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Bad motherboard? How to tell?


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#16
Bluegrassdude

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ranchhand

The monitor is not completely black, it has the HP logo. There was a startup beep but now there is not. The computer is not under warrantly.  I went through all the steps with no change...black screen with HP logo, no key lock light on keyboard and no beeps except for removing the RAM. I removed each RAM card and tried them in each slot. All with no change. When I remove both RAM cards, I get an error beep sequence with a yellow flashing light at the power button. All subsequent test were done with the 4GB RAM card installed. The CMOS jumper was not near the battery but I found it and there was no effect with reset.  I disconnected each peripheral individually and then all of them with no effect. The capacitors all look ok. I disconnected the power to the mother board and tried a different power source from another computer that I have and it gave me the same thing. I do have another CPU to try. I have a AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800 CPU from another computer but don't know if that would be compatible with my system. It has an Intel i5 3330 CPU in it. I don't have any thermal paste so not sure I should try if it is compatible. I could always get some paste.

 

Phill

The graphics are Intel HD Integrated into the CPU, no extra card. I disable Norton 360 when I download and run Windows Defender then I delete Defender.


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#17
donetao

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Hey Bluegrassdude!

Mr. Phill is in UK! He will catch you tomorrow if his work permits it. :yes:

Don't know about ranchhand. He may be around.

PS Good stuff ranchhand and Mr. Phill! :yes:


Edited by donetao, 10 August 2014 - 09:28 PM.

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#18
Bluegrassdude

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Donetao

I also made the seagate tools disc you suggested.  No luck. The media drive turns and the green light flashes but no effect.

thanks


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#19
donetao

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Donetao

I also made the seagate tools disc you suggested.  No luck. The media drive turns and the green light flashes but no effect.

thanks

Hello!

I'm going to let the experts advise. The seatools disc is a live CD. If you have your boot options set to boot from DVD/CD first, then your PC should boot from the that CD.

Maybe if the HD is toasted, you won't be able to boot with it????

Do you have another HD you could test with????

Remove the HD and see if you can POST!


Edited by donetao, 10 August 2014 - 09:55 PM.

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#20
donetao

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Hello!

You do not need a working HD to run this! This is a live Linux CD that will boot. It works with your RAM.

Burn the Lucid Puppy Love to a CD.

http://puppylinux.or...est Release.htm


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#21
ranchhand3

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Hello BGDude,

I'm back. Thanks for your patience.

You said:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800 CPU from another computer but don't know if that would be compatible

AMD and Intel are not compatible; when building, the decision is either an AMD mobo or an Intel mobo.

 

Ok, so let's review what we have done up to present:

>Reset the BIOS.

>Checked for bad caps, results were negative.

>Ran Seagate Sea Tools, and as I predicted, it would not run. Just to double-check, run that disk on any other computer just to verify that the disk is a good burn. Just FYI, if there was no hard drive or a failed HD, Seagate would post an error message, not just go black. If the hard drive were bad/corrupted, you would get the BIOS-generated message, "Insert Boot Disk To Begin Operating System Installation" or words to that effect. You get blank. I think we can rule out the hard drive as a cause.

>Swapped the power supply, results were negative, so we can rule the PS out as a cause.

>Bad memory is not going to cause this type of problem.

>So, we have left, CPU and Motherboard.

Percentage wise, very rarely will a CPU fail. In all my years in IT and building I have had only one CPU fail, and that is very unusual. However, motherboards fail constantly. HP uses a lot of Foxconn motherboards and that is what you have. Foxconn is one of the most undependable, junk boards made. They are a commercial jobber who manufacture cheap boards for large retailers such as HP, Dell, etc. and have one of the worst reputations in the industry for dependability, and their customer service is totally useless. Most of the failed boards that come over my bench are failed Foxconns from older HP and Dell units.

 

So at this point I think your problem is with the mobo.

 

Can you access the BIOS on your computer? I don't remember if you tried that or not. Usually you do this by tapping one of the F keys as soon as you press the power button. I don't think that will work, but let's try it anyway. Another test: you need a wired laser mouse for this (not a wireless mouse). Turn the mouse over, and does the small laser bulb flash on when you plug the mouse into various USB ports? Try these two things and post back.


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#22
Bluegrassdude

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I cannot access the BIOS. None of the USB ports seem to have juice. I have tried wired and wireless keyboards in all 6 with no luck. The numbers lock light does not light when the key is pressed. The wired mouse does not light up. The keyboards and mice work on other computers. I also tried several flash drives that have lights and none would light up when inserted with PC powered up. I will get a new motherboard and try that.

I would like to upgrade the PSU and add a mid range GPU and a fan with some lights for my son. We plan to use the rig for light gaming and general home computing/internet surfing, music management and still and video image management and mid-level editing. Should I upgrade the CPU (current is i5 3330)? Suggestions on a motherboard and GPU?

Thanks
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#23
ranchhand3

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It appears that your motherboard has failed. With no way to test your processor that is the most likely of the choices.

When purchasing a new mobo, keep the following specs in mind:

> You run an Intel socket LGA 1155, so that is what your present processor will mount to. Any other, it will not mount. Make sure the mobo has that socket.

> You are running PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600) memory according to your post, so if you want to add on that is what you will need. It doesn't hurt to check the mobo's specs and verify that is what it accepts since you will want to use    your existing memory.

> Make sure you have several USB3 ports; some of these manufacturers are still supplying USB2 ports (which really irritates me).

> If you want to use integrated video on the mobo, make sure the processor specs include video integrated on the chip, and the board specifies integrated video is available if the chip has it; it may be that will be enough for your needs and save you the video card money. You can always add a card later if you want to. Just a thought.

> In your situation, I would check out Asrock motherboards; I have had good results with them and am running one now, in fact. Here is a listing at Newegg where I do all my purchasing. Also read the users' reviews on the board you may be interested in, they are extremely helpful.

That will get you started; please post back with any questions.

 

[EDIT]:  Just a last minute thought.... I assume that you will want to use your existing hard drive with the OS on it; before you connect your HD, set your BIOS back to factory defaults; sometimes the BIOS settings are skewed from testing at the factory so you want to avoid any problems by resetting. If you don't know how to do this check your motherboard manual. Now power up and check that the system recognizes your POST screen. You should get a BIOS/CMOS message to supply a system disk. Now you know that everything is working properly and the system recognizes the BIOS. Then power down and connect your HD and power up. Hopefully you will boot into Windows. However, you have a new mobo so it may hang. If it does this, post back for more help, I won't go into that to save thread length. You may have to re-register with Microsoft since you have a new motherboard, but that shouldn't be a problem, just have your key number ready.

After you boot into Windows, remember that you must install your motherboard, chipset, USB, Video and Audio drivers from the CD that came with the new mobo. And..... Do Not Lose That Disk. I can't begin to count the number of clients who lost their mobo drivers long ago, and now we have a project trying to find the proper ones a few years down the road.


Edited by ranchhand3, 12 August 2014 - 08:44 AM.

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#24
Bluegrassdude

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I am considering ASRock Z75 Pro3, ASRock Z77 Extreme3 and ASRock Z77 Extreme4.  Any others I should consider? Preference of the ASRocks?

 

Also considering GTX 750 ti. Others I should consider?

 

New PSU and some fans with lights.  Do you think these will fit in the HP case or should I look at another? I need to keep the 15 in 1 media card reader and audio jacks & USB 3 ports on the front.


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#25
ranchhand3

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BGDude, I'm going to pull a "quarterback sneak" on you and back away from the Asrock boards I recommended. I have read users' reviews extensively on Newegg and Amazon, and I don't like what I am seeing. There seem to be an inordinate number of complaints, not just on the boards you posted, but in general and not a lot of response from Asrock. I have not seen this before with Asrock (especially considering they are owned by Asus). Sometimes manufacturers go through a bad engineering, rough period and need some time to get the act together again. There are just too many complaints on both websites.

I suggest considering Asus. Here are some links.

> Newegg Asus listing page, LGA 1155 socket.  Note that there is a rebate policy on some of these.

> Asus P8Z77 looks good; for a low cost, medium performance board it has a nice selection of options, and good reviews.

> Asus P8B75 also looks pretty good, fair amount of features for low performance, low cost board, pretty decent reviews.

 

Just some general suggestions:

> Some of these boards may also be available at a local retailer if you prefer to go that route. Be sure to find the store's return policy on electronics before purchasing.

> I strongly suggest that you not order any "open box" or "refurb" listings, so read the listing carefully. Most online retailers consider these as having no warranty or return, "let the buyer beware" applies here.

> When you first receive the board (or anything else!) inspect it and the packaging carefully. If you see anything irregular or dodgy, damage or crushing, partially torn or plastic covering taped together, etc. telephone Newegg (or whoever) immediately and request a return. Sometimes (by accident I am sure :whistling: ) returns or refurbs accidentally get pulled by the stock people and sent out as new items. Do this before you cut the bar code out of the box, because then they may not accept it. Do not cut any bar codes until you have booted the new board and let it run a week. Then, when you send in the bar code for your rebate, staple it to whatever form they want you to fill out, and send it certified mail, return receipt requested so you have proof that they received it. I know this is an inconvenience, but these rebate things are undependable, and I really hate them.

 

Power Supply..... what PS do you currently have, and what is the wattage?

 

GTX 750 ti..... what is that? A video card? Which brand? I couldn't find that model # on the motherboard listing on Newegg.

 

>


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#26
Bluegrassdude

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Thanks for the heads up on the ASRocks boards.  The current PSU is an HP 300W.  The GTX 750 ti is a video card.  Here is a system I put together with my son.  He likes the case and all the lights and the ASUS P8Z77 could just drop in for the ASRocs board.  What do you think.  Hoping to only put about $400 so if I don't get 6 years, I guess thats ok.

 

http://pcpartpicker....de/saved/4cM48d

 

CPU Intel Core i5-3330 3.0GHz Quad-Core (Purchased) $0.00

CPU Cooler Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing $29.98

Motherboard ASRock Z75 Pro3 ATX LGA1155 $66.99

Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 (Purchased) $0.00

              Crucial Ballistix Sport 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 $35.99

Storage Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM (Purchased) $0.00

Video Card EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB $119.99

Case Zalman ZM-Z9 U3 (Black) ATX Mid Tower $69.58

Power Supply EVGA 500W ATX12V / EPS12V $29.99  Could do modular if easier build and better cable management

Optical Drive HP 447328-B21 DVD/CD Writer (Purchased) $0.00

Operating System Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) (Purchased) $0.00  Lots of people say I will need to buy another copy, why? If the copy I have is not being used.

Case Fan Cooler Master R4-L4S-10AB-GP 60.9 CFM 140mm $9.98

                 Cooler Master R4-L4S-10AB-GP 60.9 CFM 140mm $9.98

Custom Logisys 12" Cold Cathode Case Lights - 2 Piece (Blue) $9.89

WD MyBook 3 TB (Purchased) $0.00

 

Total $380.60

 

Thanks for all of your help and time.


Edited by Bluegrassdude, 13 August 2014 - 11:36 AM.

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#27
phillpower2

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Don`t wish to confuse the issue when ranchhand3 has everything under control but would just like to chime in with a couple of pointers;

 

ASUS MBs  :thumbsup:

 

OS

Unless your OS disk is the full retail edition you cannot use it with a new MB as an OEM disk or HP preinstalled OS is tied to the original MB it was paired with, to use an OEM disk/product key with a new MB is software piracy and therefore illegal.

 

Exceptions to the above are 1: If your MB is replaced under warranty and 2: If your MB is replaced out of warranty with an alternative type but same brand due to the original model no longer being available, an upgraded MB however will require the purchase of a new OS licence.

 

If you have a full retail disk and a product key that is not in use on another computer the OEM restriction/s is/are not the same.

 


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#28
ranchhand3

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Unless your OS disk is the full retail edition you cannot use it with a new MB as an OEM disk

@ phillpower: Good catch. I only use full retail disks & didn't think about it. I haven't bought a retail computer in years, I build all my own. The American consumer gets screwed again by big business with the blessing of our government. Alternate option: you can check out HP's website and see what they will charge you for a replacement board, if there is such a thing available. Maybe you can use your OEM disk then, according to Phillpower's post. If you should have to purchase, consider Windows 7/64 bit. Maybe less money (?) and every bit as good a system. Windows 8 has already been given the death sentence by Microsoft, and they are gearing up for their next price-gouge with Windows 9 soon. They have thrown 8 on the trash heap where it belonged in the first place. Just one man's opinion.

 

@BGDude: if you can financially hack it, I suggest the Asus P8Z77 . If you decide on the Asrock, realistically the odds of a good board are in your favor.  Your call.

> EVGA Vid Card: good card, for light to medium, maybe even some heavy gaming. As close as I can tell, the card should mount in the PCIe slot and leave your only PCIex1 slot still open for use. Let's hope. However, it may cover your BIOS battery which is a nuisance if you ever want to access it for some reason, although that's not a deal-killer. You really won't know until you get your board and card.

> Power Supply: You better rethink your choice. Read the users' reviews on Newegg, there are a lot of complaints. Since the vid card alone specs 300 watts, it's best to replace your power supply with more output. By the way, do not throw out your old one, it is a good PS. You never know when it will be handy for testing purposes or a quick repair down the road. Always nice to have a backup.

> For additional tips on building (not all may apply to you, but they are good for general troubleshooting also), I suggest reading the post Here.

> The rest of your parts look ok.


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#29
Bluegrassdude

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 Alternate option: you can check out HP's website and see what they will charge you for a replacement board, if there is such a thing available. Maybe you can use your OEM disk then, according to Phillpower's post. If you should have to purchase, consider Windows 7/64 bit. Maybe less money (?) and every bit as good a system. Windows 8 has already been given the death sentence by Microsoft, and they are gearing up for their next price-gouge with Windows 9 soon. They have thrown 8 on the trash heap where it belonged in the first place. Just one man's opinion.

I spent more than 2 hours on the phone originally with HP non-customer service and they couldn't even come up with the motherboard as a possible issue. Then they found out my computer was out of warranty and wanted to charge me for the phone help. I said no thank you then they said I could send it to them and they would fix for $300 minimum but could be more. The [bleep] thing only cost $450 with tax so again I said no thank you.  I have disliked 8 since I got the thing. In fact I called HP 3 days afte I had it to see if I could downgrade the OS to 7 or XP but they said that was not an option, however, I could return for a 20% restocking fee and get a 7 machine. This was the thrid computer and 5th HP device I have purchased from them but it was the last.

 

I will likely get the ASUS board but which one.  There are P8Z77-V LK, LE and LV models.  I figure in most of these Intel boards you will lose a slot or two with a video card with fan. I don't think that should be a problem unless I need to move the computer and need a wireless card but I could probably get by with USB wireless. And for the BIOS battery I have noticed that they end up under the video card as well.  The only good thing about the Foxconn board was the battery was in one corner by itself.

I will check into the power supply. I was also considering a couple simi modular Corsair PSUs, CX500M 500W ATX12V v2.3 SLI CrossFire 80 PLUS BRONZE or a CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE

 

Thanks guys for all of your help. Looking forward to getting this thing done and have a good time with my son putting it together.


Edited by Bluegrassdude, 13 August 2014 - 08:21 PM.

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#30
ranchhand3

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Great! Please let us know how it goes. If you have any questions at all, please post back, there are lots of folks here who are enthusiasts and will help you. And you are right....great Dad & son project, and the huge advantage is that you will not need HP to give you mis-advice any more, you will know your computer inside-out.


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