[stettybet0]

Evolutionism doesn't exist.

Evolutionism is a term rarely used by the scientific community to describe the theory of evolution. This is because the suffix -ism (as well as -ist as in evolutionist) accentuates belief over scientific study. It is more used by those trying to discredit the theory of evolution by portraying it as some sort of ideology, rather than a validated scientific theory. This would mean that the theory of evolution would simply be one of numerous interpretations of evidence (like an ideology), rather than the consensus reached by the scientific community.

For the record, the theory of evolution is completely secular, as it neither denies nor requires a role for divine intervention.

[Advertisements]

For the record, the theory of evolution is completely secular, as it neither denies nor requires a role for divine intervention.

The belief in evolution is a form of religion. Just as the followers of anton levey do not believe in divinity.
Again, this is a pointless discussion as nether one of use is going to give in. Please show me the same respect for my belief as I am willing to show you.

Edited by hfcg, 16 December 2008 - 10:18 PM.

[hfcg]

For the record, the theory of evolution is completely secular, as it neither denies nor requires a role for divine intervention.

The belief in evolution is a form of religion. Just as the followers of anton levey do not believe in divinity.
Again, this is a pointless discussion as nether one of use is going to give in. Please show me the same respect for my belief as I am willing to show you.

Edited by hfcg, 16 December 2008 - 10:18 PM.

[jt1990]

Again, this is a pointless discussion as nether one of use is going to give in.

I agree. I'll shut up now

[stettybet0]

There is a quote from the 2002 Harvard commencement speech given by former US Senator and former Harvard professor, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, that I think deserves a mention here.

You are entitled to your own opinion...but you are not entitled to your own facts.

As you may know, Harvard is famous for its law program, and the Senator was addressing many people who were soon to be involved with the law. Law, like science, is something that is based entirely on rational thought, rather than beliefs such as religion. What was being said is that you can believe whatever you like, but it should not interfere with rationality and factuality in an area where those things are key.

To suggest the theory of evolution is a "belief" or "religion" means that it would be something that people have faith in. Faith, by definition, is "unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not require proof or evidence." Thus, faith is just about the exact opposite of a validated scientific theory. Scientists have confidence in a validated scientific theory due to the evidence that exists in support of it, as well as the lack of evidence that exists against it. Not only this, but it is the very nature of science to always question everything, including previously established ideas. Some famous examples of this include going from thinking the Earth is flat to thinking it is round, and going from thinking the Sun revolves around the Earth to thinking the Earth revolves around the Sun.

Anyways, the point is that you are more than welcome to not accept the theory of evolution for whatever reason, but it is important to distinguish that in an area of study where belief and opinion have no place, it is necessary to show deference to the factual arguments, which are the only ones that hold weight in both the court of law and the fields of science.

No discussion that can enhance the knowledge of a fellow human being is ever pointless. Although some may be more closed-minded than others, who knows who may stumble upon this thread and have their horizons broadened?

[hfcg]

stettybet0, I would fight for your right to believe or think any thing even if I disagree. Please accept that I do not accept the theory of evolution, and let it go.
Oh, politicians are not capable of telling the truth.
If you believe in something that has not been proven it is religion.

[stettybet0]

As I stated, I'm not responding solely for your benefit, but for the benefit of all who read the topic. While your mind may be made up, some might be more willing to consider what others have to say.

Once again, no scientific theory can be proven. However, being validated is as close as a theory can get to being proven. The theory of evolution has been validated. Some other theories that have been validated are the theory of gravity and the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.

Again, the fact that you believe something has not been proven does not make it a religion. That is simply an opinion or a belief. A religion is a of way of life based on tenets about the ultimate power.

And again, one does not "believe" the theory of evolution. Either one chooses to accept the scientific evidence in support of it or not. A belief is something thought of as knowledge, with little or no supporting evidence for it. Once a belief gains sufficient supporting evidence, it becomes what is known as a justified true belief, more commonly known as a fact.

I sincerely hope the statement about politicians was a joke. The fact that you discredit an entire group of people based on a stereotype is a viewpoint I cannot respect. Discriminating based on profession is just as wrong as discriminating based on race, gender, etc. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was an extremely intelligent man who worked at Harvard University, MIT, and Wesleyan University throughout his life. He authored 19 books and was presented with the Hubert H. Humphrey award for "notable public service by a political scientist." His scholarly accomplishments led Michael Barone, writing in the Almanac of American Politics to describe Moynihan as "the nation's best thinker among politicians since Lincoln and its best politician among thinkers since Jefferson." The fact that he gave his life to public service is no reason for you to attack his credibility.

Regardless, the quote I used is a philosophical statement, which cannot be defined by simply true or false.

[hfcg]

I sincerely hope the statement about politicians was a joke

Yes, it was meant as a joke. Trying to lighten up a too serious conversation.
And yes, I am being bull headed.

[stettybet0]

Yes, it was meant as a joke. Trying to lighten up a too serious conversation.

I'm glad to hear that. And we are in the "serious discussion" forum, after all...

[charge06]

There is no such thing as evolution!
This is not an arguable point as evolution has never been proven.
Man can not be compaired to the animals as we are self aware, animals are not.
Man has found ways to better ourself because the human spirit strives for achivment.
Do you fell good after you have acomplished something?
Of course, every one wishes to look back and see that they did something and it is good.
When humans do not achive acomplishments they become depressed.
It is in our nature to advance to a higher level.

There is no such thing as evolution!
This is not an arguable point as evolution has never been proven.

True,, you can say the Same about God( has never been proven that he exsists either)

If i would believe in evolution alot more than religion. Evolution makes more sence to me than just being created from nowhere by a supernatural being. One thing i think makes me lean more towards evolution is the Homo erectus. or was Homo erectus gods failure at creating man.

Edited by charge06, 25 December 2008 - 10:42 PM.

[hfcg]

True,, you can say the Same about God( has never been proven that he exsists either)

Then both are equally valid theories.
But you missed my point.
Do you get offended when people try to shove God down your throat? Tired of people trying to force you to follow their beliefs? ("Your wrong if you do not believe this, do that, dont do this, ETc...)
Well, I am tired of having evolution shoved down my throat. I am tired of being told my beliefs are not valid.
I do not care what some one believes, they have a right to believe it! (And I would fight for your right to disagree with my beliefs)
I do not believe in shoving my beliefs down your throat, it is just not right.
The rules at this forum (and most other forums) is that religion is not discussed because it may offend some people.
Well I am offended by evolution, so I do not feel that it should be discussed.
I ask people to respect my right to my beliefs, just as I respect their right to their beliefs.
(Oh, I disagree with a lot of what the so called religous people say because they are just saying how great they are and every one else is low.)

[BHowett]

Just a reminder

This forum is for serious, civilized and thoughtful debate regarding potentially controversial topics. Please remember to respect your fellow forum members. No name calling, personal attacks, insults, harassment, etc. State your opinions, but don't try to impose them on others. Due to their volatile and sensitive nature, we will not allow discussions related to abortion, religion, politics, or sex. Posts that don't meet these guidelines may be edited or deleted at the moderator's discretion.

This topic is starting to cross the line, so please stay on topic and respect others opinions. If it goes any farther I will put an end to it.

[CompooterDummy]

I love books and routinely hunt through thrift shops and used book stores looking to score a good title. I think I would have completely overlooked a title today were it not for seeing Moynihan's name mentioned in a discussion here. After having read this thread recently, I guess his name was fresh in my mind, so it just kind of popped out at me while I was browsing. I was unaware that he was such a prolific writer. Anyway, I'm enjoying my new book. So, if your goal here was really to broaden horizons, as someone mentioned earlier, then I thought I'd let you know you succeeded

[emeraldnzl]

People have always believed what they want to believe even when evidence suggests they are wrong.

Remember, beliefs, as apposed to empirical findings, are of human construct and for the purpose of persuading others of their truth.

Untold misery has come about from it, but only when people try to impose their beliefs on others.

I think for that reason the Geekstogo decision to not allow discussion on these topics is a good one .

[hfcg]

People have always believed what they want to believe even when evidence suggests they are wrong.

Remember, beliefs, as apposed to empirical findings, are of human construct and for the purpose of persuading others of their truth.

Untold misery has come about from it, but only when people try to impose their beliefs on others.

I think for that reason the Geekstogo decision to not allow discussion on these topics is a good one .

I agree with the policy 100%.
. I did not intend to offend any one (as it seems that I have), and tried to make my point with out going over any lines.
To any one who felt offended I truelly do feel remorsefull.
It is never my intent to force some one to accept my beliefs, or make them feel that their beliefs are wrong.
I do ask that my beliefs not be belittled is all.
I should have just kept my mouth shut, and not even try to express my feelings on the matter.
It would appear that I am not well liked now.

[emeraldnzl]

It would appear that I am not well liked now.

Rubbish.

Nothing to do with being liked.

Like your avatar.