[Webslinger64]

srry i was away for a day, i didn't get to look at your questions. Looks like makai pretty much has things under control, so goodluck with everything!

Cheers
ROIDO

No worries ROIDO. I appreciate your follow up on this thread.

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It really appears your board can support HT, although it would need a bios upgrade... which is probably why you don't see anything to do with HT in your current bios. The bios is up to P17 and looking at the bios screen menu dictionary (Intel has a wealth of info!) it looks like the HT enable/disable is in the Main menu options of bios.

Well this is the direction I want to head for sure. If I'm going to do anything, I would like to get the Intel Pentium 4 3.06 GHz HT 533 MHz/512 KB. Looks like there's a few available on ebay right now.

I did d/l the BIOS Settings Dictionary - By Menu and reviewed some of that information. I can change the Bios settings myself (seems easy enough).

I normally NEVER recommend updating the Bios, unless there is a valid reason. In your case, this is a good reason to do so. However, you have to be warned that a failed update can/will KILL THE BOARD! A lot of people update bios without a second thought... I always think twice!

Question here...when changing the Bios settings for HT from disable to enable, do I need to first upgrade the Bios then make that change, or does it matter?

[Webslinger64]

It really appears your board can support HT, although it would need a bios upgrade... which is probably why you don't see anything to do with HT in your current bios. The bios is up to P17 and looking at the bios screen menu dictionary (Intel has a wealth of info!) it looks like the HT enable/disable is in the Main menu options of bios.

Well this is the direction I want to head for sure. If I'm going to do anything, I would like to get the Intel Pentium 4 3.06 GHz HT 533 MHz/512 KB. Looks like there's a few available on ebay right now.

I did d/l the BIOS Settings Dictionary - By Menu and reviewed some of that information. I can change the Bios settings myself (seems easy enough).

I normally NEVER recommend updating the Bios, unless there is a valid reason. In your case, this is a good reason to do so. However, you have to be warned that a failed update can/will KILL THE BOARD! A lot of people update bios without a second thought... I always think twice!

Question here...when changing the Bios settings for HT from disable to enable, do I need to first upgrade the Bios then make that change, or does it matter?

[makai]

If I'm going to do anything, I would like to get the Intel Pentium 4 3.06 GHz HT 533 MHz/512 KB. Looks like there's a few available on ebay right now.

I've always had good luck on ebay with processors. In fact I've never gotten a bad one yet (knock on wood!) Just make sure the seller has good positive feedback.

Question here...when changing the Bios settings for HT from disable to enable, do I need to first upgrade the Bios then make that change, or does it matter?

According to what you posted, you have bios P15. But when I asked you to check through the bios screens, you said you couldn't find anything to do with Hyperthreading. Now that you know the setting is on the Main Menu screen... does your bios already show the capability of enabling/disabling HT? If it already does, then you DO NOT have to upgrade your bios. Please clarify if your P15 bios has the capability.


Jumping ahead...
If you've never installed a processor, I highly recommend you purchase some Artic Silver 5 thermal compound. Newegg sells it, or you should be able to find it locally at a computer store somewhere. Thermal compounds normally used and shipped with processors or heatsinks, do not transfer heat to the heatsink as well as AS5. HERE'S the link to instructions for AS5. One thing to add to the installation instructions... Put a very small amount on the heatsink, in the area that would contact the CPU, and rub it in. Heatsinks, while they appear flat, are not. There are small uneven surfaces and the idea is to fill the uneveness with AS5. The amount to fill with is very little, in fact so little that it will appear that the AS5 is gone. There should only be a grey color tone left on the heatsink after you're all done. Also, while the instructions show a circle, I normally cover the entire CPU heatsink... but don't get any AS5 in the hole or cover the hole with AS5.

There are videos on youtube that show people applying AS5, and while some are archaic, they might give you some ideas. THIS is a BAD demonstration... way too much AS5... and he even covered the hole! Lastly, if you ever have to clean off a CPU or heatsink, do not use standard household rubbing alcohol. This type of alcohol is 90% water! Purchase some Isopropyl Alcohol used for electronics which is ~>1% water... and use only enough to clean whatever you're cleaning.


EDITED...
The same seller (100% feedback) I linked for the 2.8ghz processor has a few 3.06 CPUs. These are bare... so you would have to buy a heatsink/fan. I have no user experience with the 30 cap version but there is a link on the seller's page where you can read about it.

Edited by makai, 19 December 2008 - 05:18 AM.

[Webslinger64]

According to what you posted, you have bios P15. But when I asked you to check through the bios screens, you said you couldn't find anything to do with Hyperthreading. Now that you know the setting is on the Main Menu screen... does your bios already show the capability of enabling/disabling HT? If it already does, then you DO NOT have to upgrade your bios. Please clarify if your P15 bios has the capability.

A little confusion here. When I try to access the Bios Setup program by pushing F2, I am getting instead the Bios Setup Utility (I am not sure if they are one in the same). On my other thread for reformatting the HD/reinstalling Windows XP, you had me access the same utility by pushing the 'delete' button as the PC rebooted.

So, at the Bios Setup Utility that I am seeing now, the menu's are as follows:

Main, Advanced, Security, Power, Boot, Exit

On the Bios Settings Dictionary/Glossary .PDF you had me d/l it shows the menu as follows:

Maintenance, Manageability, Main, Advanced, Security, Power, Boot, Intel ME, Exit

There are several more menu options per the .PDF instructions than what I am seeing on my Bios Setup Utility. Now the instructions also indicate the following:

"The presence of menus and BIOS settings are dependent on your board model, hardware components
installed, and the BIOS version. BIOS menu titles may differ."

Under the Main menu of my Bios Setup Utility it lists the following:

BIOS Version
Processor Type
Processor Speed
System Bus Speed System Memory Speed
Cache RAM
Total Memory
Memory Bank 0
Memory Bank 1
Language
System Time
System Date

I can toggle with the up/down arrows between Language, System Time and System Date. Nothing in the Main menu here indicates anything regarding Hyper-Threading. Next to BIOS Version it only shows RG84510A.86A.0022.P12 (so I believe my Bios would be P12)
So I cannot help but wonder if the Bios Setup program is different from the Bios Setup Utility.

The .PDF instructions say I need to push F2 after the Power-On Self-Test (POST) memory test begins and before the operating system boot begins. I believe they are talking about the screen that shows my RAM test and recognition of things like my keyboard and mouse. On this PC I am not able to see the POST memory test in action. When I reboot, it just shows a large screen for Intel Pentium 4 (blue and white screen) then it immediately goes to the startup screen for Windows XP. On my old PC, I could see the POST memory test. Not sure why I can't see it on this PC.

Thoughts?

[makai]

Sheesh!!!! LOL!!!

Oh well... if it wasn't difficult, it wouldn't be this much fun!!!

Ok, I'm done laughing now! NOT!!!!

Well.... research surely has borne strange fruit! Leaves you to wonder what to believe!

On my other thread for reformatting the HD/reinstalling Windows XP, you had me access the same utility by pushing the 'delete' button as the PC rebooted.
.
.<snip>
.
So I cannot help but wonder if the Bios Setup program is different from the Bios Setup Utility.

Different manufactures use different keys to get into Bios screens. The Delete key is used by a lot of consumer boards like Abit, Asus, etc... while F1, F2, and F10 are usually used by OEM manufactures like Dell, IBM, Compaq, and I guess Intel too. Not to worry, there should be only one bios setup/program... although sometimes hitting F12 will bring up the boot device select menu, which is also a bios governed screen.
The menus you see in your bios versus the PDF menus may be different because of the bios version. I'm only guessing here as I have no actual experience with your motherboard.

The .PDF instructions say I need to push F2 after the Power-On Self-Test (POST) memory test begins and before the operating system boot begins. I believe they are talking about the screen that shows my RAM test and recognition of things like my keyboard and mouse. On this PC I am not able to see the POST memory test in action. When I reboot, it just shows a large screen for Intel Pentium 4 (blue and white screen) then it immediately goes to the startup screen for Windows XP. On my old PC, I could see the POST memory test. Not sure why I can't see it on this PC.

On some motherboards, the splash screen can be disabled in bios. On many OEM computers, the splash screen is shown in lieu of the post information so there may be a setting in bios you can change.

Next to BIOS Version it only shows RG84510A.86A.0022.P12 (so I believe my Bios would be P12)

I got the P15 bios number from your post #3 in this thread. The number Windows is indicating for your bios, (RG84510A.86A.0028.P15.0302260937, 2/26/2003), matches perfectly with Intel's Bios release notes for P15 bios, found on the latest Bios page. That is... IF... this is actually the correct bios page for your board, which I think it is... which I think it is! (I'm fairly sure I can still read, so I'm for sure, fairly sure it is... I think!)

In any case, it sure is fun chasing my butt around! LOL!!!

That said, here's another page I found where you can download a few utilities to check/identify your motherboard and even check if it's HT ready. The "Hyper-Threading Technology Test Utility for Windows*" (I don't know what the asterick means), will check three things when you run the test. I won't explain what those three things are as there is a "More information - test results" link at the bottom of the page under heading Installation & use that explains every step. Quite interesting actually!

All indications and research we've done so far indicates your motherboard supports HT. I JUST CAN'T FIND ANY PROOF!!! LOL!!!

We will eventually sort this out!
or....
NOT!!!

EDITED...

Ok... I couldn't stand it anymore... I called Intel to ask if your motherboard supported HT!

Tech support guided me to through the exact pages I've already been through and we ended up on the page that lists the CPU's your motherboard supports... the page that has the speeds listed, but no part numbers. The tech then continued to tell me that the CPUs listed in the table had no part numbers, and that's why the table shows only speeds and no part numbers. I told him, what do you mean these CPUs have no part numbers? He then said that these CPU's didn't have part numbers and that they were just called/sold by the speed of the CPU. I DON'T THINK SO!!!

He then told me that P4's with 478 pins, 533Mhz bus speed, did not support HT! I told him... What??? Are you sure??? He was adamant about it! It was like... "take my word for it, I'm tech support, so I know what I'm talking about". He even went so far as to state that HT had nothing to do with the chipset on the motherboard! I DON'T THINK SO!!!

Well, it just so happened that I didn't have all my Intel webpages open while I was speaking to him, so I just sat there on the phone, dumbfounded, and took the abuse! I felt weak!

I really, really... really, really... regret that I didn't have THIS PAGE open while I was talking to him. I would love to have heard him try to back out of his BS! Talk about poor tech support!!!

Edited by makai, 19 December 2008 - 04:42 PM.

[Webslinger64]

You're right on the Bios version, P15 was what I posted earlier.

I tried the support link you posted for the HT utility tool d/l. It didn't work. The link took me to a page that my browser couldn't access at the time. I'll wait till later this evening and try again.

There is no surrender here brutha, as long as you're willing to hash through this with me, I'm in it for the long haul.

Edited by konakula29er, 19 December 2008 - 04:42 PM.

[makai]

I edited my post! Read it!

Edited by makai, 19 December 2008 - 05:02 PM.

[Webslinger64]

I edited my post! Read it!

You know, I have no idea what your life was like before you met me here at GTG, but it appears to have become more adventurous since then, and to tell you the truth, I don't mind taking the credit for that

Actually, I feel terrible that you're committing so much of your time and energy on my behalf for this stuff. I apologize for that. I wish I knew a lot more so I wouldn't have to be hand-held through the process. You're help has been greatly appreciated.

Now, since the "Tech" at Intel obviously had his finger up his (_/_) and doesn't seem to know jack about our issue here, I once again with all my heart and soul trust your knowledge and tech savvy ability Can I be anymore clear on that matter?

I'm outta here for a little X-mas shopping - why I'm going to subject myself to an hour at Hel-Mart, I mean Wal-Mart, I'll never know, but when the wife says "jump", I say "how high", "how far" and "how many times". I'll check your link when I return.

Hang Loose Brah!

P.S. OK, so I quickly went to the link you provided to try the Hyper-Threading Utility Tool again and I was able to d/l it. However, when I went to run the program I got the following message:

"The verification tool is not supported on this operating system"

Just one more friggin' (no cursing allowed) moment

Edited by konakula29er, 19 December 2008 - 05:35 PM.

[makai]

Hmmm... how can I say this....

While I appreciate all the great comments... CAN YOU PLEASE GET RID OF THOSE BOWING THINGYS!!! They're embarrasing me!!!

Actually, I feel terrible that you're committing so much of your time and energy on my behalf for this stuff. I apologize for that.

No need to worry about it. Computers (electronics) are actually a "hobby" for me. I repair and build things for fun! I also repair laptops and ipods for fun... then I give them away to my daughter's friends... uhhh, just the ipods. There are only a few people I give laptops to! You know, it's no problem helping anyone on-line because if I just want to disappear, I can! However there are certain people you meet on GTG that you cannot help but support till the very end. If you were totally helpless, this would not be a challenge... it would be a chore! A lot of people that come here actually don't know anything about anything about computers, so they "expect" you to lead them around. I won't do that. If the person is willing to learn and participate, then I become relentless in helping them fix their problem!

That said... I don't need anymore comments or bowing thingys to embarrass me! A simple thank you, if we are ever successful, will suffice!

"The verification tool is not supported on this operating system"

This must be related to you running SP3. I ran the tool on my system (SP2) before I posted the link and it ran fine. This is the latest version of this tool so I have to guess it must be SP3. If you haven't done anything with the other identical system, try running it on there to see if it will run.

Just one more friggin' (no cursing allowed) moment headscratch.gif

Naturally... did you expect otherwise!

So I guess you have to decide something. If you can't get the utility to test the board... then what's next???

To me, it looks like we have no choice but to update the bios to the latest version to see if HT will show up in one of the menus. As I stated before, a failed update will almost certainly kill the motherboard, so I have to leave this decision up to you. I personally have never had a bios update fail on me. However, I know people who've experienced it, and while there are ways to recover, most end up sending the board back to the manufacture or ordering a new bios chip. Your bios chip is socketed, so Intel could probably send you a new one.

The other option is to just buy a 3.06 CPU and run it. Even if you board doesn't support HT, I'm positive a CPU that "supports" HT will still run on your board. To me $79/free shipping is a good price, but again, the decision is yours.

[Webslinger64]

OK, so I went overboard with the bowing emoticons. Too much of a good thing can sour the recipe. A simple thank you works for me too.

I still have one PC left to reformat and reinstall Windows XP. Once I do that the OS will be SP2. I can then run the utility tool to get the information we need. That may be a week away or so cause of Christmas. Starting tomorrow, I'll be running around like a madman taking care of way to many things and trying to please way to many people. If you don't mind a brief lull in our project here, we can pick it back up at a later date. However, I will work on the reformat and installation for this PC bit by bit.

I'll post to this thread once I've completed that project and we can pick it up again from there. I may just purchase the CPU from ebay anyway. That way I'll have it in hand once we know for sure what can be done. Sounds like it will work very well either way.

If I don't get back soon, enjoy your holiday!

[makai]

Sounds like a plan!

Mele Kaliki Maka O Haoli Makahiki Ho!

[stettybet0]

Sorry to interrupt, but I just thought that you might want to know that your motherboard supports hyper-threading. The hyper-threading option only shows up in the BIOS if a CPU supporting hyper-threading is installed, so that's why you aren't seeing it currently.

Just a few little things:

Don't use Arctic Silver 5. It's electrically conductive, so dropping a bit on your motherboard can short circuit it. It doesn't even perform as well as newer, non-electrically conductive thermal pastes, such as OCZ Freeze and Arctic Cooling MX-2, so there's really no reason to use it.

In the US, isopropyl rubbing alcohol must be at least 68% pure isopropyl alcohol to be called isopropyl rubbing alcohol. Thus, the claim that it is "90% water" is inaccurate. While 99% isopropyl alcohol, or something like ArctiClean, is more desirable, isopropyl rubbing alcohol can be used as well, as long as you make sure it dries completely before plugging in the computer. In fact, you could even use pure water as long as you make sure it dries. (Strongly not recommended, of course...)

[makai]

No need to appologize... I'm glad you pointed out the HT information. This thread can move forward.

As far as OCZ and MX-2, I've never heard of them. Admittantly, my 12 gram tube of AS5 has lasted over 3 years, so there was never a need for me to research newer thermals.

The 90% alchohol was a misquoted fact. I have no idea where I got that, but in any case, I woudn't use it. Luckily, I have a chemist friend who gets me pints of CMS Isopropyl Alcohol which is basically pure (.01% H2O).

It's funny you mentioned AS5 as being electrically conductive. I did a test in a Radar lab on AS5 some years ago to see if it truly wasn't conductive. Engineers never believe when something containing silver will not conduct electricity, so we ran 12 volts across a line of AS5. It's like the manufactures states... it's capacitive, but it's not conductive. We drew no current.

Still, I just read a review on OCZ and MX-2 and Arctic 5, and it appears that both of these are thermally better than AS5, although 2 degrees could have come from anywhere (like application). However, after I use up my tube, in maybe another year, I might try one of them!

Thanks for the info!

[Webslinger64]

Just extending thread till I can get to it.

[Webslinger64]

Just extending thread till I can get to it.

And again!