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New computer, need advice


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#1
Sienar

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Hello!

Really thinking about buying this computer, it has peeked my interest for a while. Really could use some advice since I know almost nothing about computer hardware at all.


CPU
Model Intel Core i5 3570K
Speed 3.4 GHz

Motherboard
MSI Z77A-S03 INET EDITION ATX
Processor Socket: Intel 1155

GPU
Model: GTX 670
Memory: 2 GB

Memory
Size: 8GB
Memory: DDR3
Speed: 1600 MHz

Computer Enclosure: Cooler Master Elite 430 Black
Optical drive: DVD ± RW Samsung 24X DL Black

Harddrive
SSD 120 GB

Power
Effect: 500 W
Modular: No

Price 975 euro or 1 288 USD. (Live in northen europe so I suppose the prices will be a lot different from US ones). Package doesn't include a normal HDD so thinking about buying that as well or using my already existing external. Same goes for OS.

Going to build it on my own(for the first time!) but buy it as a package.


Is it priceworthy? Anything I should change?

It's mostly to play games. Right now the focus would be to get Arma 3 running with the Oculus Rift, preferably at 60 fps at at least somewhat high settings. My focus has always been on FPS and not on graphic fidelity.

I think it is the pricepoint I wanna go for, but I also want the computer to last. Want to hit that sweatspot when you get the most for the money you spend. Not buying the newest things and getting things right after their prices drops, kinda.


Thanks a lot in advance!

EDIT: One thing I also wonder a lot about is how the next console generation is going to affect the hardware since it's all AMD and if getting AMD GPUs and CPUs might be a better option in the long run. Or just switching to 8 cores since that's what both X-One and PS4 has and I guess it's likely that that would change how games are optimized. http://www.pcgamer.c...fect-pc-gamers/

Edited by Sienar, 04 September 2013 - 05:58 PM.

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#2
iammykyl

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Gday Sienar, Posted Image.
for a package deal, a good list of parts except would question the PSU, please see if you can find more details, or a link to the site with the deal.
It would be cheaper to buy the parts and build yourself, it is not hard and we can supply a build tutorial and help as well.

Regarding you existing OS. If it is a full retail version, you can use it on the new build, but must remove it from the existing computer. If it is an OEM version, it is tied to the first motherboard it is installed on and is not transferable to a new build.

Please let us know the country you live in? We can then put a parts/price list together for you to consider.




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#3
Sienar

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Thanks a lot for the very friendly and helpful message! :) I already feel very welcome!

Here is the deal: http://www.inet.se/p...-september-2013
Or if that link doesn't work: http://www.inet.se/k...9450/2013-09-05

It is a package but it comes in pieces so I still assemble it on my own.


My Existing OS is Vista Home Premium 32MB, so I think that is probably not enough for a new computer these days(although I know almost nothing about the difference between OSes).

I live in Sweden. If you want to put together a list of computer components, that would be amazing! As I said, I am looking for a computer that is very priceworthy and should last for a while with a focus on gaming. Hopefully not for a bigger pricepoint than somewhere between 900-1000 euros, but if I could get a more priceworthy deal higher up I would definitely consider it.

Edited by Sienar, 05 September 2013 - 11:30 AM.

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#4
phillpower2

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Hello Sienar

If I may chime in while iammykyl is offline :)

First of all I concur with our colleague about the PSU and OS details and second if you can - hold off until your budget will allow for you to purchase a 64-bit OS disk such as Windows 7 or Windows 8.

A list of items that I have recently purchased (but still not built yet :whistling: ) see Here, the cost equates to around 998.04 euros without an OS.
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#5
Sienar

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Well, according to my own terrible knowledge of hardware, that seems like a good build! Although it seems some of the components can't be bought in Sweden(although most of them have a valid and rather cheap replacement). Would there be any problems with shipping it in these cases? Maybe easier to use Swedish stores in case of warranty for example?

I'm wondering, over here I can get the i5 4670k for exactly the same price as the i5-3570 so is there really any reason to get the second one?

Also, GTX 760 appears to be almost exactly the same as the 670 so I suppose that is a safe bet since it's much cheaper. However, noticed 760 was 246 eur, 680 was 318 eur and 770 353 eur. Do you think that price difference is worth the extra power you get?

Also, I think I'm skipping the DVD writer. The one I got on my current computer has been broke for like 3-4 years and I only really missed it for the first few month until I realized that I could get most stuff digitally. I'm also thinking about if the SSD is worth it or if it's better to spend the money on the GPU?

Once again, thanks a lot for the help. These few recent days I have learned so many new things about hardware but I am still utterly confused about it. :P

Edited by Sienar, 05 September 2013 - 03:19 PM.

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#6
phillpower2

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Check out the Amazon shipping costs Here

I'm wondering, over here I can get the i5 4670k for exactly the same price as the i5-3570 so is there really any reason to get the second one?

No, I chose the CPU that I did because of the lower power consumption and because I do not overclock my hardware.

Also, GTX 760 appears to be almost exactly the same as the 670 so I suppose that is a safe bet since it's much cheaper. However, noticed 760 was 246 eur, 680 was 318 eur and 770 353 eur. Do you think that price difference is worth the extra power you get?

No I would not pay so much more for so little of a gain.

Also, I think I'm skipping the DVD writer. The one I got on my current computer has been broke for like 3-4 years and I only really missed it for the first few month until I realized that I could get most stuff digitally.

They cost so little and make installing an OS so easy.

I'm also thinking about if the SSD is worth it or if it's better to spend the money on the GPU?

SSD devices are great for faster boot up times but other than that it is a matter of personal preference, if you do not select an SSD then obviously you will have more cash for a more expensive GPU.

You are welcome BTW :thumbsup:
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#7
Sienar

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Shipping costs seems to be high enough that it's probably worth it to just buy it in Sweden. The only part I cannot find so far is actually the motherboard, which might just have to do with naming inconsistencies. I find Asus P8Z77-V, Asus P8Z77-V LX, Asus P8Z77-V Pro, etc. Big difference in price between the LX and Pro btw.

I think lower power consumption is very good in general and I don't overclock my hardware either, at least not so far. Only difference I found between them was the latest one had AVX2 support, which I have no idea what it does even though I looked it up. Worth that extra power consumption? I did notice that Rome 2 uses DRA which can only be accessed through the "Haswell" line and some sites seems to state the numbers of games supporting it is likely to increase and that you could get major performance boosts, but I have no idea if I understood it correctly.

Thanks for the GPU advice, exactly the kind of price point advice I am looking for!

True, very cheap. I'll think about it. ;)

I don't think boot times have ever been a huge problem for me, especially since most games I play boot up and then it's streamed. I think I'll hold of on SSDs now, seems to be easy to get into the computer later if I change my mind(?). If I would upgrade from the GTX 760, which card do you think I should upgrade to? Using the same principle of priceworthyness. Easier to decide when you have fewer choices out of all the graphic cards out there. I could definitely increase my target price if the increase in performance really makes it worth it.

Edited by Sienar, 05 September 2013 - 05:12 PM.

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#8
iammykyl

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Gday all.
Many thanks Phillpower2 for stepping in with your suggestions. Posted Image
I have configured a slightly different build. As there are a number of games utilizing Hyper Threading and for overall performance, gone Haswell, i7 4770K.
Stayed with 760 gpu,agree not worth the extra to go higher. Gone for Antec latest case with fan control. > http://www.antec.com...394&fid=5022074
No SSD, add later.

Prices still shown in US, but click on the country location window, top right, will give an idea of the Euro prices.
> http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1AyJu

Prices on your Swedish Site, > click shopping cart. > http://www.inet.se/f...202].NumValMax=

If not successful, see attachment.





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#9
Sienar

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Once again, thanks a lot! I am starting to feel more and more secure about my soon to come purchase! :)

I'm wondering with going to the i7 instead of i5. The cost increase, at least in Sweden, is 126 USD. Most benchmarks I have seen the increase is mostly like 1-2 fps, if even that. When I searched for it it seems overall consensus is i5 for gaming only and i7 if you wanna record. Some say that it is a more secure option for the future while some say it's better to just buy a new processor by that point in time.

My final question would be if you know if the Oculus would make extra requirements on the computer, showing two screens at one time and what computer component would be used for that?

I sure wish I could buy those components in the US, it's basically 30% cheaper! But I suppose with the added shipping costs and "harder to use" warranty makes it not worth it?


Otherwise though, I feel like that's the build I wanna go for! :) And that makes me very happy after thinking about buying a new comp for a long long time.

Edited by Sienar, 06 September 2013 - 07:18 AM.

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#10
iammykyl

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Gday.

When I searched for it it seems overall consensus is i5 for gaming



It is very hard to find much verabiable prooof, I do do a lot or research, but after reading the following article, I am going to agree with you.
> http://www.techbuyer...m/CPUgaming.php

As this is mostly a gaming build, we should now look at whether you wish to go for a i5 CPU, K or not. I would still stick with the Haswell.

My final question would be if you know if the Oculus would make extra requirements on the computer,



Sorry, do not understand your question. Was Oculus a typo? or something in translation.
I have some Swedish friends who say flutterby for butterfly, they say that's the correct translation, though they could be pulling my leg.
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#11
Sienar

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Interestingly enough, that article almost made me want the i7 more, considering the end notes and how much it has increased performance on older CPUs. The fact that new consoles will use 8 cores will almost definitely force the gaming scene to quickly start optimizing towards that instead of 4 cores like today. This is all bases on what I have learned over the past few days on maybe just the last few hours though so once again I could be misunderstanding the whole thing. Even so.. a 31% increase in price might not be worth the offchance of it being great in the future when the CPU might already be very old.. gah.. decisions. I have been considering doing some recording though.

As far as K or not is concerned, there is no price difference. Other than that I have no real idea of the differences, other than that I read the K is better for overclocking. Since I have not overclocked in the past, I don't see myself doing it in the future. That is mostly because I have been afraid of damaging my computer long term though and lack of general knowledge so if the benefits are there without too much risk I suppose I am likely to use it.


With the Oculus, I mean the Oculus Rift http://en.wikipedia....iki/Oculus_Rift Since it is essentially 2 screens that adds the 3D effect I am mostly asking if that should affect my choice of hardware, or, just out of interest, what piece of hardware that affects. It's a minor note though and probably won't affect my purchase unless it makes a huge difference which I doubt.

Found that I could get a Vengeance of 8GB for almost the exact same price as 2x4GB. Might be minor, but would it be better to get the 8GB opening up for more memory slots in the future?

Also, one more question, going with a new operating system, I am wondering if there is any real advantages going Windows 8 over Windows 7? I am very used to the old interface of Windows and quite like it, tried Windows 8 on another comp and became a bit frustrated with it. At the same time I hear the support Windows 8 is likely to get since it's the latest Windows OS might make it a lot better in long run.

Also, the Swedish word for buttefly is fjäril! Ä in this context sounds womewhat similar to e in "well".

Edited by Sienar, 06 September 2013 - 10:11 AM.

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#12
phillpower2

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You are most welcome iammykyl :thumbsup:

Nice list of parts that you have suggested for Sienar :)
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#13
iammykyl

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Gday.

a 31% increase in price might not be worth the offchance of it being great in the future when the CPU might already be very old.. gah.. decisions. I have been considering doing some recording though


Yes, by the time you really need more cores it would probable be time to upgrade parts and as for recording/manupualting video and music for a home enthusiast, more RAM would be a better bang for the buck.


As far as K or not is concerned, there is no price difference.


Then I would definatley go for K. Overclocking with the features on the MB is easy and pretty safe even using the stock cooler.


Found that I could get a Vengeance of 8GB for almost the exact same price as 2x4GB. Might be minor, but would it be better to get the 8GB opening up for more memory slots in the future?


I would caution against a single stick of 8GB, should it fail, no computer. Adding another single stick, even though it is supposed to be identical, can cause issues as they are not "a matched pair"
2 x 4GB matched pair is better, one fails, you can remove it and still have a working computer. You could add more later (total 16GB) if you get into recording Which would be enough unless you are using something like Adobe's top end software.


Changing to a new OS is always a bit of a drama, you get so used to doing things in a particular manner.
Window7 is now mature and I can recommend it. I have turned off all the visual enhancements. Libraries seem to confuse many users, it helps if you think of them as glorified short cuts.
This machine has XP, which I still keep going back too, missed out Vista.
Windows 8.0 is now at 8.1, don't have, so you will need to read user reviews.


If you are happy with and decide to go with the proposed case, PSU and MB, you can download the User manuals from the manufacturers web sites to familiarize yourself with them.


Election results are just coming in, so will get back to you regarding Oculus Rift. I see no reason why it should make any difference to your hardware selection as you are above what is considered to be system requirement, although there is no official publication.








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#14
Sienar

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Alright guys, here it is, my new computer! :) http://www.inet.se/k...8532/2013-09-06

If there is no problems with it, I am likely to purchase it today and maybe the next message I write here will be on it instead of this one. ;) After that I'll send you digital flowers! ^^

EDIT: Just checked quickly on another techsite that's swedish to do that one extra check before ordering, especially since they know the swedish market. One person recommended the http://www.inet.se/p...-bronze-modular, since it was modular. Don't really know the difference, and it's less watts for the same money so don't know much about that. He also recommended a switch to this motherboard: http://www.inet.se/p.../asus-z87-a-atx, which is cheaper and according to him has more slots.

EDIT2: Now got another recommendation of MSI Z87-G45 GAMING ATX, which apperantly got better sound integrated.

In general though, right now I am obviously only nitpicking. Only reason I haven't purchased yet is because I won't get it until at least monday anyway and might as well go from making a 99,98% perfect computer to a 99,99% perfect computer.

EDIT3: A comparison of the 3 motherboards: http://www.inet.se/j...compare=1902506

Edited by Sienar, 07 September 2013 - 10:28 AM.

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#15
Sienar

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Alright, made a few customization and here it is: http://www.inet.se/k...3317/2013-09-08

Would love that extra feedback, but otherwise, I am most likely ordering it in a few hours or tomorrow.

Edited by Sienar, 07 September 2013 - 07:25 PM.

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