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Mobo upgrade advice please


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#46
Eden1

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First off, the "u" stands for "micro" so the boards are the same.

As for P4 versus CD versus C2D. You probably won't notice the difference in "real time"... meaning you won't "sense" anything. All of them will "seem" fast and all of them will run applications very well. You will only notice a difference if you have to start crunching numbers... ie, encoding video... and only if you actually "measure" the time it takes for different processors. But then, it won't be a humoungous increase just because it's C2D over P4. Don't get the wrong impression... P4's aren't slouches! However, given your choices, I would go with the C2D E7400. If I had to choose given "mine"... I would go with the E8400.
Did you read the Wiki page I linked? Here's the P4 PAGE. I realize that all of this is information overload, but you need to read to gain some sort of grasp on processors and the differences between them.


Hi thanks for your help & the mobo id - you know it would help us newbies if the hardware makers would keep to one set of codes & not use different reference terms to confuse ....imo . :)
Anyway - yes i have read the link you supplied and also many of the links that provided and yes it is quite hard to take in but i can see the progression and evolution of CPU's .
To be honest i could easily get carried away with this particular rebuild and want to put in a better mobo & higher processor but i'm going to restrict myself to a set budget as you had earlier suggested .It seems pretty much any dual core /Core2 will be an improvement and (i hope ) also this will be the case with the mobo . For that reason with my approx figure in my mind and allowing for the new PSU already invested i'm asking myself this question -
"would i be better off spending just a little more on a higher spec mobo and going with, say the the Dual Core E5300 - or keeping to the Asus P5KPL-AM and paying the extra towards the C2D ?"
That's tricky for me to decide - if i was building from scratch and taking into account my requirements i'd allow a higher budget but right now &for this PC's purpose i can't justify that & think it's right to keep to a limit .
I've seen a number of mobo ad's - my impression is that Asus is a good reliable maker (?) so keeping with their models within my price range about the main difference i can see is with the graphics chip - a lot seem to be using either the Intel G31 or G41 .
ie -
http://uk.asus.com/p...8c0CULpvP1ZM9kT
Now as with my previous comment on the CPU debate -i can only really decide this on how any of these chipset's compare to the ATI Radion Xpress200 on the old Intel board .
Can you offer any advice on this issue of the G31/ G41 comparison -we're talking general usage here /DVD /editing/ripping etc - no real game playing .
I mean i got by with the Xpress200 , so if both the G31 & 41 are improvements on this than i'd be satisfied with either but i hate the thought of missing out on a better board for only a few dollars(pounds) extra ? (assuming compatability with my IDE drives)

Sorry for another long post -i think i'm getting near the end of this thread now ... i hope :)
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#47
makai

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Hi thanks for your help & the mobo id - you know it would help us newbies if the hardware makers would keep to one set of codes & not use different reference terms to confuse ....imo . :)

If they did, it wouldn't be fun! :)

Truthfully, I don't keep up with onboard graphics... I never use it, except in my laptops, and for that matter, it's never a deciding issue as I buy laptops for other reasons. That said, I would think the higher graphics capability is always a better choice if it's onboard, but not always the case if price is an issue. For what you want to do, either will be fine.

ASUS is a very good manufacture and in fact, the board you linked is akin to what I'm using now. My desktop uses a P5Q Pro. The P5Q Pro has had many good reviews so I imagine the board you linked would also be quite decent. I've been using ASUS boards exclusively for many years now. I used to use ABIT exclusively but then one day I wanted to build a machine and they just didn't offer what I was looking, so I switched to ASUS and never looked back. The computer I just set up for my nephew was my first attempt at using a Gigabyte board. I've been meaning to try Gigabyte boards for many years, and so decided to go with them this time around. One of the main reasons I did was because they don't sell the P5Q Pro anymore. They do sell different versions of the P5Q, but not the Pro version I wanted.
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#48
Eden1

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Hi Makai ,
Thanks for all your help & advice - i'll be making my mobo/cpu choices shortly so i really appreciate your assistance .
Just out of curiousity and for future reference - can i ask how you found the setting up & installation of the Gigabyte board in your nephew's PC build , compared to your Asus experience .
Just wondered (specifications aside) if there was any major differences with the initial bios setup - or perhaps it is a standard procedure ?
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#49
makai

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Nothing special about Gigabyte's bios. Bios' are basically the same no matter the vendor... however they may use different names for the same thing... which can sometimes be confusing. Your best bet to learn about any particular bios, or to find out about something you don't understand, is to search out Google... which I had to do when working on my nephew’s computer to find out how to disable speedstepping.
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#50
Eden1

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Ok that's great , thanks for your help .
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#51
makai

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You're welcome... I hope you find what you need to get your computer back up and running! Good luck!
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#52
Eden1

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Hi Makai ,

I'm making progress with my rebuild but before i go ahead and physically install anything i wanted to revist the issue of reinstalling XP etc and ask your thoughts if i may ?
Ok the situation is that i have the disk that came with the emachine which states
"Emachines -MS Windows XP Media Centre Ed 2005 - Operating System Disc . Use this disc to reinstall your OS... etc etc , & for brief instructions "reinstalling /following onscreen messages etc " .
Remembering your earlier info , i'm concerned this disc might have drivers on it that might conflict with the new mobo ?
If you think this might be the case is there any way to proceed with this disc or should i use another as you suggested ?
With that in mind i found a previous XP disc i had from my older system which i purchased from a PC engineer at the time of a repair.
Basically this disk is a DEll and was used at the time to upgrade my old system (which was NOT a DEll ) from it's original Win98 OS to XP OS.
The disk states -
"Reinstallation of MS Windows XP Professional Inc Service pack 1a "
"Only use to reinstall the Software / OS on a DEll Computer , This CD is not for reinstallation of programs or Drivers ".

Now would this XP disc be compatible with the version on the emachine - i mean can i use the Dell disc to physically install on the rebuild but use the activate/Authorisation code/details which are on the back of the Emachine case ?
Or are these two versions of XP incompatible -whereby i mean , would it be detectable and cause problems ?
Just want to get this part straight in my head before i proceed .
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#53
makai

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A couple of things...

First off, the Dell disk was illegal to use to upgrade your "Not a Dell" computer in the first place. The thing about many Dell disks, in comparison to other recovery disks distributed by other OEMs, is that it's really an XP disc that could be used to install XP onto any computer. If you didn't read the label, and just popped it into the CD drive, there would be nothing there to make you think it wasn't just a regular XP disk. Whoever sold you the disk probably knew this but didn't inform you and so basically your old machine was illegal all that time. That being the case, if you use it to install XP onto the emachines, you would again be illegal. So, no you can't legally use it.

Addressing the emachines disk...
Depending on how emachines has slipstreamed their disk will determine how the install goes. However, Windows being the way it is, will toll your computer's hardware, and then look for drivers. If the hardware and drivers don't match, then Windows won't install the wrong driver... instead, you'll just end up with yellow or red marks in Device Manager, and then you need to get the right drivers and install them. But again, I don't know how emachine's set up the disk, so if it does somehow install incorrect drivers, just uninstall them. By the way, the fact that you upgraded your motherboard doesn't forbid you from legally using the emachines recovery disc. Your "machine" is licensed to use that disk, so as long as you don't change every single thing in your computer, it's still the same machine, and you can legally install from that disk.
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#54
Eden1

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Hi Makai ,

Thanks for your thoughts - yes i suspected that might have been the situation with the Dell disc . As i recall that was used to update the original PC's Windows98
and in fact it did not go on to last much longer anyway but that was most likely due to hardware age.
Anyway what puzzles me a bit about this issue is if another XP disc were to be installed - say XP Home , could i then give the details from the COA sticker on the back of my emachine case ?
I mean i had XP Media Center Ed 2005 so does that mean i absolutely would need to have another identical copy of that version of XP - but use my own COA key ?
The thing is i don't unfortunately know anybody with another MC 2005 disc that i can use but my sister still uses XP home on her desktop and could lend me that disk , but i have a rotten feeling that won't work either ??

Regarding the emachines disc - from what i've managed to find about this problem ,
there must be something in the disc that will recognise the presence of a different mobo ? What happens at that point and whether the install will/won't be allowed to proceed is the confusing thing .It may be that i'll have to go ahead and give it a try to find out , but obviously i'm trying to make preparation beforehand in my own mind so as to know how to proceed .
Just so as i know - once the hardware is installed and say i give the emachine disc a try and it really goes wrong , can i still correct it with an install attempt with another disc ( if that proves compatible ) ?
Just wish i knew someone with XP MC 2005 ...but oh well ... :)
Thanks again for getting back to me on this .
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#55
makai

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You're confusing me again... :)

first you post this...

Ok the situation is that i have the disk that came with the emachine which states
"Emachines -MS Windows XP Media Centre Ed 2005 - Operating System Disc . Use this disc to reinstall your OS... etc etc , & for brief instructions "reinstalling /following onscreen messages etc " .


Then you post this...

Just wish i knew someone with XP MC 2005 ...but oh well ...


Are you speaking about the same type XP disc? Do you or do you not have an XP Media Center Ed 2005 disc? If so, that's what you need to install. I hope you realize that its an improvement over XP Home.

You can only "legally" install the OS that your machine is licensed to or you need to buy another XP OS disc. Pure and simple.

You need to stop worrying so much. Just install the OS and see what happens. :)
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#56
Eden1

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Ok sorry .. remember i'm the one who's s'posed to find this all confusing :) .
but seriously - i have a disc that came with this Emachines system (whether this is what is called an OEM i don't know ?) but all i can tell you is it states exactly this on the disc -

Quote-
"Emachines - Microsoft Windows XP Media Centre Edition 2005 .
Operating System Disc .
Use this disc to re-install your operating system .Keep this OS disc in a safe place .
To install the Operating System - Insert this disc , close all programs , restart your computer then follow the on screen instructions .
Warning - this process erases all data and files from your HD
For distribution with a new Emachines PC ." unquote .

Based on this description do you think this sounds like an OS disc - it seems to me it might hold extra data as i did not get any other driver discs etc with the system - just this emachines disc .
If this disc just holds the Media Center OS then that's great ,as that is the OS i want to reinstall in the rebuild .
However my fear ...and i guess from your idea that this disc might also hold emachine driver data etc , is that use of this disc will either
a/ conflict with the new mobo in some way or
b/ detect that a different mobo is in place (from the original ) and not proceed with the installation or create some other unknown problem .

I'm just hoping for a straightforward installwith no problems but as you say it's looking like i'm gonna have cross that bridge when/if i come to it ?
I mentioned the XP Home Edition disc that my sister has ,which i could use as a possible alternative to the emachine MS 2005 disc -i know the Media Center is a better version but what i'm not clear on is if i needed to , (say the emachine disc causes problems) could i use the XP Home disc to install but use my COA Key details to authorise ...which i'm guessing i will have to produce during the install ?
See i'm thinking that if i did load (for example) the Home Ed disc , when i put in my Media Centre COA details I'm going to get a failed install message etc from MS .
Yep - you're right & i know i shouldn't worry about it but that's 'cos i haven't done this before and i'm just trying to think ahead for how i can proceed if the emachine disc is no good.
In an ideal world and if i'm really lucky - the emachine disc will install ok -in which case i'll look back on this and think what was i worried about ! :)
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#57
makai

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I'm just hoping for a straightforward installwith no problems but as you say it's looking like i'm gonna have cross that bridge when/if i come to it ?
I mentioned the XP Home Edition disc that my sister has ,which i could use as a possible alternative to the emachine MS 2005 disc -i know the Media Center is a better version but what i'm not clear on is if i needed to , (say the emachine disc causes problems) could i use the XP Home disc to install but use my COA Key details to authorise ...which i'm guessing i will have to produce during the install ?

Is there some reason that you can't understand that installing XP on your machine using your sister's XP Home disk is .... ILLEGAL?

Quote-
"Emachines - Microsoft Windows XP Media Centre Edition 2005 .
Operating System Disc .
Use this disc to re-install your operating system .Keep this OS disc in a safe place .
To install the Operating System - Insert this disc , close all programs , restart your computer then follow the on screen instructions .
Warning - this process erases all data and files from your HD
For distribution with a new Emachines PC ." unquote .

If you read this very carefully, you'll see that this describes the disk as the Operating System disk... I even colored it red and underlined it for you. So why are you asking me if I think the disc you have is an OS disk? Whether it also has emachine drivers doesn't matter. JUST INSTALL IT!
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#58
Eden1

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Hi ,
Ok now it's my turn to be totally confused .... the reason i even thought of using another XP disc to install is because you previously said this

" To answer the XP installation question... as long as you have a valid license... OEM... on a sticker on your computer, you can use any XP disc to reinstall as long as the disc relates to the licensce... XP Home, or Pro. This means you could borrow a disc from any friend and install XP using your license. Driver-wise... you will need to download for the new motherboard, so basically, your Intel motherboard disc is now history. Some OEM manufacture's install disc is just like a standard XP disc. It will install on any computer, but may have incorrect drivers slipstreamed into the disc. This won't stop you from installing with it, it'll just probably give you some errors after the install, in which case, you just have to ignore them and uninstall any incorrect drivers that may have been installed. "

Something's getting muddled here - i took what you had described as meaning that IF the emachine disc couldn't be used i could borrow someone else's XP disc and install that but use MY COA details from the back of my Emachine which is a valid license - if i'm misinterpreting that then this is where our confusion lies ?
I wasn't even aware of doing such a thing until your suggestion .
Now you're telling me this would be illegal ?
I have said i will obviously try my own emachine disc ...despite the indication that it might cause conflict . IF that doesn't work (for whatever reason ..i hope it will ) based on your suggestion (above) i was offering alternatives that i have available to me .
Namely - i have this old Dell XP Pro disc which i do understand is illegal so i won't be using that , however the only other person i know with XP is my sister who has XP Home Ed...that was my other alternative which it now appears is also a non starter ?
How am i supposed to "borrow" another XP disc from elsewhere yet not use it as that would be illegal .
All i was trying to define is this -
"you can use any XP disc to reinstall as long as the disc relates to the licensce... XP Home, or Pro "

In other words the disc i CAN borrow to install has to be ( in my case ) an XP Media Center 2005 version of XP and not any other version such as XP Pro or XP Home , which would be illegal right ?

Regarding the Emachine's disc - i know it says OS on it and i know what that means ...i only gave you the wording on the disc ' because i thought it would be helpful for you to know exactly what type of disc i have here .
I'll use the emachine disc but all that concerns me about it is your thought that it might cause me errors after or during the install .
If you remember , at the time i asked you about the procedure for uninstalling these incorrect drivers ?

You're wondering why am i fussing about the emachine disc .. the problem is that in trying to read up about this issue , it sounds like emachines discs cannot be installed on machines with significantly different hardware ..ie a new mobo .. if there's a way round this by just uninstalling drivers etc then great that's what i'll try and do .
All i'm trying to do is look for an alternative which might give me less problems with the install - other than buy a new XP disc !
Sorry for the long post again , :)
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#59
makai

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Ok now it's my turn to be totally confused .... the reason i even thought of using another XP disc to install is because you previously said this

" To answer the XP installation question... as long as you have a valid license... OEM... on a sticker on your computer, you can use any XP disc to reinstall as long as the disc relates to the licensce... XP Home, or Pro. This means you could borrow a disc from any friend and install XP using your license. Driver-wise... you will need to download for the new motherboard, so basically, your Intel motherboard disc is now history. Some OEM manufacture's install disc is just like a standard XP disc. It will install on any computer, but may have incorrect drivers slipstreamed into the disc. This won't stop you from installing with it, it'll just probably give you some errors after the install, in which case, you just have to ignore them and uninstall any incorrect drivers that may have been installed. "

The reason I stated what's quoted above is because you never mentioned what OS you had. Many times on this forum we have to guess at what people are running on their machines and so we use examples of OS's... like "XP Home, or Pro". In fact, it wasn't until the very next reply you made (post #38) did you disclose that you were using XP Home Media Center 2005. XP Home, and XP Home Media Center 2005 are two totally different OS's. They are not the same... and is why I wrote this... "you can use any XP disc to reinstall as long as the disc relates to the license". This means that if you have a license for XP Home Media Center 2005, then the only disk you can use is... XP Home Media Center 2005. And yes, if you didn't have the disc but were licensed for it, then you could borrow a disc from someone... as long as it relates to your license... which is XP Home Media Center 2005 (or Microsoft Windows XP Media Centre Edition 2005, which is what's on the actual disc as you stated in post #56). I don't know how I can make this any more clearer. I even mentioned this fact two more times and even wrote this...

You can only "legally" install the OS that your machine is licensed to or you need to buy another XP OS disc. Pure and simple.

And, still, you're confused about what you can use. What part out of all of this can't you understand? :)


I'll use the emachine disc but all that concerns me about it is your thought that it might cause me errors after or during the install .

Yes, and the key word in your sentence is "might". Read what I wrote below and pay attention to the red colored text. This is a direct quote from post #37...

It will install on any computer, but may have incorrect drivers slipstreamed into the disc. This won't stop you from installing with it, it'll just probably give you some errors after the install, in which case, you just have to ignore them and uninstall any incorrect drivers that may have been installed.

OEM manufactures (dell, hp, emachines), may build up their XP discs differently. Some might build the disc to just install drivers regardless of what hardware is present. Some might build the disc with the drivers present and let Windows discover and retrieve the drivers it needs. I don't know how emachines builds their disc and so I have to use words like MAY, or PROBABLY. This is not to scare anyone, this is to alert someone about what MAY happen. If you're just worried because something MAY happen, then I don't know how to ease your fright.

All i'm trying to do is look for an alternative which might give me less problems with the install - other than buy a new XP disc !

You have no alternatives. Your machine is licensed for a particular version of XP. You can only legally install that version of XP. If you install another version of XP and use your license, then you are ILLEGAL. Period.

You're wondering why am i fussing about the emachine disc .. the problem is that in trying to read up about this issue , it sounds like emachines discs cannot be installed on machines with significantly different hardware ..ie a new mobo

Xp is tolerant about hardware changes. Changing one component, even the motherboard, won't cause you to invalidate your license. And even if XP were to grumble about it, all you have to do is call Microsoft and explain what happened. Microsoft will simply renew the registration.

This will be the end of this conversation. I will assist in any other way I can, but I won't assist you any longer pertaining to XP licensing information. If you don't get it by now, I can't help you.
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#60
Eden1

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These words are purely posted here as a note of caution to any others who might read this thread finding themselves in a similar postion to me regarding reinstallation of XP using a disc supplied with an Emachines system.
Be very careful ...very careful not too read too much on this subject of emachines/OEM discs -you will get tied up in knots by misinformation .
NOTE - I'm NOT talking about Makai here - i have obviously irritated the guy because i have brought this confusion to him for his advice and that was obviously not my intention.
This relates specifically to the emachines disc & what may/may not be on it and whether it may/may not install with an upgraded mobo - Makai doesn't know , I certainly don't know i'm only a novice but i'm gonna be finding out soon !
Hopefully it will install fine for me without issue & for you too if you are in the same position ...in which case don't try learning you'll end up listening to scare stories of BSOD's , installation freezes , Driver conflicts and "emachines disc will not let you install" etc etc ....

You see what happens is you end up hearing everything from -
the disc won't work , it might work , it won't install ,it will install , MS might validate , MS won't validate ,etc etc and you end up totally confused and that's why you end up on a forum like this apparently asking stupid questions!
In short , there apparently are many many EX emachines users who may be interested in this very topic - all i can say is contrary to what Makai believes i DO get it , i absolutely do get it and what's more i got it some time ago .My mistake has obviously been misunderstanding a key point (specifically if your PC is licensed to one type of OS like XP Media Centre 2005 for example , you can only follow Makai's instructions ) - also not putting my concern about this in a better way better -ok i'll hold my hand up to that! :)
There has clearly been miscommunication/misunderstanding throughout this thread ...whatever ...there's no point pursuing it .
As Makai has stated this will probably be an end to this subject , which is a shame .
Oh .. and choose your words very carefully .
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