[oviedo7]

Hi,

A friend just bought new PC with Win 7. We then took the HDD from his old Vista PC. I've assured him that with 7 he would never miss Vista, he would like to keep it "in the corner" of the old HDD and use the rest of it for storage in his new PC. He has no plans to multi-boot Vista and 7 and just want it for possible future usage...

As it is now the old HDD is one big part(F:) plus a smaller "recovery" part (G:). Could we just partition the the F drive into a 10/90 part or so leaving Vista idle and the new partition for storage? Or do we then need to do anything about the Vista part?

Could there be complications when Windows 7 "sees" the Vista partition like it does now? Would there be any mix ups in systems files or so?

Should the Vista partition be hidden?

Thank you!

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The key thing here is to ensure the drive with Windows 7 is listed first (before the Vista drive) in the boot order in the BIOS Setup Menu. This is important for a couple reasons. First, Vista is currently configured to work with the old hardware, but more importantly, it is most likely that Vista license is an OEM license. That is, that copy of Vista came pre-installed or was purchase for that old machine. Moving that drive into the boot position of the new machine would be a violation of the terms of the license agreement - in other words, that would be an illegal use of the license.

Then, when you boot to Windows 7, Windows 7 will not see Vista at all. It will see the files when exploring that drive, but it will not see those files as the program Vista.

If you repartition the hard drive, or resize its partitions, you must use a special partition utility or all the data will be lost. I use EASEUS Partition Master Home Edition – formally Partition Magic - which is free for home, non-commercial use.

There is no need to make any partition hidden.

[Digerati]

The key thing here is to ensure the drive with Windows 7 is listed first (before the Vista drive) in the boot order in the BIOS Setup Menu. This is important for a couple reasons. First, Vista is currently configured to work with the old hardware, but more importantly, it is most likely that Vista license is an OEM license. That is, that copy of Vista came pre-installed or was purchase for that old machine. Moving that drive into the boot position of the new machine would be a violation of the terms of the license agreement - in other words, that would be an illegal use of the license.

Then, when you boot to Windows 7, Windows 7 will not see Vista at all. It will see the files when exploring that drive, but it will not see those files as the program Vista.

If you repartition the hard drive, or resize its partitions, you must use a special partition utility or all the data will be lost. I use EASEUS Partition Master Home Edition – formally Partition Magic - which is free for home, non-commercial use.

There is no need to make any partition hidden.

[oviedo7]

Thank you for your reply.

Okay so we need not do anything special about the partition as such... We'll make sure it's behind the Windows 7 partition in the boot order.

We were thinking however we could just use the partitioning service in Windows 7 to make another partition alongside the one containing Vista, seemingly not - We'll try your advised program instead. Maybe he should store stuff in a folder on the same partition as Vista...?

Or maybe just delete Vista all together since he got 7 now and since it's tied to the old mobo and whatnot...

But we can't use the Windows partition service to make that partition?

[Digerati]

You can use Windows 7 own partitioning program. It is a able program. It boils down to which one you are more comfortable with.

Or maybe just delete Vista all together since he got 7 now and since it's tied to the old mobo and whatnot...

That makes sense to me. The only reason (from my viewpoint) to keep the old drive is because there are data files (family photos, Word documents, etc.) on it that your friend does not want to lose. So if me, I would just make sure any data file I want to keep is moved (backed up) to the new Windows 7 drive, then I would format over the old Vista drive (perhaps making it one big partition or 2 smaller ones), then just use this newly formatted drive for storage.

[oviedo7]

So partitioning through Win 7 would not wipe the Vista files?

I have already made backups of all his data from the old drive and stuffed it into his new Win 7 machine so all is sorted in that department.

He would just like to have the option to mess with Vista in the future - trying perhaps to repair the old machine sometime in the future but... uhm we're currently discussing whether Vista has anything to offer over Win 7. The way I see it it would a bit different if it was XP or another OS "different" from Win 7...

He should give up on Vista and if the old machine someday gets up and running there would always be Linux or a newer OS from Microsoft!

[Digerati]

So partitioning through Win 7 would not wipe the Vista files?

Ummm, I did not say that. The hope when using any one of those utilities is that no files will be damaged or lost, but there is no guarantee of that. Any time you mess with the partitions, there is a risk all the data will become corrupt. These programs try to minimize that possibility but stuff happens. The hard drive could hiccup or a drunk hits a power pole and takes out your power, or the layer of heat trapping dust over the CPU heatsink finally causes the CPU to overheat and shut down (with a crash). Who knows? Murphy's Law applies.

Anyway, I think you are focusing on something not important. This is now a Windows 7 machine. There is no need to worry about Vista files. The only concern would be data files (personal pictures, songs, word documents, etc.) and programs that your friend downloaded (or bought on disk) then installed on the Vista machine. You said you already backed up the data files. For the programs, he can just download and install them again - though this time using Windows 7 so the Windows 7 Registry is properly configured. With that Vista disk serving now as a secondary drive for additional storage, assuming resizing the partitions leaves all files in tact, the Vista files will remain on that disk in tact too - should your friend decide to return that drive to the old Vista machine. Though in my opinion, those old Vista files are just hogging up disk space.

He would just like to have the option to mess with Vista in the future

That's fine but not on this new computer. As noted before, it most likely is an OEM license for Vista, therefore it can only legally be run (booted to) on the old Vista machine. The Vista files just sitting there on this new secondary drive are not bootable (because the drive is not a boot drive). Therefore, no license violation issues. That said, should he return that Vista drive back to the Vista machine (or buy a new hard disk for the old Vista machine) he can just reinstall Vista on the old Vista machine using his Vista install disk and license.

There is nothing in Vista that is better than Windows 7. Window 7 is what Vista should have been (Vista 2.0, if you will).

He should give up on Vista and if the old machine someday gets up and running there would always be Linux or a newer OS from Microsoft!

Or put that drive back in the old machine and just run it as a Vista machine (perhaps as a backup machine), or as you noted, experiment with Linux, always a good learning experience. As for a future OS from Microsoft, probably not a good option. Part of XP's bad rap came from Microsoft's desire to please customers who wanted XP to support their legacy (old) hardware and software. Sounds good, but old stuff (especially pre-XP stuff) is typically less secure. So while Microsoft was successful in making XP support legacy stuff, that left XP less secure for which Microsoft was bashed relentlessly for the next 10+ years (even though it was bad guys who created the security mess, not MS).

So MS, tired of being bashed for something not their fault, has vowed to put security first and not legacy support and I applaud them for that. Windows 7 was designed to support current and future hardware and software and not old hardware and software. Windows 8 and future offerings will do the same, so it is likely that old Vista hardware will not be supported by future MS operating systems - that is, the makers of that old (obsolete and no longer in production) hardware may not create drivers (expend resources with zero returns) for future operating systems. They would rather you buy their new hardware that comes with new drivers.

And I am okay with that because, being a hardware guy knowing and appreciating that advances in hardware technologies continue to advance the state-of-the-art, I will want an OS that can take advantage of those latest hardware technologies - even it means retiring some older, but perfectly functioning hardware.

[oviedo7]

Well yeah there will always be the danger of corrupting stuff when messing with the partitions. I was merely interested in knowing whether partitioning through Win 7 was different from earlier Windows versions.

The Vista PC came with Vista pre-installed without any install discs. It started crashing randomly and now only stays on for minutes every time we boot it. We tested the ram and power supply, all in vain though and he bought a new PC. He thinks that he would someday find a mobo replacement since we think this is the issue and return the hdd and have it running vista again or update that vista to 7. That's why he's a bit reluctant to give the vista installation the pink slip. Would have been great had we had the option to delete vista now and should the old PC be fixed and needed we could just put the hdd back and re-install it. I hate the fact that new PC's often aren't accompanied with an install disc for the OS. If the hdd crashes it would be a good thing.

Is there any way we could do this with the repair disc we created ourselves and the recovery partition?

[Digerati]

I hate the fact that new PC's often aren't accompanied with an install disc for the OS

Well, that's what buyers get when they buy from a big maker - it certainly is not Microsoft's fault. I also note in most cases, new users are given the option to create, or buy at a minimal cost, installation disks. But sadly most users don't do that.

Just another reason I build my own systems.

If he is that worried, I recommend he pull that drive, return it to the Vista machine and leave it there - and forget about having it in Windows 7 machine.

[oviedo7]

Well, that's what buyers get when they buy from a big maker - it certainly is not Microsoft's fault. I also note in most cases, new users are given the option to create, or buy at a minimal cost, installation disks. But sadly most users don't do that.

Microsoft's fault or not, I still feel it's a mistake not providing buyers with an install disc. In my opinion it's should be mandatory - whether it comes complete in the package or the buyer could download or burn it from the PC themselves...

In this situation we were never given the option to make an install disc nor was the PC shipped with one. Back when my friend purchased the PC I made a "Recovery disc" through Windows and that's all we could do. On top of that we got the recovery partition, but I believe that's only usable if Windows Vista is still installed and only damaged or in need of a "light" re-install. We would have loved the option to format and delete Windows and then later on perhaps re-install it - either through a disc or through the Recovery partition... Possible?

[Digerati]

Microsoft's fault or not, I still feel it's a mistake not providing buyers with an install disc.

Well, I agree it is a mistake. I think the buyer of every computer should be provided two disks with every computer, the OS, and the drivers disk. But sadly, there are many users who fail to keep track of those disks so they get lost. Or they fail to provide the disks (like they should) when they give away or sell the computer.

In my opinion it's should be mandatory - whether it comes complete in the package or the buyer could download or burn it from the PC themselves...

It already is. If they don't provide the disks, they must provide a recovery partition on the hard drive, or provide a method of creating recovery disks. But you cannot make it mandatory users to do this when they first buy their computer. And that's really where the problem is. People skip that and wait until they need the disks before doing anything about it - then it is too late.

While you were never "given" the option, it was there. But sadly, the computer maker apparently failed make it something obvious in need of being done.

Note that computer makers like Dell, HP, Acer, etc. got the message from disgruntled users tying up their support lines, refusing to buy from them again. So new computers do come with disks, provide a way to order disks, or lead the new users to create the necessary disks.

[oviedo7]

Some of the responsibility definitely lies with the consumers as well.

About those recovery discs and recovery partition - what can we use them for? As in - could we wipe the Vista and use the recovery partition to get it back? Or the recovery discs to do so?

Or are these 2 tools only usable when Vista is still installed and then perhaps corrupted, or just in need for a reinstall?

[Digerati]

About those recovery discs and recovery partition - what can we use them for? As in - could we wipe the Vista and use the recovery partition to get it back? Or the recovery discs to do so?

Or are these 2 tools only usable when Vista is still installed and then perhaps corrupted, or just in need for a reinstall?

It all depends on the computer maker and how the disks were created. Notebooks use recovery partitions a lot and typically require the user to press a special F key, or key combination to cause the computer to boot to the recovery partition or disk. From there, the recovery process overwrites the main boot disk, taking the system back to factory (or when the disks were created) configuration.

The problem with recovery partitions is they are located on the same disk with the main boot partition. So in the even the actual hard drive fails, all the partitions on that disk are lost. Therefore, even with recovery partitions, you need recovery or installation disks too to ensure you are covered in all scenarios.

[oviedo7]

The problem with recovery partitions is they are located on the same disk with the main boot partition. So in the even the actual hard drive fails, all the partitions on that disk are lost. Therefore, even with recovery partitions, you need recovery or installation disks too to ensure you are covered in all scenarios.

Yeah in the event of the hard drive failing a recovery partition would no much good.

The computer in question is an eMachines - I don't have much experience with that make. However we've got a so-called "Recovery disc" created through Vista. I have found description as such about which events in which the disc can prove useful...?

[Digerati]

The computer in question is an eMachines

Well, understand that eMachines is the entry level, bargain basement, budget line from Acer. So, I personally would not put much faith in the hardware, and would ensure I had a good backup program in use.

I have found description as such about which events in which the disc can prove useful...?

I see the question mark, but don't see a question.

[oviedo7]

Yeah it might not be the must durable hardware you would find in one of those machines... I guess you shouldn't always expect your PC to last too many years. Especially not with a bargain make.

I see the question mark, but don't see a question.

Oh... Uhm... I was meaning to say I haven't found any description about what the recovery discs could be used for. As in - would they be of any help trying to re-install Vista after it being deleted? Or could the "Recovery partition" do this? I'm suspecting there might not be a final answer to this, since I might depend? - Right?

Well, to some extent I see my friends point about having it. Then again as I tell him the eMachines might not be worth too much hard work and spending to bring back to life. A replacement mobo might be too much to sacrifice and since the PC is already some years old a replacement might also be hard to find. Also my friend would need a video card as well since Vista was dead slow on that old computer (I think the combo of only onboard video card and Vista will result in lack of speed)...