSI K8N Neo4-F ATX Socket 939

$82

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice

$167

PNY GeForce 7800 GT 256MB

$300

Ultra X-Finity 600W PSU

Free

Ultra Wizard Mid-T

$20

Corsair ValueSelect 1GB

$80

___________________________________________
Total

$649

[warriorscot]

Looks good to me, especially at that price.
Only possible critiscism left is you might want to invest in slightly better or faster ram to make any overclocking easier.

Edited by warriorscot, 10 December 2005 - 06:30 AM.

[mrdrphil007]

looks pretty good. unless you overclock to like 2.8Ghz, that cpu will be the bottleneck. The good thing about this system is it's future-proof, except for SLi. If its not too late, I would consider the MSI Sli board so you can have 2 7800GTs later on down the road.

socket 939 is great, becuase you can upgrade to sooo many great processors like the FX series or the X2 series. Also, if you do overclock, you're gonna need better cooling than the stock crap that you get with your proc. Zalman, Thermaltake, and Thermalright are all great brands as far as aircooling.

the ram you have listed is okay, but ive heard about games actually getting choppy with it. spend 30 more dollars and get the XMS, which will be better at overclocking than value memory.
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820145450

Ive bought the poster child of XMS (TWINX-3200XLPRO) and its probably the best part of my computer lol.

Nice case
Good PSU
Elite video card
Questionable memory
Okay proc
Okay mobo

seriously think about the Sli mobo, I bought my AN8 right before SLi came out and im really regretting it.

[warriorscot]

There really is only one card made by Nvidia that i would reccomending getting and then putting in SLI later and you arent getting it so i wouldnt bother, they are going to be releasing a new version of SLI to help compete with the emerging crossfire so i wouldnt bother about it.

The memory i would say get the better stuff its not alot more but ive allready said that, i wouldnt bother worrying about the hsf the stock AMD hsf is very good and you can overclock that cpu all the way using it without problem assuming you install it properly which is some peoples problem the just dont install it right and then blame the HSF.

[mrdrphil007]

warriorscot- not trying to sound like a jerk, becuase youve helped me in the past, and are generally the first to respond to my n00bish questions, but you said the stock fan is good for taking the cpu all the way. I dont know about that. I upgraded from the stock fan to a zalman cnps-7000AlCu, not even all copper, and was able to overclock 200Mhz higher than with the stock fan running wide open, and the zalman was less than half as noisy. Idle temps now are 27C. Idle with stock was 43C.

btw, what does this new SLi have to offer, I know that supposedly with the new 80 driver that you could use two different cards, but they have to be made by the same brand. This sounds pretty good, and in my opinion is just as good if not better than crossfire, partly because ATi just cant come up with a stable chipset that supports it. And the 7 series blows the X1000's out of the water as far as frames per second. Not sure about image quality though, which is probably better anyway with ATi.

Again, not trying to get in your face or anything, but im trying to give The Colonel advice on making a wise decision, so he will be happy with his computer.