[Mr. Green]

It seems to me that there has been a large volume of people lately that blatantly disregard the legalities of computers and computer software and they come here and ask for assistance in the matter of breaking these rules, even if there is a more benevolent purpose. I am one who has all the capabilities to burn, rip or swap games, software, enter certain networks but I don’t bring those things up in the forums. Do these people not read the agreement when they sign up? I am sure it is not feasible but it seams people should have to take a test of sorts before they can post, just to make sure they know what people here can and will help them with if they have the know how. Sorry for my rant but it has been bothering me lately. I am a legal man who lives in the legal boundaries of society and believes others should do the same. Have a nice day

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I think it's a societal problem. During the early times of Napster and swapping of copyrighted MP3's most people didn't even know it was a crime. I think most people are now aware that it is, but it's still socially acceptable. People have invested in their computer hardware and Internet access, and somehow that gives them the right to take whatever they want. Despite the efforts of the RIAA, MPAA, etc., it's still very accessible, and pretty easy to get anything you want.

It's now common place for kids in school to circumvent filters through the use if proxies and other methods. Some people are proud to have never paid for broadband because they steal it from their neighbors.

We've followed the lead of the courts. We've never provided support with illegal software or sharing of copyrighted material. When the courts found the P2P software to be illegal (I think Kazaa was first) we stopped supporting it (all P2P software). In most of the world it's illegal to steal someones bandwidth.

We have network administrators on staff here, and it would be irresponsible for us to help someone hack a network, or gain admin privileges. I feel very comfortable with our terms of service, but we can't change the world.

[admin]

I think it's a societal problem. During the early times of Napster and swapping of copyrighted MP3's most people didn't even know it was a crime. I think most people are now aware that it is, but it's still socially acceptable. People have invested in their computer hardware and Internet access, and somehow that gives them the right to take whatever they want. Despite the efforts of the RIAA, MPAA, etc., it's still very accessible, and pretty easy to get anything you want.

It's now common place for kids in school to circumvent filters through the use if proxies and other methods. Some people are proud to have never paid for broadband because they steal it from their neighbors.

We've followed the lead of the courts. We've never provided support with illegal software or sharing of copyrighted material. When the courts found the P2P software to be illegal (I think Kazaa was first) we stopped supporting it (all P2P software). In most of the world it's illegal to steal someones bandwidth.

We have network administrators on staff here, and it would be irresponsible for us to help someone hack a network, or gain admin privileges. I feel very comfortable with our terms of service, but we can't change the world.

[Johanna]

I feel very comfortable with our terms of service, but we can't change the world.

On another forum, after I tactfully explained that it was not legal or ethical to do what the user requested information on, he shot me a PM, "Never mind, I'll just Google it!" Sigh.



Johanna

[Pi rules]

It's now common place for kids in school to circumvent filters through the use if proxies and other methods.

That isn't too common in my school, most of the students there don't know how. If I have time, I might see if I could help our network admin around school, because I would like to learn more networking stuff and stop students from doing things they shouldn't at school.

Some people are proud to have never paid for broadband because they steal it from their neighbors.

That's sad if they 1) do it and 2) are proud of doing it.

Just listening to conversations at school it's amazing to know what a large percentage of students steal music with P2P programs. Something has to be done about that. Every time someone asks me if I do they get a long speech, but I don't think I convinced anyone yet. :nope: The media has a huge effect on many teens, so maybe they should try to do more since they are being ripped off. I've seen anti movie piracy commercials, but none for music or software piracy.

[warriorscot]

doing things they shouldn't at school

man thats what kids do its your job so to speak do it while you still can, i know im settnig a bad example but come on thats a bit sad, we had great fun learning about computers in computing the wrong way and i can tell you we learned alot more, it used to be the teachers could show us how to break and repair and secure networks until the schools secured the networks up the kazbaa so we were encouraged by the "blind eye" effect to go forth and learn ourselves youll find alot dont do anything wrong even if they break through the security the worst that ever happened at my school was someone installed media player classic and hid some music from the admin for listening while coding.

Other notable achievements, changing the wallpapers,breaking teachers passwords to discover what filesharing apps they used(yes teachers were the worst they used the schools massive bandwidth to download at night some could fill that PCs HDD one night empty it to a laptop in the morning then do it again.) switch over to safer and faster internet browsers install new coding apps and packages, disable security to disinfect the machines of malware and get adaware in to clear out the pop ups.

All in all we pretty much did more network admin work than the admin who spent more time repairing old computers and electronics(he had to do all the media stuff as well so VHS players, dvd players and projectors were his too) so we basically did his job forum there were a few of us that were IT support in our various 6th year haunts and we did bypass security and did things we shouldnt but we didnt do them malicously and youll find most students dont they are usually curious(students what else are they) so while ild never help someone learn to break a network at school i wont condemn them cause i did the same thing and had great time doing it.

I had a friendly relationship with the network admin as well he didnt mind because in the end he had less work to do if we fixed the computers first, i even taught him the best ways to disinfect machines what apps work what dont and how to block the teachers file sharing. But i didnt help him block security holes we used for fun(he couldnt do it anyway he didnt have the skills and youll find alot of network admins at schools wont at least from the ones ive known here. Besides few students have the skills or bent to do it and you arent going to stop ones who do no matter how you try because they have the advantage of youth and not alot to do.

Piracy, not surprised its gone on since the begining of media, it usually results from A poor people, B High media costs. You would be surprised how many people use the latest version of photoshop regularly its $600 a pop yet i know a dozen people with it its amaznig, what i do is usually show people the just as good or better open source apps theres rarely a need to pirates software these days, music well its rampant but its also expensive so its to be expected but as young people get older and get there own money they usually switch over to legal download services from what ive seen, or its not p2p they use but simply old fashioned CD lending or in these modern time ipod uploading.

[Aushin]

I don't see a problem with downloading media, myself. I mean, just take a gander at the poverty thread just below this. I sure as [bleep] can't afford to buy CDs...

Edit: Apparently I can't say H-E-double hockey sticks. My apologies

Edited by Aushin, 02 September 2006 - 03:03 PM.

[Pi rules]

Well, if nobody bought CDs and everyone illegally downloaded music then there wouldn't be much music to download because the artists wouldn't work for free.

Besides that, there are many moral and ethical reasons why "downloading media" should not be done whether or not it is illegal. I don't have the money to buy a ton of music, so I just don't buy or "download" it.

[warriorscot]

I know a whole tonne of artists that do just that and they are pretty good. There isnt all that much of a need to download music illegall because alot of artists just want there music heard and offer it for free.

[Aushin]

Morals and ethics are great, but regardless of whether I do or do not download music (or would you prefer I said pirate? seems that way) record labels are going to make millions of dollars and the artists they own are still going to make a bundle doing a dream job.

I guess, morally speaking, I tend to focus my outrage on things that are more...outrageous.

[sarahw]

So, because somebody works hard, and has made lots of money, that justifies you to steal from them? An oil company makes lots of money from selling petrol, that gives you the excuse to steal petrol? That's called theft. The big record companies aren't the only one who feels the pain of your theivery, the ever shrinking number of corner record stores who now just don't have the sales, those artists that have trained since childhood to play a musical instument, your "big compaines" that have "Mom and Dad" shareholders. I buy music, for .88 cents (australian) a song. If poverty prevents you from having .88 cents.... Sell your computer and cancel your internet connection and buy some food. Then again big food compaines make alot these days, go and steal some food. Don't blame poverty for making you steal, get a life.

Edited by sarahw, 03 September 2006 - 04:32 AM.

[Pi rules]

Try thinking about it another way - would you walk into a store and steal a CD? I doubt you would, but if you think about it, that is similar to illegally downloading songs. Some artists do allow their music to be downloaded legally for free to gain popularity, but they usually aren't heard much on large radio stations.

Morals and ethics are great, but regardless of whether I do or do not download music (or would you prefer I said pirate? seems that way) record labels are going to make millions of dollars and the artists they own are still going to make a bundle doing a dream job.

But if nobody bought music, how would the record makers get money to pay the artist?

Aside from the moral implications, think of the economy - the more money used to purchase CDs and music the more money that goes into the economy and to stockholders (which sarahw mentioned).

There are internet (and conventional) radio stations that you can listen to for free legally. I'd recommend searching for some with the music genre you like to listen to.

[SpaceCowboy706]

Sarahw,

Your statement:

The big record companies aren't the only one who feels the pain of your theivery, the ever shrinking number of corner record stores who now just don't have the sales,

I dont believe thats an entirely accurate statement for your argument. I am willing to bet that that the mom-and-pop record stores aren't getting shut down by the P2P programs and individual piracy, but instead by the availabilty of music, by online purchases (where I get mine at). Which just happens to not only affect Music stores, but also your local retailers and municiple tax revenues.


PS...Lets try to to refrain from name calling, such as THIEF. This thread is under the "Serious Discussion" forum and while other opinions may not be your own, they are just that "Other peoples Opinions".

[Aushin]

I'm not defending it as an honorable thing to do. The transfer of a song between two people without money involved just fails to evoke any strong feelings in me. Call me crazy, but I don't think this is a very important issue. The way I see it, the cost of entertainment is just ridiculous to begin with. Maybe THAT's the real issue.

And the problem with the state of the economy (America's at least) isn't the consumer. It's the producer. If there were anything left in the country that were affordable on a working class salary, maybe the P2P boom wouldn't have been so powerful.

[sari]

Taking anything without paying for it eventually drives prices up, as producers/retailers/etc., attempt to recover the revenue they lose from stolen goods. This hurts the consumer in the long run. The same thing holds true for those people who pick out grapes and cherries and such and eat them while they're grocery shopping, or give them to their kids - I've seen it happen many times. It may appear innocent, but if everybody decided to "sample" the food without buying it, prices would go up.

Now, stores do put out free samples, and artists do provide free downloads. Why? To get you do buy their product. They recognize that not everyone who tries a free sample will buy, but they also know that people will be enticed to buy something they may not have otherwise considered. This is considered the cost of doing business. It does not entitle us to take items that are not offered as free samples.

Everytime music is downloaded without paying for it, everytime grapes are eaten and not paid for, there's the possibility that consumer prices will increase to offset the losses. You do yourself no favors, then, by doing this - you're simply helping to drive up the prices that you say are too high to afford to begin with.

[warriorscot]

Well spiralfrog is starting up in a little while its free payed for by advertising. So in fact music prices are going down.

I make a point if i buy music to buy it from a shop cheaper alot of the time and i like having the extras. Small corner shops face alot of difficulties and its not just the record stores that are going its every other non franchise or chain store on the high street so you cant blame p2p for that. Youll find that where markets dont conform to the normal supply and demand people do one of two things steal it or stop using it, and if its easy to steal you get the robin hood affect, if the price is low enough and you dont have any aversions to the transmission medium or market then you find people will pay for things happily but when you increase prices out of the range of what people can afford or think acceptable then you encounter problems.

For the internet generations you see people who are computer literate and have access to how there money is distributed, now when you consider how little goes to artists and how much goes to organisations like the RIAA you see where people want to find alternatives here you see why allofmp3 is popular.