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very noisy fan


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#1
zurzu

zurzu

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hello everybody,

I have a problem which is driving me nuts. My cpu fan is very very noisy (motherboard P5AD2 deluxe).
According to Asus probe and AI-booster my temperature is at 60c, which i don't beleive is too hot. The fan, however is turning at 100% 4440 NUTS! All i'm doing is surfing!
The only other fans i have is the chassis fan and the one in the graphic card (ati allinwonder x1800xl)

I tried to force down the fan speed with SpeedFan to 70%, it worked and the temperature rose only slightly. However, this only works when speed fan is active, i don't think it's a solution.

Any ideas please?


zurzu

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OS Information:
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OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional|C:\WINDOWS|\Device\Harddisk0\Partition1
Service Pack 2.0
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS


Processor:
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Current Clock Speed 3412
Description x86 Family 15 Model 3 Stepping 4
Manufacturer GenuineIntel
Name Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 3.40GHz

Current Clock Speed 3412
Description x86 Family 15 Model 3 Stepping 4
Manufacturer GenuineIntel
Name Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 3.40GHz


Memory (RAM):
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Bank Label BANK0
Capacity 536870912

Bank Label BANK1
Capacity 1073741824

Bank Label BANK2
Capacity 536870912

Total Memory Deteced in Hardware: ~2048 MB
Memory Reported to Operating System: 2047MB

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Model WDC WD1200JD-00GBB0
Media Type Fixed hard disk media
Size 120031511040 (~112 GB)
Number of Partitions 1

Description Disk drive
Manufacturer (Standard disk drives)
Model Maxtor 5 4098H8 SCSI Disk Device
Media Type Fixed hard disk media
Size 40978344960 (~38 GB)
Number of Partitions 1


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Name Microsoft Office Document Image Writer
Port Name Microsoft Document Imaging Writer Port:
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Driver Name Microsoft Office Document Image Writer Driver

Name HP DeskJet 1220C Printer
Port Name USB001
Default True
Driver Name HP DeskJet 1220C Printer

Name Amyuni PDF Converter
Port Name LPT1:
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Driver Name Amyuni PDF Converter 2.09

Name Adobe PDF
Port Name My Documents\*.pdf
Default False
Driver Name Adobe PDF Converter


Motherboard:
PropertyValue
Manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer INC.
Model
Name Base Board
Part Number
Product P5AD2-Deluxe
Serial Number MB-1234567890
Version Rev 1.xx


BIOS:
PropertyValue
Manufacturer American Megatrends Inc.
Name BIOS Date: 10/12/05 09:20:30 Ver: 08.00.10
Release Date 20051012000000.000000+000
Version A M I - 10000512


Monitor:
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Description Dell M991
Name Dell M991
Screen Height 960
Screen Width 1280

Description Default Monitor
Name Default Monitor
Screen Height
Screen Width


Keyboard:
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Description HID Keyboard Device


Pointing Device:
PropertyValue
Manufacturer Logitech
Name HID-compliant Cordless Mouse


Sound Card:
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Manufacturer C-Media
Description C-Media High Definition Audio Device
Device ID HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_434D&DEV_4980&SUBSYS_813D1043&REV_0900\4&3AB10393&0&0001

Manufacturer Logitech
Description Logitech Microphone (Zoom)
Device ID USB\VID_046D&PID_08B4&MI_01\6&4A3FE5&1&0001


Video Card:
PropertyValue
Adapter Compatibility ATI Technologies Inc.
Adapter RAM 268435456
Description All-in-Wonder X1800XL
Installed Display Drivers ati2dvag.dll
Driver Version 6.14.10.6606
Driver Date 22-Mar-06 03:56:22
Video Mode Description 1280 x 960 x 4294967296 colors

Adapter Compatibility ATI Technologies Inc.
Adapter RAM 268435456
Description All-in-Wonder X1800XL Secondary
Installed Display Drivers ati2dvag.dll
Driver Version 6.14.10.6606
Driver Date 22-Mar-06 03:56:22
Video Mode Description


DirectX Installation:
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Version 6.03.01.0148


Modem:
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Network Adapters:
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Description Marvell Yukon 88E8053 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller - Packet Scheduler Miniport
Description Packet Scheduler Miniport
Description Microsoft TV/Video Connection

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External Reference Designator PS/2 Mouse
External Reference Designator PS/2 Keyboard
External Reference Designator USB1
External Reference Designator USB2
External Reference Designator USB3
External Reference Designator USB4
External Reference Designator USB5
External Reference Designator USB6
External Reference Designator USB7
External Reference Designator USB8
External Reference Designator LPT 1
External Reference Designator COM 1
External Reference Designator MIDI
External Reference Designator Joy Stick
External Reference Designator Audio Line Out1
External Reference Designator Audio Line Out2
External Reference Designator Audio Line Out3
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External Reference Designator Audio Line Out5
External Reference Designator Audio Line Out6
External Reference Designator SPDIF_OUT1
External Reference Designator SPDIF_OUT2
External Reference Designator GbE LAN 1
External Reference Designator FireWire 1
External Reference Designator FireWire 2



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#2
Neil Jones

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There's usually an option in the BIOS for CPU Fan Speed control or auto throttle or something to that effect.
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#3
troppo

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well first of all 60 degress C is far to hot for a CPU that is under no load you NEED to cool that down before you do some major damage to your compnents

did you build this PC yourself?

if so did you apply good quality thermal paste? if not i would suggest going out and getting some artic silver 5 and replacing the thermal grease of the CPU fan motherboards obvesily detect the temp of the CPU and throttel the fan accordingly if the fan is running at max RPM then sure its going to be noisy and loud and thats because your computer is trying to stop itself overheating and causing damage

dont throttle the CPU fan down until you get the cooling issue sorted because if you do than you are likely to cause damage to your components

How many fans do you have installed in your case (size and places) and what case are they all in???

can you please run an extensive program and report back with teh temps the CPU is runnig at under FUll load?? BUT make sure that you dont do this for a long time because if your CPU is ruinnign at 60C under no load your CPU will rise by around 10-15 degress and you could cause damage, the reason i ask fot this is to determine weather or not the sensor is faulty.

and by the way i have an intel P4 3.0Ghz CPU thats been overclocked to 3.4 GHz (look in sig) and mine only runs at around 38 C under no load with a stock intel fan so yours shouldnt be anywhere near that temp

troppo

Edited by troppo, 08 September 2006 - 06:29 PM.

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#4
SRX660

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In the bios take a look at the fan controls. If you set the temp a bit higher for highspeed fan control it may run at a slower speed.

The better solution to the problem is to buy a zalman or thermotake heatsink. These are whisper quiet and cool much better than the stock fan.

http://www.directron...ps7700alcu.html

If you have a intel socket 775 i would prefer the thermotake blue orb cooler as its a few Db quieter. I have a blue orb on a cedar mills cpu that running at 34° idle and all i hear is the power supply fans running.

SRX660
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#5
zurzu

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Neil,

your are right, tthe Q-fan was off! why i don't know. So, following this advice, i have turned it on again as well as removing some more dust from the fan-unit.

This has lead to the fan running at 69% 2280 (very quiet) but the temperature is at 57c. it's very, very calm, but then again, all i'm doing is surfing/typing

Troppo

No, i didn't build it myself, i don't think i'm quilfied, neither are many "professionals" imho, but that is another story. I have therefore decided to learn as much as i can myself (thanks to the internet forums).
So, what is thermal paste?

I have two fans, one for the cpu (it came with the p5ad2 deluxe) and a standard chassi fan (which is not connected to any sensor, don't know how 2 do it), then another one in the graphic card, i guess, but this one i hardly hear.

will try to make a test with Oblivion or something...tough


SRX660

definately need to consider it.

Any ideas how to disassemble the fan unit?


thank you all...


zurzu
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#6
SRX660

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Taking the heatsink of the CPu is easy and its not easy. If yours is the 478 type clip there are 2 grey arms on the top of the fan assembly. Flip these over so it is loose, then take a skinny flat screwdriver and use it to pull each leg out far enough to pull the leg up over the bottom piece.Once the legs are pulled up,lift the whole fan unit off. The heatsink will probably come with the fan unit, but it may not. You can separate the fan unit from the holddown unit easily. You should be able to lift the heatsink off the cpu now, also. Aftermarket heatsinks dont use the intel holddowns so each should have instructions on how to install.

Intel 775 heatsinks are even easier to work with. Four plastic screws to turn and pull the HS off.

SRX660
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#7
Bartender

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zurzu -
Your CPU fan is probly the stock Intel HSF assembly since, as you say, it "came with the P5AD2". Actually, it woulda come with the CPU. ASUS doesn't supply CPU heatsinks AFAIK. If it is the stock HSF that comes with a retail boxed Intel Pentium 4, it'll have the little "Intel" sticker on the fan hub.
Anyway, take a good look at the HSF assembly. Then google some pictures of HSF's. Newegg has lots of pictures on their website. However you do it, just find out for sure what you have now. The stock Intel HSF assembly is noisy. It's also not particularly efficient. And I HATE those plastic quarter-twist locking tabs at each corner that hold down the assembly.
One problem (if you consider it a problem, some of us would just think of it as a minor annoyance) is that many (most?) of the aftermarket HSF's require removal of the motherboard so that a backing plate and/or accompanying bits of hardware can be placed behind the four holes on a Pentium motherboard. For you, that might just be an opportunity to learn some more.
I like SPCR. Here's their latest list of coolers, ranked by noise primarily. Thing is, the quietest ones are often the coolest ones because the 2 go hand in hand. If the heatsink doesn't cool well the fan has to push more air, resulting in more noise.
http://www.silentpcr...le30-page1.html
The Scythe Mine is one of SPCR's favorites, yet the Sept 2006 MaximumPC gave the Mine a "5". What's up with that? The Mine wouldn't fit on their reference AMD board. This brings up another point, one that might be difficult to verify before spending your hard-earned money - some of these huge heatsinks don't fit on some boards. So that's another aspect to research a little. Maybe you can post here and get some answers.
I'm running a Zalman 9500, modified with a larger fan. My no-load CPU temp is 43C right now. Ambient temp is 18C. (troppo, how the heck are you getting 38C with the stock fan?? Is your PC in the fridge?)
If I had it to do over, I'd get either the Thermalright UL-120 or the Ninja. SPCR rates both higher than the Zalman, and they're cheaper!
There are online guides for applying thermal paste. Arctic Silver has one on their website.
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#8
zurzu

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Thanks for the info.

I agree, this is the best way to learn. i have to say that i have learned a lot thanks to the technical incompetence of competent salespersons.....Unfortunately, here in Geneva, it seems to be the norm.

At least forums like this exist!

I managed to remove the fan/sink, boy was it dusty! Anyway all clean now and chugging away more silently but seems to insist on hovering on the 60-63c with an rpm of 4218 (relatively quiet). Interestingly, the Asus Probe seems to be happy with these values...

I have to say that my chassi fan is of the crappier type, no monitoring possible, silent but very weak.

I have not dared to run oblivion yet...

Bartender/SRX660, my fan/sink is exactly what you describe. An Intel 775 heatsink which i probably should change.

Again, this kind of stuff is not easy to get off-the-shelf here. I'll try online perhaps.

BTW, opening up the case cover drops the temperature quite a few degrees....

thanks

zurzu

Edited by zurzu, 09 September 2006 - 01:10 PM.

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#9
Neil Jones

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I've yet to see a Socket 775 motherboard (mainly Socket 775 but on occasion Socket 478) that has an option in BIOS to allow the CPU to run at anything below 60 degrees C if you use the auto-throttle option complete with the stock Intel cooler. Of course, temperature can fall to the low 50's if you turn this off BUT it generates so much noise its incredible.

Edited by Neil Jones, 09 September 2006 - 04:21 PM.

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#10
troppo

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Bartender:
ha ha ha lol that was a good one early in the morning. the reason i hve got the temps so low is just because of choosing the right stuff!!!

for example i have all my gear in a cooler master centurion 5 i no its not the best looking case out there but its really really good on cooling it has a compleate mesh front allow for large airflow. there is an 80mm fan in the front blowing air over the hard drives and through the case. the case is all neat with wires allowing maximum airflow. there is a 120mm fan in the back blowing air out. one of the reasons why the temps are low is also because inside the case there is a slight negative pressure meaning that there is 'supposably' more air going out than is coming in physically sucking air out. plus also its in the freezer cause we all no intels get hot :whistling: lol

zuzu:

thermal paste/grease/goo is what sits in between the large heatsink bottom and the top of the CPU. The reason it is there is so that the maximum amount of heat can be drawn from the CPU and trasfered to teh heatsink where the heat is then blown away. if you have ever seen a brand new heatsink you will notice that the bottom is extreamly shiny and smooth this has a purpose! if you were to install a heatsink without any thermal grease then what happens is in between the heatsink bottom plate and the CPU die is tiny air pockets or bubbles form between the two surfaces (even thou the heatsink plate is buffed almost to perfection there is still microscopic scatches that traps air)
the role of the thermal grease is to go between the heatsink and the CPU die and fill the gaps

so there is no point having a good heatsink if there is no good thermal paste one os only as efficiant as the other sort of thing

now i gather that you managed to remove the heatsink without breaking anything! nto bad for a first time LOL
now the problem is, is that you should be running your computer with out a fresh coat of thermal grease go to www.newegg.com and order some form them make sure its artic silver 5 its the best stuff out at the moment,

is your chassis fan connected to your motherboard or power supply (is it running?)
if not then you should get this runnning

also if none of this helps you might also want to upgrade your case say, t somehtign bigger and more efficiant a new case can do wonders but if your still a little inexperianced then this mgith not be the best option,

hope i could help a little,

troppo
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#11
Bartender

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zurzu -
You may have given us an important clue when you mentioned that the CPU temp drops with the case side off. A sort of "smoking gun".

The CPU heatsink/fan churns away right on top of the CPU. It's essentially a spot treatment for what should be the single hottest component inside. (This is no longer true with the most powerful video cards now on the market, some of which create more heat than the CPU, but let's not get off track!) The CPU fan does nothing to move heat OUT of the case. If the case isn't evacuating built-up heat, then the CPU fan just blows hotter and hotter air across the heatsink, accomplishing less and less.

Betcha when troppo removes the side cover on his Centurion CPU temps don't drop very much. That's because the case is already efficiently evacuating the built-up heat inside the case.

In your case, I think it's time to take a good look at the other fans in your system. You should have a fan in your power supply (PSU) that's sucking air out of the case, and you should have a fan mounted to the back of the PC's case, also blowing out. Can you check on these for us, and make sure they're blowing the right way? Are there any more fans, such as in the front of the PC, mounted down low, blowing inward? That one isn't very common on stock PC's butcha never know.

Is this a big box PC (Dell, HP, etc.) or one assembled by a local shop or friend? If it was assembled from off-the-shelf parts you should be able to identify the case manufacturer and model. Can you try to do that please, and post the info? If not, maybe you could attach a picture. I'm new to this forum so don't know how that works...
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#12
zurzu

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Well, i finally did the hardcore test...Oblivion.

It didn't go too well, the temperature mounted all the way up to 72 while my lovely fan kept a leiseurely (and quiet) 3000rpm i did react by rising from about 2700 but didn't seem to be bothered too much...

I have tried tweaking with the q-fan option, ratio, min. temperature, etc. and even turning it off, no difference.

Strange, friday the fan was going bezerk at 100% and after a cleanup it refuses to work properly.

What's going on?

Re. other fans. I have a crappy chassis fan+fan for the transformer, build-in fan for the graphic card.
They are blowing the right way though...i think... :whistling:

perhaps it's time to look for or start a thread for an affordable and efficient cooling-system....

Edited by zurzu, 10 September 2006 - 01:38 PM.

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#13
Bartender

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zurzu -
Here's another interesting SPCR article, their revised power supply recommendations.
http://www.silentpcr...le28-page6.html
One interesting thing I read in one of their reviews on PSU's...it makes perfect sense but how many people have thot about this? An 80% efficient PSU creates a lot less heat than a 70% efficient supply. That much less heat to get out of the case.
I'm running a Seasonic 330W with my 3 GHz P4 and it's never started ramping the fan up. But I'm using onboard video, so it's a fairly low-power setup (aside from the CPU).
Have you taken a look at the Antec B-stock page?
http://www.antec.com...pro_b_stock.php
Some of these come with PSU's, some without. For instance, I'm pretty sure the Sonata II comes with a PSU, since a brand new one does. By the time you add the shipping you're not saving that much over a new one, but still might be worth checking out.
SPCR also has a section on case ratings, ranked by quiet and cooling
http://www.silentpcr...le75-page1.html
You might find that helpful too

Anandtech is a good site for info. Here's their cases/cooling section
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/
Take a look at their latest Thermaltake review. I think that Aguila is cool-looking!

As far as your fan goes, I don't know why Q-Fan is acting squirrely. Are you sure the power plug is making full contact? If that third pin isn't making up, then Q-Fan won't be able to read the speed and it might be sending a default signal. Of course, if you can read the fan speed in BIOS or Q than that's not the problem. Maybe someone who's really familiar with Q-Fan will chime in...my problem is I don't have a clue what's controlling the fan voltage. Something's watching CPU temp and fan voltage, but is it your BIOS, Q-Fan, or what?
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#14
troppo

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zuzu:
absoultly no offnece intended but even though you are not experianced with computers i still would suggest maybe looking into a new case for your components.

72 degress is extream and i would not run oblivion or any itensive programs again until you get this temp thing sorted you could destroy your computer. and im sure you wouldnt want to do that.

in this case i dont even think that a better heatsink and fan assembaly would benifit you in anyway. no air is flowing through or around the case and this is bad. a new case is deffinetly called for in this situation.

changing cases isnt extreamly hard (provided that you got someone to build this for you and its nto a dell,hp or anything else)
its just really some common stuff and some things that we will help you through but before i go any further would you consider changing cases??? and whilts you are doing that install some case fans and apply new thermal grease???

this i belive is a neccasary step in cooling down your PC with out it you could do hundreds of dollars worth of damage to your computer

troppo
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#15
zurzu

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Bartender, thanks for the links, i'm going to have a look...

And, yes, sigh...i have been suspecting that my box is useless in terms of ventilation...


I probably have to look at a general solution with both box,fans, heatsink...

Thanks again

zurzu
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