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upgrade old pc with a new HDD (Resolved).


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#1
percman

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A previous post I placed dealt with upgrading a 7 year old PC with more RAM and an SSD. Overall the upgrade went well and the system sped up dramatically. The only issue is stability. The well known "Video RF failure" BSOD happens completely at random, plus the Start menu stopped working on one profile and the Search on another. It also tends to restart randomly as well - no reason, just poof.

 

Another large issue is that in trying to back up my Blu Ray discs, each one takes between 8-11 hours (!!!). Add that to the random restart issue, and these types of backups are nearly impossible.

 

So the question is... can I retain:

 

the box (ATX Form Factor, multiple fans, 700 W power supply)

Blu Ray drive

SSD primary drive

secondary SATA regular drive

 

...and replace:

 

motherboard

processor

RAM

video card (needing CUDA capability)

 

I don't believe it would be as simple as getting everything in there and turning it on, or would it? My theory, to make this a clean process, is to dump anything important on to the backup drive, install Win 7 (full disk version) after the upgrade, shoot it up to Win 10, and reinstall all programs (a pain to be sure but fortunately I've only had 10 up for just a few months with this new config). The thought on the re-install of 10 is that it would be clean and possibly get rid of all these aggravating instability issues.

 

A question for the above process - would there be any problems? Would an install of Win 7 be problematic because it was already installed, a couple times, on the older version of the PC? I heard something about Windows being key coded to a motherboard - is that true? If that's the case then Win 10 from 7 would be impossible due to key issues because I would be kicked out of an install of 7? Or, would it be possible to start directly with 10 (for free) before the free period ends (I believe in August)? Isn't that only an upgrade though - if it isn't jumping from another Windows version it is NOT free even now, correct?

 

thanks for any help.

 


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#2
terry1966

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if the windows 7 disk is a retail disk as you say and it's only going to be installed on the 1 pc then no you shouldn't have any problems, a retail version can be installed on as many different pc's as you like just as long as it's only running on one and not installed on any other pc at the same time.

 

it's only oem versions of windows that are tied to the pc it was installed on and have a grey area (in my opinion) about replacing the motherboard/cpu combo and don't allow it, even though in the past i've done such a thing and microsoft said it was ok at that time.

 

as to upgrading it to windows 10, you shouldn't have a problem in my opinion but seeing how it's already been upgraded once on your current pc i can't guarantee they won't be funny about you upgrading it again on another pc, which is what it will be once you change the motherboard and cpu and might say you've had your 1 free upgrade so now you'll have to pay for win 10.

 

:popcorn:


Edited by terry1966, 12 March 2016 - 05:50 AM.

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#3
phillpower2

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Excuse the interjection folks  :)

 

the only issue is stability. The well known "Video RF failure" BSOD happens completely at random, plus the Start menu stopped working on one profile and the Search on another. It also tends to restart randomly as well - no reason, just poof.

 

 

You have both hardware and software issues going on percman  :(

 

Are you still using the same PSU as discussed in replies #2, #3 and #4 in your thread here if yes, I would start by only upgrading your video card and PSU to see if the random restarts persist, if they don`t you could then look at the problems that you are having with Windows 10, once the Windows etc issue/s have been resolved you can then create a back up image of what is on the SSD and avoid you needing to reinstall Windows 7 and upgrade to 10 again, this would avoid possible upgrade complications + save you time, trouble and cash.

 

 


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#4
percman

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I had trouble trying to solve "Windows (10) issues". The only way to get rid of them was starting an entirely new username, which in this case got rid of the Start Menu problem (for which I looked for any kind of help online and that was the only fix that didn't involve registry fixes, that I'm afraid of), and traded that issue for the broken Search problem. Hence my idea of starting with a clean new install on a wiped SSD with all program install files in a different location. Tedious but IMO the most effective way to (hopefully) get a clean basically new system that's MUCH faster.

 

As far as the motherboard/CPU/Ram/video card install, is it something that can be done by myself, or is it tricky? I've never done that kind of thing, just installed every component but. Does it require setting BIOS, other configuration procedures, etc? Best to leave that to a pro? And should the power supply, case, drives, etc. still be viable? The SSD and blu ray drive are brand new so I can't imagine them being a problem. The SSD could be re-formatted and partitioned via a connection to a laptop. Again I don't see any problems with the whole idea (minus the possible Windows key problems) but I wanted to ask some experts. Attach is pictures of the case, fans, etc.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20160313_142439.jpg
  • 20160313_142456.jpg

Edited by percman, 13 March 2016 - 02:29 PM.

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#5
phillpower2

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Understand your philosophy regarding a fresh installation and as long as you do not mind putting the work in it would make for a better performing system, do keep in mind the licence and upgrade guidance that terry advised you of.

 

As far as the motherboard/CPU/Ram/video card install, is it something that can be done by myself, or is it tricky? 

 

 

Pretty straightforward and we can provide you with information that will help.

 

Does it require setting BIOS, other configuration procedures, etc? 

 

 

Yes but again it is pretty straightforward and one of us will guide you through the process.

 

And should the power supply, case, drives, etc. still be viable?

 

 

I would say that the case and drives should be ok but you have not answered my question regarding the PSU, if that is the same 7 to 8 year old PSU from your previous thread then I would not use it anywhere near new hardware.


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#6
terry1966

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Hence my idea of starting with a clean new install on a wiped SSD with all program install files in a different location. Tedious but IMO the most effective way to (hopefully) get a clean basically new system that's MUCH faster.

just to add if you want to do a clean install without changing the motherboard and cpu because you've already updated win 7 to win 10 on that machine, you will now be able to do a clean install of win 10 without the need to install win 7 and then upgrade again.

 

more info here :- http://www.howtogeek...all-windows-10/

 

:popcorn:


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#7
percman

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Yeah it is still the old power supply. Is it because newer ones have a different way of providing power or something? One would think power is power but you believe it could be downright dangerous to newer components?

 

So what I'm looking for is pretty much a barebones without a case, basically. Looked for those kinds of deals on EBay but the best I could find was motherboard/processor/RAM combos, none with video card added in (PSU could easily just get separately). I know this is a very unusual search but does anyone know where one could possibly find combos with everything listed above, and at a non-ridiculous price? A site that one can piece together a system with very specific parts that work together well?  Again, it doesn't need to be a bleeding edge gamer, just a fast mid 2010's modern system that can run 2 monitors.

 

Terry, I had actually tried the jump drive way of the upgrade a while ago, and it never worked. Just stalled at the Windows logo and never came across with the swirly dots below. Let it go for more than 20 minutes. That's what led to the Win 7 then Win 10 route because of the fact I had the retail disk. I believe it's just the system being so old that it's confused on how to handle Win 10. There are times even when it is working fairly well that some routine tasks makes it stall and almost crash.. Plus the random crashes having to do with Nvidia cards (an issue that apparently is common based on my research, add that to fact the card is 8 years old and it probably doesn't help) are REALLY frustrating.

 

Thanks again all for the help! Does anyone have a link to a good article about installing a MB/system build etc. without having to dig through this whole forum? I'm thinking that's the route to take and if it least I can save the case and drives it will at least save some money. Plus look at the case! I think it's pretty cool with the blue LEDs etc, even though that was a fad quite a while ago....


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#8
phillpower2

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You have done well for that PSU to last as long as it has without going bang, the HEC brand is often referred to as junk, see info at toms link here, HEC is listed in category five  :(

 

You will do better to source your own parts as it will be less expensive, let us know your maximum budget and we can see what is available.

 

Link from my sig How to Build Your Own Computer


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#9
phillpower2

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Not heard back from you percman, do you still require assistance or is the issue now resolved, an update would be appreciated.


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#10
percman

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All parts have been ordered from Micro Center and I'm picking them up this weekend. I may need some help when assembling.

Did some research and came up with what I believe should be a pretty fast build:

16GB 4 x 4GB DDR4-2133 (PC4-17000) C15 Quad Channel Desktop Memory Module Kit
GeForce GTX 950 GAMING 2GB GDDR5 Short-Board Video Card
TR2 Series 600 Watt ATX Power Supply
Core i5-6500 3.2GHz LGA 1151 Boxed Processor
GA-Z170M-D3H LGA 1151 Intel Motherboard

The only thing that might be tricky is the fact the MB is microATX v full size. I assume that the holes will be the same?

Still trying to figure out Windows install questions. Based on the link before about fresh install of 10, does it retain the programs or wipe the slate clean? I'm hoping the former but can prepare for the latter.

Also, after placing the parts in, does the BIOS basically set itself? Anything I need to do? The only thing I would think is if I have a jump drive to boot to point to it as the initial boot device.

Thanks again.
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#11
phillpower2

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You have done well for that PSU to last as long as it has without going bang, the HEC brand is often referred to as junk, see info at toms link here, HEC is listed in category five  :(

 

You will do better to source your own parts as it will be less expensive, let us know your maximum budget and we can see what is available.

 

Link from my sig How to Build Your Own Computer

 

You would have been better to follow the guidance offered in my reply #8 as the PSU you have selected is of poor quality, not even 80%  efficiency output rated (a minimum of Bronze rated output efficiency is a must) and gets very poor reviews at Newegg here likewise with the MB that you have chosen, you should not have purchased a mATX board without first confirming that your case will actually accept one, smaller boards do not have much room which can be a problem with modern video cards as they tend to be quite long and 99.99% of video cards are dual slot and can come too close to MB components that get rather hot such as the Southbridge chip, the board also gets less than favorable reviews at Newegg here

 

Having 16GB of Ram is only worthwhile if you will actually utilise it by rendering video, games programming, do 3D modelling or CAD work, if the build is only for gaming 8GB of lower CAS latency would be appropriate.

 

A fresh installation of Windows is exactly that and no data on the drive would be retained.

 

After assembling the parts when you first power up you will need to access the BIOS and change the boot sequence to either DVD or USB first depending on the type of media being used as in DVD disc or USB thumb drive and in your case the SSD second in the boot order, you should also set the correct time and date while in the BIOS, these settings need to be saved before exiting the BIOS and this is commonly done by pressing F10.

 

Once Windows has been installed you need to install the drivers for the MB and by starting with the chipset drivers first, once the MB drivers have been installed move onto the GPU drivers and finally check for Windows updates.

 

It is most important that before assembling inside the case that you test the hardware outside of it, this is referred to as a bare-bones set-up or bread boarding, this is advised as you can identify any possible DOA components first hand which would not only save you time and trouble but also remove any doubt as to whether you did something wrong such as shorting out the MB with an incorrectly placed stand off etc.

 

The system build link that I included above is all you need for assembling inside of the case and for the bare-bones set-up see excerpt from my canned text for troubleshooting new builds below;

 

 
I suggest that you remove the MB and do a bare-bones set-up on a piece of cardboard (make sure it is larger than the MB) only connect the PSU, the GFX card, screen, 1 stick of Ram and the keyboard.
 
IF your MB doesn`t have a power  test switch you will then need to short out the 2 power on pins on the MB header to get the PSU to activate, you can use a small flat bladed screwdriver or a paper clip bent into a U shape, this is perfectly safe if you do not touch anything else, the idea is to see if we can get a BIOS screen if you do you can then add one component at a time until you find the problem component, you must power down and remove the power cord from the wall before adding another component

 

 


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#12
percman

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As I haven't picked up these parts yet, I can change them when I get to Micro Center. What would you recommend in a full size ATX MB for about the same price?

As far as a I know MicroCenter offers assembly help so manybe all the aspects you mention - driver install, system test, etc. can be done in store, I will check. My fear is missing any steps etc. would cause the same instability that the current system has.

Thanks for the advice on everything; I'll look for a better PSU as well. Just trying to not break the bank. The only reason I went with the 16BG Ram is that the 8GB kit was unavailable.
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#13
terry1966

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personally i don't see anything wrong with your motherboard choice, definitely get a better psu though, it's the most important part of any pc so never skimp on it, as phil said your looking for any psu rated at 80+ bronze or higher. eg :- h.t.t.p://www.microcenter.com/product/457414/500_Watt_80_500_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply[/url] (wrong link)
 

correct link :- http://www.microcent...TX_Power_Supply

 

I may need some help when assembling.

building a pc is easy enough just make sure to read the motherboard manual, it explains everything.
 
a video showing the build process :-
 
:popcorn:


Edited by terry1966, 27 March 2016 - 12:58 PM.

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#14
phillpower2

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Purchasing from MicroCenter is limiting your options I`m afraid percman.

 

Microcenter Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 LGA 1151 ATX Intel Motherboard

 

Newegg ASRock Z170 Pro4 LGA 1151 Intel Z170 

 

Newegg Ram

 

Microcenter do not have the bronze rated version of the Evga PSU but others do, see here


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#15
terry1966

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sorry phil put wrong link in my post the microcentre 80+ bronze psu is here :- http://www.microcent...TX_Power_Supply

 

:popcorn:


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