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file and printer sharing - workgroup/domain problems


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#1
makihara

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today i just setup my netgear router to wirelessly transmit the internet.

the setup is pretty much: internet -> cable modem -> router -> main PC -------- dads laptop

-> = some cable
----- = wireless

my dads laptop can connect to this internet fine.
i added a wireless PCI slot to my main PC to also connect to the router when i move the PC away from the cable modem.

(first a very basic question: to allow for file and printer sharing between the main PC and the laptop am i right in thinking that the PC needs some means of wireless communiocations via the PCI card. Of course it does. :whistling: but just some confirmation is what i'm looking for)

so i used network setup wizard on my main PC and created the workgroup name and some shared folders etc.

i then go to my dads laptop and there is NO network setup wizard??
after an hour of web searching i found that its because he's on a domain under "system-> computer name". And that changing to a work group needs to be done. any problems with that??

there are three simple objectives:

ability for my dads laptop to access a folder on my PC
ability for my dads laptop to print on my printer
all the while he obviously needs to be able to go into work and not have any problems with domain access.

so the key question is...if i configure the laptop with the workgroup name that matches with my main PC he'll be able to access my folders but will he be able to use the domain acess still.

i don't really know how domains work but i'm pretty sure its associated with work so thats more important. WOuld it be the case of switching from domain to workgroup depending if hes at home or work??

One last thing. Under network places and "view workgroup computers" on my main PC
at one time i could find my dads laptop computer domain name. Now i've turned off file sharing and unshared stuff only my workgroup exists.


any help would be great with this
thanks in advance
makihara

EDIT -> P.S. i have another post in this forum section. Since it's a different issue i though it'd be ok to start this new one.

Edited by makihara, 24 May 2006 - 07:06 AM.

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#2
dsenette

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(first a very basic question: to allow for file and printer sharing between the main PC and the laptop am i right in thinking that the PC needs some means of wireless communiocations via the PCI card. Of course it does. but just some confirmation is what i'm looking for)

well...you have to be connected to the network...doesn't have to be wirelessly...if the desktop is hardwired to the router it will work the same as wireless (actually it will be more stable and faster...but...let's say it will work the same)

then go to my dads laptop and there is NO network setup wizard??
after an hour of web searching i found that its because he's on a domain under "system-> computer name". And that changing to a work group needs to be done. any problems with that??

do either you or your dad know why his laptop is on a domain? if it's because this is his work laptop...then DO NOT try to unjoin it from the domain
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#3
makihara

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first repsonse:

so a printer and folder can be placed on the network by the router. I thought the router just controlled internet porjection?

second response:

yes its for work. THe domain anme is the company name.
i can't remove it form the domain anyway as it needs a password.


thanks for the speedy response
makihara
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#4
dsenette

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first repsonse:

so a printer and folder can be placed on the network by the router. I thought the router just controlled internet porjection?

for file/folder sharing the computer that is hosting the files HAS to be connected to the network and it has to be on...now...whether the machine is connected to th e network wirelessly or wired...is irrelevant..as long as it's connected to the network... (connected to the network means...connected to the router...as it's controlling the connectivity of your network) (side note...if you have a NAS "network attached storage" system...which is basically a hard drive with a network card...then you can share files without a computer being on to share them from)

as for printer sharing...there are a couple of options...you can get a network printer...or a print server...the first is a printer with a network card..the second is a device that you plug your printer into..then plug into your router...does the same thing as having the network card built into the printer....OR you install the printer locally on one machine on the network....then install it as a network printer from the other machine...

now...here's the issue...you CANNOT unjoin your dad's computer from the domain...not gonna happen...and you CANNOT join your computer to his domain...so your workgroup isn't gonna work....so here's what i would suggest to get both machine's happy

you can get a nice NAS drive for like...200 bucks (200 or 300 gb of storage...pretty sweet) and hook that up to your router and set it up correctly....then y ou can get a print server (linksys makes one for under 100 i think...) and hook up a printer to it...and hook it to the router...now you don't need to be on the same workgroup/domain to access t he stuff...as that's all controlled by ip
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#5
makihara

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i got confused...

i thought a wireless network was completely seperate form the router and that the pc and laptop communicated through each other whether a router was setup or not.


anyway i remembered reading a post a while ago about NAS and to my surprise when i found the topic it was you who was involved: http://www.geekstogo...howtopic=112888

so i was wondering if you could sort of give some advice about such similar items.

first off i don't need 300GB. i mean since my 100gb internal hard drive died on me i've managed (just about) to survive with a 40GB one (all i could afford).

i mean 100gb is like the absolute maximum i need.

so going back to the post i quoted, that person found this one within the amazon.co.uk page of:
http://www.amazon.co...6602163-3968457

could you help me at all by clearing up a couple of things about this device.

1.as far as i'm aware you'd connect this device to the router via ethernet cable. the router would then broadcast the folders to be recieved by those with wireless capabilities. a printer would then connect to the device (called a buffalo linkstation) and then the printer could be accessed by any computer via the router via the device.

2.considering my situation (regarding domain/workgroup) i should be able to easily connect to the storage without any problems from both laptop and PC.

3. will the speeds achieved relate to the router and PCs PCI card/laptop wi-fi, oh and the cable connecting device to router.

4. in the description it says: "Offering a built-in print server, the LinkStation simplifies network printing"
does that sound like the right thing for what i'm after - netowrk printing accessible from a laptop on a domain.

5. how safe do you reckon it is. SInce it runs through my router i'm assuming that the only pcs able to connect to the storage and print files will be those with the right WEP key and right MAC address.

6. shot in the dark but i already have external storage. Ever heard of a way to turn that into network storage?

EDIT

i don't understand the price either. i mean that ones at £100 (rouglhy $180) and then this other one on amazon at pretty much similar specs:
http://www.amazon.co...5Fencoding=UTF8
is £236 (roughly $400). any clue on differences


thanks for all your help
james

Edited by makihara, 24 May 2006 - 10:08 AM.

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#6
dsenette

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wow...ok...uh...let me see if i can answer all of this...

first...what most people have a problem understanding is the fact that "wireless" is not "the wireless internet"....a wireless connection (facilitated by a wireless network card and wireless access point of some kind) is the EXACT same thing as using an ethernet cable (it's not EXACT...but you get the idea)....wireless is a method of using a different transfer medium...CAT5 cable is a transfer medium (as is all CAT cable) Coaxial cable (the kind you use for your tv) is a transfer medium, Fibre optic cable is a transfer medium....wireless uses the transfer medium of radio waves (technically it uses the transfer medium of air...but we're not going into that...electromagnetic dynamics sucks) so in essence...when you connect to a wireless network..you're doing nothing different than plugging in an ethernet cable...the only difference is there's no copper involved...just radio waves....

that said...

all transmission media have to have something to transmit to...and from...what are we sending from...obviously your computer...what are we sending to...well that depends... in a network setup with a router most people assume they are sending information directly to another computer...not so...you're sending packets to the router who in turn ROUTES (wonder why they call them routers?) that packet to the proper location...routers are designed to facilitate the transfer of data across dissimilar networks (the internet..is indeed the largest public network available) so...your broadband modem (cable or dsl...doesn't matter) gets an ip address from your ISP (that ip address talks to one of their routers and does the same as your router...but let's not go too far)...IF you were to plug that modem directly into your computer...the modem would give your computer an ip address within the same range as it's ip address effectively making your computer and your isp's router on the same logical network...sweet no need for a router on your end...BUT when you're connectiong multiple machines to that SAME modem...you've got an issue...#1 the modem only has one ethernet port so how are you gonna hook more computers up? #2 your isp only let's you have one ip address so how in the world could you hook up more computers? the answer...a router..the router (in a home setup) will now aquire IT's main ip address from your modem (just like the pc would have) so the isp thinks there's only one computer attatched...THEN on the interfaces where you hook up your computers (wireless or wired) it assigns each computer attached an ip address in a different range...thereby making 2 seperate logical networks...

here's where the routing comes in

for file sharing (same with printing...so we'll just do file sharing) when y ou open up the network and access another computer to get a file...you're sending a packet across the network...that packet is addressed to the other computer on the network (just like mailing a letter) well that packet goes across the cable (or radio waves) and get's to the router...the router checks the address (hmm..this letter is for bob smith...what do i do?) and then checks it's routing table (don't worry about that...just know it exists)..then once it knows where to send the packet...it ships it over to the proper computer (ah...bob smith lives over on elm..i'll bring this to him)...NOW if that packet is destined for the internet...the router TECHNICALLY doesn't know what to do with it...but by default the router knows that any packets that it doesn't know the address for should be sent on to it's partner router (your modem and then on to the isp router) because surely he knows what to do with it...then the isp router sends it where it goes (of course...there's alot more to this and there are alot more router's involved but...i don't have all day and neither do you)....so..IN THE LONGEST WAY possible..no...a wireless network is NOT completely seperate form the router...unless by chance you set up an ad-hoc network...because then i just wasted some brainpower

so now to the rest of the questions


1.as far as i'm aware you'd connect this device to the router via ethernet cable. the router would then broadcast the folders to be recieved by those with wireless capabilities. a printer would then connect to the device (called a buffalo linkstation) and then the printer could be accessed by any computer via the router via the device.

(to my knowledge) when you set up the NAS device (the shared hard drive) you will have the ability (read the manual when you get it) to either assign the thing a static ip (best option) or a dynamic one...then you would (should) be able to see it on your network as if it were a seperate computer...then access the files on it..(all of this will be in the manual)...the same goes for a print server you can either set up a static ip (best option...almost neccessary without setting up a workgroup) or a dynamic one...then you'll be able to set it up (we can help with that too when the time comes)

2.considering my situation (regarding domain/workgroup) i should be able to easily connect to the storage without any problems from both laptop and PC.

SHOULD...can't make any promises...but as long as you follow the manual you should be fine (they're pretty easy)

3. will the speeds achieved relate to the router and PCs PCI card/laptop wi-fi, oh and the cable connecting device to router.

yes...your wireless will connect at a max of 54(i think 54)Mbps (megabits per second) where as with the wired connection you would get either 10Mbps 100Mbps or 1000Mbps(depending on your router and ethernet card of the computer or device that is hardwired to it) most ethernet devices now are 100Mbps connections

4. in the description it says: "Offering a built-in print server, the LinkStation simplifies network printing"
does that sound like the right thing for what i'm after - netowrk printing accessible from a laptop on a domain.

yes...because then you just need to get one device instead of two

5. how safe do you reckon it is. SInce it runs through my router i'm assuming that the only pcs able to connect to the storage and print files will be those with the right WEP key and right MAC address.

if they can't connect to your network...then they can't access the device..

6. shot in the dark but i already have external storage. Ever heard of a way to turn that into network storage?

i have heard tell of it's existance...but i haven't found any(haven't really looked) they work like external hard drive enclosures...basically it's the same as the other NAS sollutions...it would just come without a HD in it..

EDIT

i don't understand the price either. i mean that ones at £100 (rouglhy $180) and then this other one on amazon at pretty much similar specs:
http://www.amazon.co...5Fencoding=UTF8
is £236 (roughly $400). any clue on differences

haven't looked at either device yet (been typing for a while)...so i'm not sure..i'll look
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#7
dsenette

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http://www.buffalote...1&categoryid=16 this one (which i think is the first one you linked to just on the buffalo website) looks nice..it's the one with the print server isntalled it's either 10mbps or 100mbps on the ethernet port (which means if your router has a 100mbps ethernet port then it will transfer at 100mbps otherwise it will go at 10) you can add another HD to it if you ever need it bigger...they're little network diagram is nice...though you could easily replace the wireless part with a wire..
now the only issue i COULD see with it is that the printer interfaces are USB so if you don't have a USB printer you'd need to either rethink this or see if there's such a thing as parralell to usb converters (there might be...haven't looked)
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#8
makihara

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wow that was amazing. can't thankyou enough.

i realised now what stupid mistakes i've fallen into.

i think the best part was how i found your explanation quite funny..... just send it to the ISP, he'll know what to do with it. awesome.

things are all slotting into place now. i remember wanting to be able to plug my ethernet cable into two seperate PCs at different times and someone telling me i have to release the ips because an ISP allows one only for some obvious reason i'm sure.

so i know its not much but i made a £5 donation to wwf to say cheers

i can see you put a lot of effort into helping me

so really thanks a lot. If you ever need help with field hockey, Japanese culture or Biology then feel free to ask :whistling:

i'll see you around.
cheers
james harper
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#9
dsenette

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Japanese culture

i've got enough of that on a daily basis thank you very much (work for the japanese...they're always cold..i'm always hot...we fight over the thermostat)
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#10
makihara

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i hope i find it easier when i go there.

in 14 weeks i'll be starting my 6 months in Nagoya.

i'll hopefully get passed the heat issues.


makihara
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#11
dsenette

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they boil me to death...but i'm still waiting for the day they send me over there for a week...i've always wanted to go to japan...always..
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#12
makihara

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same here and for a lot of techy people i think.

i've never been so excited.

i'm really lucky especially since i'm only 17, completing the dream i've had for about 8 years then coming back and starting a new dream by studying medicine.

i have one final hurdle....exams in 3 weeks. the problem is i'm so excited i can't get down to it and as every day goes by i feel a greater possibility that i may regret how i've been spending the last few weeks.

anyway i hope one day you go to japan.
the biggest stumbling block is flights really. i got mine on a deal with a GAP year company for about £500 ($870). flights should be coming down in the next few years anyway. you're much closer to japan as well.

seriously you should do it. i know it's overused but life is too short.

all the best
james
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#13
dsenette

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oh..if i go to japan..i don't have to pay for it hehehe
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#14
makihara

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but like wise japanese man once said

"if you wait for dream that is free, your dream you may not see"
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#15
dsenette

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hehe of course
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