[silencedmessage]

Hello all,

I would like to start out simply by saying that I truely do love America, and I am quite proud to be a citizen of the United States. So please, do not misinterperate anything I say in the following topic. Thanks!

This is something that many of you may have heard before, and many of you may not have heard. Being 17 years old deffinately has its benefits. I am old enough to get my licence (at least where I live in the US), I am starting to be looked at as more of a mature person rather than just a "child", and I can still find the time in life to do a lot of the things i enjoy without being over-burdoned by the stress of work, family life, and many other things. There is one thing about this that has been really irking me as of recently. With elections coming up and such, I am encouraged to sit back and pay attention to all that is happening in both state and federal government, and my elders tell me to start making my own educated opinions on who I WOULD vote for if I were eligable.

That is a part of what bothers me. I am not elidgable to vote, yet if I were to commit a horrific crime, I would be put on trial as an adult. I have friends who have gone to court at the age of 17 and the judge has told them, "well you are old enough to make your own decisions, you should have known better". I personally have never had to go to court, and i plan on keeping it that way for a long time; however, if I were to commit a crime such as murder today, I would be put on trial as an adult. The theory behind this is that I am allegedly mature enough to make my own conscious informed decisions, and that I knew exactly what I was doing when I committed the crime. That would be a decision which would completely change the entire outcome of my life. Then why is it, that I am not conisdered old enough nor educated enough to vote? A large group of adults always remind teenagers that we are the future of America, and that what we do now can greatly affect what happens in the future: good or bad.

Someone told me, "well, that is because the court system works different from the privledges you get with age." That statement is correct in many ways, but so very wrong at the same time. Many things that we take for granted or even call "rights" are actually privledges granted to us. Well, if the court system works seperately from those, and can dictate wether we are to be considered adults on a case-by-case basis, then I think it is only fair to point out that the very same court selected and dictate those very priveledges.

Now, I am well aware that this may be coming off as immature, and rather impatient, but I personally feel that a country which claims to run off of a strong set of morals such as freedom, justice, the persuit of happiness and many others should not change the "age barriors" for punishments and not for freedoms as well. I think that if you are going to do that for one, you must do the same for the other. Once again, I would go to jail and be prosecuted the same as an adult at my age, yet I am not considered an adult when it comes to making decisions that are going to have a much larger effect on my life than it will on the people who are chosen to vote for me. The reason I say that is because in most instances, people who are younger today will live longer than those who are older. This is just common sense.

If somehow, some way, we were able to impliment new laws allowing those who were able to comprehend enough to make an informed decision on who to vote for it could have the potential to make America much stronger of a society. Also, I am trying my best to look from both sides here. I know for a fact that there would be some people who would just abuse this privlege and take it as more of a joke than anything; however, please remember that there is always going to be that little group of people no matter what the age is, no matter what the topic at hand is, and no matter where you are.


If someone has a decent explanation on how this is fair, I am all ears. The way I am seeing things right now though, I am truley upset about this. I have not completely closed myself out from hearing any logical explanation for this, rather i really would like to hear one. I am sure there must be a reason for it, I have just yet to find it.


-Silenced Message

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Well there is a significant difference in the mental age and capacity required to know right from wrong and make eductated decisions on government policy while i know some 15-16-17 year olds that are mature enough to vote i know plenty that arent. Now im sure there could be ways to distinguish levels of maturity enough to vote earlier but it would be difficult to implement so its best to have a simple age requirements where at which there is a good chance a significant proportion of people are able to vote and do so properly informed.

Mind you i think this will be my first year that i can actually vote(been able to for well over a year but inconveniently there hasnt been any elections).

But to be honest you have plenty time to vote in your life an extra year or two wont hurt and chances are most people wouldnt get to vote anyway until they are over 18, i might not even be able to use my ability to vote till im 20 just by bad timing.

What i would be more worried about is that you cant drink till you are 21, thats terrible i couldnt take it, you could be married for 5 years, became a veteran done any number of important things with your life, but you cant walk into a pub and get a pint with your mates. Im not a heavy drinker but i like to drink on occasion and i like going to the pub not being able to that at 19 and 20 years of age would be a crime in itself.

[warriorscot]

Well there is a significant difference in the mental age and capacity required to know right from wrong and make eductated decisions on government policy while i know some 15-16-17 year olds that are mature enough to vote i know plenty that arent. Now im sure there could be ways to distinguish levels of maturity enough to vote earlier but it would be difficult to implement so its best to have a simple age requirements where at which there is a good chance a significant proportion of people are able to vote and do so properly informed.

Mind you i think this will be my first year that i can actually vote(been able to for well over a year but inconveniently there hasnt been any elections).

But to be honest you have plenty time to vote in your life an extra year or two wont hurt and chances are most people wouldnt get to vote anyway until they are over 18, i might not even be able to use my ability to vote till im 20 just by bad timing.

What i would be more worried about is that you cant drink till you are 21, thats terrible i couldnt take it, you could be married for 5 years, became a veteran done any number of important things with your life, but you cant walk into a pub and get a pint with your mates. Im not a heavy drinker but i like to drink on occasion and i like going to the pub not being able to that at 19 and 20 years of age would be a crime in itself.

[Mr. Green]

Excellent points warriorscott, the drinking one never made any sence to me, especially when put in contrast with the getting married thing. I was in Bosnia before I could legally smoke or drink. I personally think if they are to have one item at 21 and others at 18 they either need to lower them all to 18 or raise them all to 21.

[GrantG]

You might want to think twice about getting married before you can drink too. You'll need it.

[silencedmessage]

Well thank you for your input all, but I still dont understand why they feel it is OK to change the "views" on age restriction for punishments and not rewards.

Then again, there are a lot of things i do not understand about the government...


remind me never to become a polotician

[warriorscot]

Well really voting isnt a reward its a responsibility a civic duty sure some want to do it(mostly those that cant) but its not something you are rewarded with age its something you are given the ability and responsibility to do.

People know right from wrong at quite a young age and if they commit a crime the punishment suits the crime not the age of the person commiting it unless particularly young here the age where someone can be tried as an adult is very low (8 years old) and that doesnt mean they will be tried as an adult but they can be and in a particularly heinous crime they have been tried and sentenced as adults.

Now while for example a 12 year old knows not to murder someone for calling him a name its unlikely that they would even know how many levels of government there are how to vote, where to vote and who to vote for would be a complete mystery even if explained its doubtful they would be able to participate meaningfully in an election. However if the 12 year old had brutally stabbed the other boy that called him names he could understand that it was wrong and it was a crime he would then be tried and convicted based upon his crime not his age. Right and wrong is a simple idea politics is more complicated in the US you are pretty lucky you only effectively have a two party system Britain has what is pretty much a 3 party system and in Scotland its a 4 party system. When i was younger i always thought i would vote SNP because well they play on notions of patriotism and independence and sean connery does the political announcements on TV if James Bond votes SNP thats good enough for me. At least that is what i thought at the time however now im a little older and wiser i can see clearly that they are nationalists like any other, mostly idiots that bend the facts to their liking with little understanding if the history of their own nation and its economics. if i had been allowed to vote at 16 i would have made a grave error.

I hope this clears it up a bit for you. But seriously you should be more worried about why you cant have a beer. lol.

[Mr.Chow]

Well really voting isnt a reward its a responsibility...

Well it's more of a privilage if you think about it. You are not required to vote, some people do think of it as a responsibility.

(only sharing my views on what i think voting is)

As for age though. I hear you ! I'm 17 also. I consider myself like you a responsible teenager, but it is unfortunate because it takes a few teenagers to ruin things for us.

I do belive there should be a age limit BUT, if I'm allowed to vote and go to prison i do belive i should have a right to drink!

[dsenette]

my personal opinion? enjoy the lack of responsibility while you can...even if it's something as simple as voting...be glad that you don't actually have to deal with it...

[warriorscot]

In some countries it is actually a legal requirement to vote and the way turn out is going in many elections many more countries will go that way. I think Australia has such a policy.

[harrythook]

my personal opinion? enjoy the lack of responsibility while you can

A lot of us tried, but then there was that little problem with the draft. I got lucky, but a bunch of my friends did not.

My advice, don't grow up too fast. There is a lot to enjoy, age restricted or not.

Man, I wish I was 17 again..............................

[GrantG]

They're all only saying it because they're all old men:P

[silencedmessage]

WarriorScot,

You made some quite exceptional points on this topic, and I truely thank you for that. This is the whole reason I started the topic: I wanted to hear other peoples' views on the matter at hand to try to put it into a better prespective for myself.

And about the beer thing, lol...

I personally do not drink. I do my best to stay away from drugs and alcohol in general. I used to drink with my friends, even though it was "illegal..." and we were not supposed to be able to buy it, but beards are truely an amazing thing . This taught me an important lesson that I am truely happy to have learned very early in life. If you drink because you want to get drunk, then you are going to waste your life. Especially at my age. I would actually defend the age restriction on drinking... well, to a point. I think 18 would be perfectly acceptable... Long story short, i have already watched too many of my friends drop out of highschool and basically ruin the rest of their lives because they wanted to party instead of living up to their responsibilities.

Speaking of responsibilities,
dsenette
I would like to make an argument to your reply...

my personal opinion? enjoy the lack of responsibility while you can...even if it's something as simple as voting...be glad that you don't actually have to deal with it...

I think that there are many more responsibilities in a teenagers life than you may account for. Granted, they are not the same ones as an adult's life, but please allow me to list some things. When you are 17, you are normally getting your first "real job", trying your best to do well in school in the hopes of getting into a good college, nevermind schoalarships, you are trying to figure out what it is that you actually want to do with your life, you need to figure out WHAT college you want to go to if any, you have continual "peer pressure" to do things you dont want to do... it is your responsibility as a teenager to be able to resist and learn from expirence, and be above those influences...

I only listed a few, and some might right them off as more "stress related" than responsibilities, but I would like to point out that all of them are things that will determine the course of the rest of your life! If i choose right now that I dont want to go to school anymore, and take even the rest of this year off and complete highschool next year instead, then that would completely change my chances of getting into different colleges... etc etc

Long story short, If we take on the challenge to make responsible decisions in life today, we can live a good happy life tomorrow. If we make the wrong choices, it could change that potential outcome.

back to voting...(not to beat a dead horse, but i enjoy debating... so please dont mind me )

The same thing goes with voting. I cannot even tell you how many people had originally voted for George W. Bush, and then either completely denied it after some of the controversial things he did, or just admitted that they made the wrong decision. This has changed the outcome of America, has it not?

Well then please tell me how thats so different from a teenager deciding that money was too good, and went out and started working instead of finishing highschool and going to college. That teenager ended up as an adult in his/her late 40's who originally wanted to become a lawyer, and is now stuck working as a bagger at a local WalMart...

Voting is making a choice when given multiple options, and life is about making decisions given multiple options as well...

In my personal opinion, I truely think that the responsibilities imposed (not intentionally) upon American teenagers today has a much more personal outcome, and a wrong decision can end up being very much more radically bad in the end when we are talking about life decisions. At least when you vote, you have the rest of the country to help make the decision...


I do understand now one of the reasons why the had put that age restriction into effect, but I would still really like to discuss this topic further.


As a final note to Mr.Chow,

It does not take a FEW teenagers to ruin the name and create a bad sterotype for all of us... It really would only take one. For some reason, the human brain seems to remember bad things more so than good. I.E. You put your hand on a radiator as a child, and it hurts. You remember it will hurt you, but you will think of that before you will think of the fact that it is there to heat your house. I am also a motorcycle rider. I am given a bad name by a few "clubs" who did some bad things. I have nothing to do with any of them, and I actually refuse to join any motorcycle "club" or organization. Even though this is where i stand, i am still labeled by MOST people as a "big mean scary biker"...

I am sure many of you have heard of the Hells Angels...

Now how many of you think of the charity events they hold for all different kinds of great causes when you hear their name?


see my point?



-SilencedMessage


(sorry for the excessively long post)

[OR_Mtn_Man]

Voting is a privilege and a responsibility. The age limit was originally 21, the age limit of 18 was set back in the late 60's/early 70's. I can't remember exactly but I do remember that the first election I could vote in was not until I had just turned 21 (1972) so the new law didn't affect me at all.

At that time the argument for lowering the voting age was the fact that our young men and women were getting drafted into the military at 18 and were risking their lives in the defense of the country and yet did not have a voice in how the country was run. Politicians didn't want to listen because you offered nothing to them (no vote). The argument about serving your country at 18 finally started making sense and the law was changed to allow voting at 18. Since that time there is always talk about getting the 'youth' out to vote. It seems that the majority of our youth do not want to vote, either because they don't care, the issues don't matter to them, or they are just 'too busy' being young.

You seem to be an exception to this and I applaud your sense of civic duty and can certainly relate to your wanting to vote and have your opinion heard.

Should 17 or even 16 become the new voting age? The youth in America is growing up faster than they did before. Maybe it is time for another look at the voting age. But nothing in this country gets done quickly, the lawmakers (politicians) will only be willing to talk about it if they can be shown it will benefit them.

[james_8970]

Never read the whole topic however,
me being 17, i'd never want to see 16 and 17 year olds voting. While i spend time watching the political field i represent probably less then 2% of the kids our age that do. The few that do want to vote NDP, which would cause my country (canada) to become poor from thier spending habits and then there are the LARGE amounts of people that would vote on the party that would give them rights on smoking marijuana. Something that i'm afraid will become legalized in the near future. Not only that, we held an election at our school last year.....and the green party one it, with NDP in second. The green party is supposed to be a word of protest against all the polititians, and are not prepared to win an election. It would pose too large of a danger for a country to be run by kids. While i do agree that kids our age need to have a larger voice on whats going on around us, i don't think alowing us to vote is the way for that to happen.
As for drinking, age hasn't really ever stoped anyone
But i'm a strong believer that drinking should be changed to 19 (its 18 here), even though our elders will freely give it to us at my age, I hate to see the people who die from drunk driving during thier graduation day, I can't image dieing on my graduation day.....thats why i prefer to be the D.D.

James

Edited by james_8970, 21 October 2006 - 04:19 PM.

[silencedmessage]

I would have to agree with the both of you. as far as what james said about our opinions representing roughly 2% of the teenage population, i would have to agree. I would also just like to take the time to point out that the government in americ SHOULD be interesting in what the youth has to say, because they are able to recruit us as soon as we are juniors in highschool......

make any sense???