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I'm thinking of building another pc


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#31
Denisejm

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Thanks again for your help, Pedro.

Now that you are getting closer, I'll let the guy who was originally helping you sort out what other parts you can use. Now that you understand a RAID card can do JBOD. This open s up your Motherboard search MUCHHH more widely. Now you can look for the most stable motherboard and raid cards for what you want to do.

I hope you can help me with these, James, if you have the time. I checked back in this thread and found the converter that you mentioned, so I have two to choose from.

I think $600.00 should be enough money for a really good motherboard What do you think?
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#32
skyhintack

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$600 is more than enough for a good motherboard. It will probably cost you more than $100 but less than $600, so you should be set for that.
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#33
PedroDaGR8

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Heck yeah, you could easily get a great stable mobo and a good used raid card for $600. Though lets see what James recommends.
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#34
Denisejm

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skyhintack . . . you hit the nail right on the head with your picture and what it says, LOL!
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#35
Denisejm

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Heck yeah, you could easily get a great stable mobo and a good used raid card for $600. Though lets see what James recommends.

No used parts, refurbished or otherwise. I went that route once and had to RMA the part 3 times. Brand new only. I'll have another $500 on Friday so I can get the motherboard and a couple of other parts this week. I'll be charging the parts and then paying what I spent when I get the money each Friday. Most places don't take echecks and, if they do, they won't ship the part for a couple of weeks.
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#36
james_8970

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Hmm, didn't get a e-mail notification for this thread yesterday......

Yeah that's a big case, it's what I was going to buy originally, but eventually decided on getting a Silverstone TJ07-BW due to my watercooling needs. Once I stop watercooling, I'm going to give that case a serious consideration again. Just a heads up, the box the case goes in will be massive, I'm not joking when I say that you will likely be able to fit 4-6 of your existing cases into your new cases box. Trust me, you'll laugh the first time you see the box, I know I did when I got my case.

Aside from storing data on this computer, is there anything else you plan on doing with it? At this point, my best recommendation is to get a 200$ motherboard and then a cheap expansion card for additional SATA ports and forget about JBOD. While JBOD is still an option, getting something for it is too cost prohibitive at this point considering the amount of drives you wish to put together. You could use 3 cheap 'RAID' cards, but windows would be showing three different drives. If you wanted to find a single card to do what you're attempting to do, you might as well just make a RAID5/6 configuration considering you'll be spending $800+ on the card alone, and then if you got a RAID configuration, it's always good to have a UPS, BBU (battery back up) or both.

Assuming you don't plan on gaming and don't do many CPU intensive tasks, I suggest the build below. While you could simply get a motherboard, you're current build is far to dated and I doubt you'd be able to successfully make it into a file server. If you want to make the build below any cheaper, your only real option is to get a cheaper CPU as I cannot make anything else cheaper without making large sacrifices.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131297 -200
If anyone can find a board with more SATA boards for a similar price point, say something. This is the only one that I know of, off the top of my hand and after a quick search.
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820146726 - 55
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819115037 -165
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827129032 -27
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16816124008 -40
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16816124008 - 39 (Ignore the newegg reviews, see my comment below.)
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812119231 - 1.29 x 10 = $13
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812608228 - $5 x 2 = $10
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814121286 - 70
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139005 - 100
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16832116485 -105

That 'RAID' card has bad reviews because people are trying RAID5 on a $50 card. Not only is that a bad idea because it's software RAID (calculations performed on the CPU), but it uses the PCI interface which will dramatically reduce the speeds that could be experienced with their setup, had they purchased a more expensive card. Essentially what it comes down to is that they have a champagne taste (or expectation in this case) on a beer budget. For your uses, it'll be sufficient, but will be slower then using SATA ports on a motherboard because PCI has a maximum transfer rate of ~130mb/s. I suggest you place your "back-up" drives on this expansion card and then attach the drives that'll be accessed frequently to the motherboard's SATA ports. The card may be a bit of a challenge to set up as it appears that there lacks sufficient instructions, but every card in this price range seems to be faulted by that problem.
James

Edited by james_8970, 20 January 2009 - 01:51 PM.

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#37
Denisejm

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Hi James . . . welcome back!

This is going to be a complete new build. I won't be adding anything to my present pc and I'm not thinking about taking parts from it to make a new pc, except for the DVD drive, a BenQ DW1655 that I installed about a year ago, so that will save me some money.

I know that you're trying to save me money but I have about $1,900 more that I can spend, and I already purchased the main drive that I'll be using. It's a Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.co...;Tpk=WD1001FALS

and I already purchased the case. :)

and I have a DVD drive

and I have a Windows XP Pro x64 disk so I won't have to purchase a Windows disk.

I have $600 set aside for the motherboard so be free to look at the more expensive ones.


I use my computer to store and watch videos. As I mentioned in a previous post, about 99% of my storage contains videos. I watch them a lot and I burn very rarely, usually just for my grandson so he won't ruin the originals.


Because I use my computer mainly for videos, one of the requirments that I would want of a motherboard is an excellent video card or a port to install an excellent video card. I looked at the motherboard at the link you provided and I read a review at
http://www.bit-tech....5-has-arrived/1
One point about the board struck me

here we have the very last mainstream chipset that will use the antiquated front side bus.

I don't know what a bus is but if this is the last of a series/type of motherboard to be produced, I'd prefer to have the new series/type of motherboard. With SATA II hdds, capable of 300/something-or-others (please excuse my ignorance), I'd want the motherboard to be able to support it too.


I don't know much about RAM at all. The RAM that I have in my present computer came in 3 speeds. I chose the middle speed and later wished that I had gotten the faster speed. It could have made a small difference. The DDR3 that's mentioned on the cpu site you mentioned sounds good . . . "You can now use . . . the hot new DDR3 memory for extreme performance."


The psu that you mentioned is 650W. With all the drives that I'll be installing, because I'll be buying a converter too, I'd prefer one that's about 850W, if available. I don't know if you used to watch Home Improvement, but like Tim Allen always said . . . "more power, er, er, er" LOL


I don't want any regrets with this computer. I don't want to say that I should have spent an additional $50 on something and an additional $75 on something and my pc would have worked so much better.


The cpu that you mentioned, Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail, looks good but if there's better/faster/stronger for $100 more,


SATA isn't for me, unless I can use the card for JBOD, as Pedro mentioned.


I'm sorry if I seem very picky but I wasn't picky enough when I build this pc (and rebuilt it again) and I've never been happy with it. I want this one to be everything I've ever wanted and then some. :)
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#38
jrm20

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Hi James . . . welcome back!

This is going to be a complete new build. I won't be adding anything to my present pc and I'm not thinking about taking parts from it to make a new pc, except for the DVD drive, a BenQ DW1655 that I installed about a year ago, so that will save me some money.

I know that you're trying to save me money but I have about $1,900 more that I can spend, and I already purchased the main drive that I'll be using. It's a Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.co...;Tpk=WD1001FALS

and I already purchased the case. :)

and I have a DVD drive

and I have a Windows XP Pro x64 disk so I won't have to purchase a Windows disk.

I have $600 set aside for the motherboard so be free to look at the more expensive ones.


I use my computer to store and watch videos. As I mentioned in a previous post, about 99% of my storage contains videos. I watch them a lot and I burn very rarely, usually just for my grandson so he won't ruin the originals.


Because I use my computer mainly for videos, one of the requirments that I would want of a motherboard is an excellent video card or a port to install an excellent video card. I looked at the motherboard at the link you provided and I read a review at
http://www.bit-tech....5-has-arrived/1
One point about the board struck me

here we have the very last mainstream chipset that will use the antiquated front side bus.

I don't know what a bus is but if this is the last of a series/type of motherboard to be produced, I'd prefer to have the new series/type of motherboard. With SATA II hdds, capable of 300/something-or-others (please excuse my ignorance), I'd want the motherboard to be able to support it too.


I don't know much about RAM at all. The RAM that I have in my present computer came in 3 speeds. I chose the middle speed and later wished that I had gotten the faster speed. It could have made a small difference. The DDR3 that's mentioned on the cpu site you mentioned sounds good . . . "You can now use . . . the hot new DDR3 memory for extreme performance."


The psu that you mentioned is 650W. With all the drives that I'll be installing, because I'll be buying a converter too, I'd prefer one that's about 850W, if available. I don't know if you used to watch Home Improvement, but like Tim Allen always said . . . "more power, er, er, er" LOL


I don't want any regrets with this computer. I don't want to say that I should have spent an additional $50 on something and an additional $75 on something and my pc would have worked so much better.


The cpu that you mentioned, Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail, looks good but if there's better/faster/stronger for $100 more,


SATA isn't for me, unless I can use the card for JBOD, as Pedro mentioned.


I'm sorry if I seem very picky but I wasn't picky enough when I build this pc (and rebuilt it again) and I've never been happy with it. I want this one to be everything I've ever wanted and then some. :)



James has this thread under control so I wont thread hog like many others do.

I will however pick you out the best price to performance power supply you can get with 850W..

corsair 850W CMPSU-850TX Not a cheap power supply it is HIGH QUALITY.

http://www.newegg.co.....=corsair 850w

Even if you didn't really need the full 850W or close to it you cannot find a better deal ANYWHERE for a rock solid 850W and SINGLE RAIL design which is a more reliable design. The price is amazing as if I was ready to build my next pc now I would go ahead and grab one up. On sale for $139.99 ($119.99 after rebate). I remember when this psu was $170ish..

Hopefully you have enough power connections for all your Hard drives still. The multi rail Psu's are fine but not as good as a single rail like I have stated already lol.

LOL just noticed the first psu recommended was the 650w corsair.

Good Luck on build. :)
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#39
james_8970

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Hello,

I know that you're trying to save me money but I have about $1,900 more that I can spend, and I already purchased the main drive that I'll be using.

Unless you plan on making a RAID configuration, there really is no need to spend any more. Why don't you buy a bunch of 1TB hard drives to eliminate the older drives with a smaller capacity?

Because I use my computer mainly for videos, one of the requirments that I would want of a motherboard is an excellent video card or a port to install an excellent video card.

I gave you a link to a video card, it should be sufficient for 1080p playback if this is your intention.

I don't know what a bus is but if this is the last of a series/type of motherboard to be produced, I'd prefer to have the new series/type of motherboard. With SATA II hdds, capable of 300/something-or-others (please excuse my ignorance), I'd want the motherboard to be able to support it too.

The motherboard that I have already selected supports SATA II, it has been the standard for a while. The used the word "antique" a little sparingly in that review. The FSB has since been eliminated on Intel's newest platform, but it does not by any means hold back that hardware. If you wish, I can give you a different build for Intels latest and greatest, but if you only watch videos, it'll be money down the drain as you'll notice vurtually no difference between the two builds, the $$$ value between the two will be rather significant. I think the money would be better spent on a new monitor. The only advantages you'd notice is the fact that it has 10 SATA ports rather then the 8 ports on the board that I suggested above.

I don't know much about RAM at all. The RAM that I have in my present computer came in 3 speeds. I chose the middle speed and later wished that I had gotten the faster speed. It could have made a small difference. The DDR3 that's mentioned on the cpu site you mentioned sounds good . . . "You can now use . . . the hot new DDR3 memory for extreme performance."

I said it earlier in this thread, RAM speed makes a negligible difference on performance. We are talking about a difference that cannot be noticed with the human perception and only on synthetic benchmarks that measure time. You're literally looking a milliseconds of difference in rendering time for 99.9% of all applications out there.

The psu that you mentioned is 650W. With all the drives that I'll be installing, because I'll be buying a converter too, I'd prefer one that's about 850W, if available. I don't know if you used to watch Home Improvement, but like Tim Allen always said . . . "more power, er, er, er" LOL

The only time you're coming will require a lot of power is during the initial spin up. You're computer will not support staggered spin up, so you're drives are likely to pull 30W a piece when you boot up, then they'll pull about 6-10 watts depending on the drive after that. 650W is more then sufficient for this build.

I don't want any regrets with this computer. I don't want to say that I should have spent an additional $50 on something and an additional $75 on something and my pc would have worked so much better.

I try my best to avoid these possible situations and make users aware of it. While there is better out there, you'd be looking at spending a significant amount more for the i7 setup. My suggestion to you is that if you really want something better, just to go with a quad core.

SATA isn't for me, unless I can use the card for JBOD, as Pedro mentioned.

What do you mean? SATA is the consumer industry standard. You can use JBOD, but you're looking at 1200$ for the card (if you wanted to combine all drives into "one large" drive), all the drives need to be wiped clean and I'm pretty sure all the drives should be the same model (I haven't looked to much into JBOD, as RAID is far better and has more uses IMO). Additionally, when dealing with 16TB of storage, you should have fault tolerance, JBOD provides none. Basically what it comes down to, you should either do a RAID5/6 array or nothing. Spending $1200 on a RAID card for JBOD is a big waste.

Don't worry about being picky, I'd be the same way if it were my build.
James

Edit: Either the PSU that jrm20 mentioned or a Silverstone model (Zues) would defiantly be the way to go if you really feel the need to get 850W, but you need to understand that a PSU works in it's most efficient state when it's outputing 50-70% of it's maximum sustained output. Anything below that normally means the PSU works less efficiently. I'm stating this because going over board with the PSU can be bad. However, if you intend on buying a high end graphics card and such later on (I don't think this is your intent), there really is no reason to do so.

Edited by james_8970, 19 January 2009 - 08:12 PM.

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#40
Denisejm

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corsair 850W CMPSU-850TX Not a cheap power supply it is HIGH QUALITY.

http://www.newegg.co.....=corsair 850w

I think the cost of this psu is not high at all. I thought it would cost about $200 and was ready to pay that much for it. As long as it'll fit in the case, I'll buy it. Corsair is a very good name brand, known for very good psu's.

Hopefully you have enough power connections for all your Hard drives still. The multi rail Psu's are fine but not as good as a single rail like I have stated already lol.

I don't know anything about rails or the number of power connections (in the case or on the psu?). With the converter that I'll be installing and the large hdds that I'll be buying, I'll have a minimum of 20 hdds. Will I have enough power connections? Do they sell splitters?

I won't buy the psu until I'm sure it'll fit into the case. Once I get the go-ahead, I'll purchase it.
.
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#41
james_8970

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With the converter that I'll be installing

Converter? What are you talking about? The molex to SATA converter/splitter?

I'll have a minimum of 20 hdds.

How many hard drives are you getting in total in this build? You need to allocate 30W per hard drive during boot up. If you're actually thinking about getting 20 hard drives, you might be forced to look into a RAID card that supports staggered spin up..... You might want to consider putting two power supplies in your system. One for your hard drives, one for everything else.

Do they sell splitters?

Yes they do, I have some listed in my post that features your entire build.
James

Edited by james_8970, 19 January 2009 - 08:21 PM.

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#42
Denisejm

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Hi James . . . it seemed that you thought that I needed to save a lot of money in order to build the computer and I just wanted to let you know that I have the money to buy more expensive parts if it would give me a more. Besides the 3 parts that I mentioned that I already purchased or have, I purchased a 24"wide screen monitor that has 178 degree horizontal and vertical angles. I could have spent $300.00 less but I wanted the 178 degree horizontal and vertical angles and all the other extras it has. The price of the monitor wasn't included in the $2,500 for the parts for the tower. I certainly don't want to waste money on something that will give me little benefit but, on the other hand, I don't want to spare money that will keep me from benefiting by spending a little more.

I've purchased a couple 1T SATA hdds and plan on buying more after the computer is built so that I can eliminate my smaller USB 2.0 hdds, but the parts for the tower will come first. If need be, I'll buy an external multi-enclosure for some of my drives if they can't fit into the case for one reason or another.

What do you mean? SATA is the consumer industry standard.

I know how you feel about SATA. We've discussed it before and I thought that you agreed that since I didn't want SATA, we wouldn't go the SATA route.


You can use JBOD, but you're looking at 1200$ for the card alone (if you wanted to combine all drives into "one large" drive)

From my understanding of JBOD, JBOD allows each drive to be connected separately, not as one, and they will be seen as separate drives. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

From your response, I feel like I insulted you, and I'm sorry if I did, but it wasn't my intention.

I'll have to think more on it and do some more research. I shouldn't have put all of this on any one person's shoulders. I very much appreciate all the advice you've given me and I'll take it all into consideration.
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#43
Denisejm

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Converter? What are you talking about?

The converter that you mentioned in post #9, to convert 5.5" drives to 3.5" drives. One was also mentioned in post #19.


How many hard drives are you getting in total in this build?

At first, until I eliminate my smaller hdds and buy larger ones, I'll have 23 hdds. Some of them can remain external hdds. Once I eliminate the smaller hdds and purchase larger ones, I'll have between 15 to 18 hdds.
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#44
james_8970

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Hello,

I certainly don't want to waste money on something that will give me little benefit but, on the other hand, I don't want to spare money that will keep me from benefiting by spending a little more.

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think you'd notice any additional improvements with anything any better. I mean, I could change a few things around, like give you a quad core CPU (e.g. Q9650), but aside from swapping out the CPU, I don't think you'd notice any improvements by changing anything. You simply use this computer for watching videos and storing data, am I right?

I know how you feel about SATA. We've discussed it before and I thought that you agreed that since I didn't want SATA, we wouldn't go the SATA route.

I'm still unsure of what you are asking here. All the hard drives you are currently buying are SATA, there is no alternative, unless you wanted to start looking at enterprise server equipment that costs a multiple fold more.

From my understanding of JBOD, JBOD allows each drive to be connected separately, not as one, and they will be seen as separate drives. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

JBOD makes your computer think that x amount of drives look like one large drive. Basically you install a file, windows decides what drives it goes on.
Another way of describing it would be that windows assigns one letter drives to two or more drives.
An example of such would be two 500GB drives installed under a JBOD storage format. When in windows, the two drives would be assigned one drive letter and Windows would think that it's a single 1TB (or 1000GB) drive.

Again, the drives cannot have any information on it when you change it's storing format from the IDE or ACHI format to JBOD. I cannot stress this enough, when you are dealing with the amount of drives that you are considering and the amount of data, JBOD is a VERY bad idea as it provides no redundancy or fault tolerance.

From your response, I feel like I insulted you, and I'm sorry if I did, but it wasn't my intention.

Not in the least, this is the problem with text related conversation, you don't know about the tone of someones voice. Don't ever think that you are insulting me, I'm here to help :)

The converter that you mentioned in post #9, to convert 5.5" drives to 3.5" drives. One was also mentioned in post #19.

Oh, gotcha. I thought you were making a reference to something else. Just a note, it's a 5.25" drive bay, not 5.5". :)

On that note, I probably won't reply to this topic till later tonight at the earliest as I have to go and study. If you have any further questions, ask away and I'll respond tomorrow evening at the latest.
James

Edited by james_8970, 19 January 2009 - 09:23 PM.

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#45
Denisejm

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Ok, lets forget about JBOD for now, and maybe forever. You know a lot more about computers than I do.

You mentioned in post #36,

At this point, my best recommendation is to get a 200$ motherboard and then a cheap expansion card for additional SATA ports and forget about JBOD.

How does an expansion card work? Is it for internal hdds?

Also,

Edit: Either the PSU that jrm20 mentioned or a Silverstone model (Zues) would defiantly be the way to go if you really feel the need to get 850W, but you need to understand that a PSU works in it's most efficient state when it's outputing 50-70% of it's maximum sustained output. Anything below that normally means the PSU works less efficiently. I'm stating this because going over board with the PSU can be bad. However, if you intend on buying a high end graphics card and such later on (I don't think this is your intent), there really is no reason to do so.

Why wouldn't I want a high end graphics card when the main purpose of my pc is to watch videos? Is that just for gaming?
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