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Possible Motherboard failure?


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#16
Brickstin

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Hi Brickstin, have you inspected the capacitors around the cpu & by the dimm slots. Are any of them bulging at the top or do they appear to be oozing electro from the base. I have been replacing faulty / bad capacitors for some time & it is surprising the unusual faults they cause. A good site / forum to check out is BADCAPS. net. Hope this may be of interest.




Some of the caps behind the processor seemed a little unflat.. Like the surfaces of the caps are flated. and its the new ones that are like NHOC or whatever its called.. the hazard compliance thing that restrics the use of hazardest chemicals and such..

anyways.. they werent entirely flat like when I first saw them.. but they hardly are raised at all.. I think those caps may still be bad considering.. I forgot to remove the down draft cover on the heatsink.. this is a horizontal heat sink and it blows the heat towards the back of the case. It's not one of those vertical fan blow downers that push cool air downwards to the processor that sits on the mobo socket.


There was this fin that was pushing hot air downwards towards the caps.. and I think that raised the *Cs .. much higher then those caps could tolorate... so I think it cooked them over the years... I have removed this fin and the CPU actually cools a lot better now and the mobo at that area isn't super hot anymore.

Its the yellow caps here behind the P4 Socket

http://img21.otofotk...76986suchal.jpg

Thanks for the info Ima check out that badcaps net site. :)





P.S : I tested the old board outside of the case.. no hookups just ram and CPU with cooler ect.

Case fan senser went bad thats what.. it wont return the fan sensor signal to fan and cycle through it.

So it's the little sensor chip on the motherboard that went bad.

IF that went bad then it's safe to believe the rest of the board is starting to go bad/ is already bad.



Also the voltage regulator chip that controls the voltage output to the case fan is bad also. With out that thing when connecting a fan to the power source : even tried just a basic non speed sensor fan with no sensor in it, connected it to the Case plug on the mobo, fan just jerked very weakly and didn't even rotate.. The power just died to a measely 2.7 Volts from 12 Volts.



Edited by Brickstin, 23 August 2012 - 01:21 PM.

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#17
deggitt

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Hi Brickstin, the caps look like Panasonic caps - good make . You are prob. right about cooking them . The slight bulge indicates that they should be replace, all the ones near the cpu. will have been hit . They control the cpu voltage & with the voltage spiking etc. it will produce many wierd & wonderful faults. If you do check out the Badcaps forum, ( with your knowledge of servicing comps ) you will realise what unusual faults faulty caps produce. Good knowledge & worth the practice on your faulty board.

Have fun....
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#18
Brickstin

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Dear God.. After replacing the motherboard I haven't seen any odd problems with the hard drives getting errors anymore.. But.. you know what?... I am getting that dreaded message again...


I just.. don't understand it. I can't point it out at all.. I am soo confused..


The device 'ST3300622AS' (IDE\DiskST3300622AS_____________________________3.AAD___\5&256b5878&0&0.0.0) disappeared from the system without first being prepared for removal.


ID Event : 12

--------------------------------------------

Event ID; 12 again


The device 'Secondary IDE Channel' (PCIIDE\IDEChannel\4&1033e3e0&0&1) disappeared from the system without first being prepared for removal.

But there is no major drive corruption on this system. Partitions are still in good order... I can't figure out why it is still doing this: this is an entirely new motherboard that I just put in.. Why would the system still be loosing the Secondary Channel?

Mind you that the ST3300622AS 300 Sata is on the Secondary Channel on the Sata connector on the motherboard..

80 GB WD sata on primary Channel Sata connector Mobo.

Hitachi HD 40GB is attached to IDE cable on IDE 2 Secondary connector (First IDE connector on ribbon); not the second connector at the other end of the ribbin cable.

Mind you all new Sata connectors are installed.

THere is no jumper diagram on the hitachi Hard drive.. but I think its set to Cable select.. ..

Is the Hitachi doing this..?

Because it seems to only do this when the Hitachi is connected to that Ribbin cable... on the first IDE connector.. Is it a bad cable?... or still a power supply issue? Mind you I still have the old Power supply. I haven't had the time to get a new one nor the funds.

I am going to go ahead and switch out that one ribbon cable and see if this will stop doing that.. Re attach the Hitachi ... All Advice is dearly welcomed and I thank you all in advance..

I'm really getting stumped on this situation.

Also I had a Seagate 1.5 TB external connected to the Back USB hub on Tower.

Edited by Brickstin, 26 August 2012 - 06:41 AM.

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#19
rshaffer61

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Post 5 shows the below:

Checking file system on \DosDevices\C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is IBM_PRELOAD.

The volume is dirty.
The attribute of type 0x80 and instance tag 0x0 in file 0x9
has allocated length of 0x2cb000 instead of 0x2cc000.


I there for ask you do the below.




Check and see if the hard drive is dirty. Please click on START-->RUN and type cmd. In the new window that appears, type fsutil dirty query c: and hit ENTER. If what appears on the screen says Volume - c: IS Dirty, then please do the following:

Please check the following before proceeding:
  • If you have Spyware Doctor installed, uninstall it.
  • If you have ZoneAlarm installed, open it, click the "Overview" tab, then select "Preferences", and UNcheck the "Protect ZA Client" check box.
Click Start, then Run, type cmd in the Open box and click "Ok". At the prompt in the Command window, type the following commands, pressing "Enter" after each one:

Substitute the drive letter for the drive your want to check for the ? in the following commands. Please note the spaces.
  • chkntfs /d ..... (This will reset autocheck options to default...will come back invalid on some installations)
  • chkntfs /c ?: ..... (This will allow checking the specified drive )
  • chkntfs /x ?: ..... (The x switch tells Windows to NOT check the specified drive on the next boot)
At this point, restart your computer, it will not do a chkdsk and will boot directly to Windows.

This next step is important as this is where the Dirty Bit will be unset.

Substitute the drive letter for the drive your want to check for the ? in the following commands.

Click Start, then Run, type cmd in the Open box and click "Ok". At the command prompt, type the following, pressing "Enter" after each one: (Again, note the spaces.)
  • chkdsk /f /r ?: ..... (To manually run a full chkdsk operation on the specified drive)
  • Y ..... (To accept having it run on the next boot)
This should take you through 5 stages of the scan and will unset the Dirty Bit. Be patient...this is a very thorough check and will take quite a while.

Finally, when the chkdsk operation has completed, type fsutil dirty query ?:, press "Enter", and Windows will confirm that the Dirty Bit is not set on that drive.

Reboot again and see if chkdsk still runs on startup. If the machine boots back up to the command prompt, type exit and press "Enter"...it should boot to Windows.
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#20
Brickstin

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Check and see if the hard drive is dirty.





Unfortunately I had formated that C Drive that was messed up so badly; The motherboard had messed up that MBR as well and I backed up the datea out of it.. Then just re formated.

So an entire new MBR and partition table has been installed.

But.. I still will use this method to check all other drives.

I actually learned something today I never knew about this tool through the CMD.

Thank you greatly for this :)
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#21
rshaffer61

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Dirty bit is not a hd issue but a memory issue. It means the memory did not haven enough time to clear before the system rebooted.
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#22
Brickstin

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Dirty bit is not a hd issue but a memory issue. It means the memory did not haven enough time to clear before the system rebooted.



is there a way to fix that? this motherboard doesn't have any timers to configure or anything; perhaps a way to delay the shut down?


Would that give it enough time to allow the memory to flush?

I guess maybe I could just shut down from now on and then just power back up.. I think there is a config in the system templates in the Manage computer area.. Those polices could be changed to put a delay on a shut down right?

Correct me if I am wrong.


I also remember seeing a power shut down switch in that Group Police, states that instead of auto powering down after Windows logs out fully and saves all data, it gives the user the option to just press the power butten when the "Safe to turn off PC" display comes on.
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#23
rshaffer61

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Post 19 has the instructions for checking and if needed correcting the dirty bit issue. I would suggest checking any hd you have installed which is as simple as changing the drive letter where ever it says the C drive. Replace it with the drive letter you are having the issue with.
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#24
Brickstin

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It.. did it again.. now im more worried.. the failure relocated... How in the heck?




The device 'WDC WD800JD-60LSA5' (IDE\DiskWDC_WD800JD-60LSA5______________________10.01E03\5&12b1a7d3&0&0.0.0) disappeared from the system without first being prepared for removal.

The device 'Primary IDE Channel' (PCIIDE\IDEChannel\4&1033e3e0&0&0) disappeared from the system without first being prepared for removal.


First it was the Secondary IDE that was vanishing..... now its the Primary..? What in Heck is going on... x.x


I don't get it.. this is like a brand new Mother board.... x.x

Edited by Brickstin, 27 August 2012 - 09:12 PM.

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#25
rshaffer61

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Have you run the instructions I posted on post 19 to check the memory for a dirty but? If so what was the result of the first part with the query?
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#26
Macboatmaster

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Also unless I have misread something and I have not had time to read it all - eg every post
as it is a new motherboard or nearly new

Because it seems to only do this when the Hitachi is connected to that Ribbin cable... on the first IDE connector.. Is it a bad cable?... or still a power supply issue? Mind you I still have the old Power supply. I haven't had the time to get a new one nor the funds.


| would tend to think I would check that power supply

as I seem to remember that you said earlier that it did not happen with another power supply connected.

I also think I would try it with just the system drive which I seem to remember you said was on one of the WD drives - connected SATA, and then connect the other drives one at a time, until it occurs.

On many motherboards, two sata ports are controlled by one driver and two by another such as an Intel driver and a Marvell driver.

I would think it is also worth going to the motherboard site and checking that

However from what I have read I still feel that the power supply is suspect number one.

Have you checked what the demand is, for all you have and what the rated wattage of the power supply is and INDEED the amps available on the 12 v rail
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#27
Brickstin

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Also unless I have misread something and I have not had time to read it all - eg every post
as it is a new motherboard or nearly new

as I seem to remember that you said earlier that it did not happen with another power supply connected.

.. I think you was talking about the other PC i was working with.. A client of mine was having a problem where the HD was getting errors and such. They had two Drives connected from what I remember.. and one of them kept dissapearing form the system. we swapped out the Power supply and it stopped. But I just wanted to let you know..
I just put in a different power supply thats good, old Supply was 450 Watts

new one I got now is 480 watts..

The devices connected are nothing mearly then just a cheap video card that only takes probably a few watts as it runs off the South Bridge AGP connector.

The C Drive that was originally in place was a western digital 80GB... But I already formated that drive as the os was completely trashed because of the strange issue with all the drives getting errors on it simultaniously.

the only drive that is C: and has an OS is the Hitachi 40GB.

I have got at least maybe 100 watts to play with that is free in the system

Im trying to remember if there is a program that detects how much wattage is being drawn with all the system parts connected to it.

im trying to look for this program that i think may have had it to check the powersupply.



no I haven't checked the demand for the power yet.. I am going to have to pull this Power supply out again.. and check the specs on this thing..

As far as the motherboard.. This is what i dont get... ssee...



Originally the old VERY OLD PSU that came with this computer.. only put out a 250Watt... that was it... and I already had the WD80GB sata.. the 300GB .. sata.. and a IDE 80GB.... And a cheap low power usage gForce 6200 AGP..

So.. I just don't get it LOL ... it nevr gave me this problem before.. And I don't remember the HItachi having strange problems like this before when I hooked it up to the system to pull a Image copy off it to repair a windows OS ..


Then again I rarely used the HItachi at all.. I just cloned it.. put the image into the WD80GB Sata.. and ran it off there.. So the Hitachi was never connected long enough to where I would have noticed these odd errors popping up in the event about the primary or Secondary vanishing from the system that deals with the Satas.

Im going to find out what the stuff is for the rating.. And Its going to be very difficult to find specifications for Old hard drives. .that I can barely find even on the company websites anymore from seagate and Western digital..

Edited by Brickstin, 29 August 2012 - 07:17 PM.

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#28
Brickstin

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Have you run the instructions I posted on post 19 to check the memory for a dirty but? If so what was the result of the first part with the query?



I am going to try and get this test done tonight.

I'll let you know.
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#29
Brickstin

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Im letting you guys know that I am still here... x.x I must say I am sorry as I have been very busy with life's business and personal.


I also wanted to say thank you for all your help:

I wanted to tell you something too So far no devices have been vanishing from the system.

The dirty bit test I have yet to get to do: as soon as I get some time I will test that memory when I can.

Sincerely,
Erick.
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#30
rshaffer61

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Thanks for the update and we completely understand life taking a step ahead of everything. We will continue to monitor for your next update. :thumbsup:
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