[james_8970]

yes it makes sence, but if we were to demand to vote. The next thing they'd do is make us pay taxes, since if we arn't paying taxes, why would half of thier platform matter to us. To make this more clear, what it comes down to is that they are spending the tax payers money (adults over 18) so thier platform would always be based on the interests of those people, because in general they'd be more concerened.
Also, i'd give up my chance to vote so that other idoits in my school couldn't, me and my friend knew more about the political platforms of the party's then most of the teachers in my school. What i'm getting to is that most people would rather vote on what thier parents did or what the current leader is rather then look into the platforms and search around and look at what political leader would be in the best interest of thier country.
James

Edited by james_8970, 21 October 2006 - 09:08 PM.

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Well, i couldnt agree with you, James, when you said

Also, i'd give up my chance to vote so that other idoits in my school couldn't

I was more referring to having some sort of system that would be able to determine those who were in a good enough state of mind to vote at a younger age. Of course, thinking about it more, this is not realistic at all, because many "adults" are not nearly informed enough. Also, in America, one of the biggest things is (allegdly) "equality." This would demolish that cause in way too many ways to get into.

but if we were to demand to vote. The next thing they'd do is make us pay taxes, since if we arn't paying taxes, why would half of thier platform matter to us.

The above statement is true, but at the same time it is not true at all. As soon as you start to work in America, they start taking out taxes for medicare and Social Security, although you get 100% of everything ELSE back at the end of the year. One major topic that is being discussed right now is Social Security. I am already (and have been the last 2 and a half years) paying Social Security. By the time I am old enough to recieve social seciruty, it will all be gone, and i will not benefit from it in the least bit. I feel that if I am paying for something, I should at least have a SMALL say in what happens with it. Medicare is also another thing which people are not sure what will happen with it in the near future, but once again, i have to wait before i can actually have my input on the topic, although im already paying for it.

Now I'm not completely sure that what i just said will make sense to anyone, but basically, i am already paying taxes. Although limited, i still pay. Why is it that I am not allowed to take part in the determination of where my money goes? I made the money by working (the same as "legal adults" do), and I am also old enough to recieve welfare insurance if i were living on my own, or basically depending on the circumstances. I can recieve other forms of "insurance" paid for by taxes too, but the whole point is that if i do pay some taxes and i can recieve the benefit from some taxes, why can i not have some say in the decisions pertaining to them?

[silencedmessage]

Well, i couldnt agree with you, James, when you said

Also, i'd give up my chance to vote so that other idoits in my school couldn't

I was more referring to having some sort of system that would be able to determine those who were in a good enough state of mind to vote at a younger age. Of course, thinking about it more, this is not realistic at all, because many "adults" are not nearly informed enough. Also, in America, one of the biggest things is (allegdly) "equality." This would demolish that cause in way too many ways to get into.

but if we were to demand to vote. The next thing they'd do is make us pay taxes, since if we arn't paying taxes, why would half of thier platform matter to us.

The above statement is true, but at the same time it is not true at all. As soon as you start to work in America, they start taking out taxes for medicare and Social Security, although you get 100% of everything ELSE back at the end of the year. One major topic that is being discussed right now is Social Security. I am already (and have been the last 2 and a half years) paying Social Security. By the time I am old enough to recieve social seciruty, it will all be gone, and i will not benefit from it in the least bit. I feel that if I am paying for something, I should at least have a SMALL say in what happens with it. Medicare is also another thing which people are not sure what will happen with it in the near future, but once again, i have to wait before i can actually have my input on the topic, although im already paying for it.

Now I'm not completely sure that what i just said will make sense to anyone, but basically, i am already paying taxes. Although limited, i still pay. Why is it that I am not allowed to take part in the determination of where my money goes? I made the money by working (the same as "legal adults" do), and I am also old enough to recieve welfare insurance if i were living on my own, or basically depending on the circumstances. I can recieve other forms of "insurance" paid for by taxes too, but the whole point is that if i do pay some taxes and i can recieve the benefit from some taxes, why can i not have some say in the decisions pertaining to them?

[james_8970]

Um i disagree.
Your first point could never be enforced, due to discrimination, how would you tell someone was to stupid to vote. Not to mention monitor thier every moment to verify that they truely are watching about politics.
Secondly, if you get all your money back except for 50$ a year, why complain. How far is 50$ going to get you? (if that)

and I am also old enough to recieve welfare insurance if i were living on my own, or basically depending on the circumstances. I can recieve other forms of "insurance" paid for by taxes too, but the whole point is that if i do pay some taxes and i can recieve the benefit from some taxes, why can i not have some say in the decisions pertaining to them?

then why complain about services that are virtually free at the moment.

I'm 17, I'd never want to see people my age voting and never will I in my life, i can guarentee you that much. Sure if i'd get the chance to vote i would, but for the time being i'll wait over watching my close friends vote.....the day the green party is elected in canada will be a very sad day indead......
James

Edited by james_8970, 22 October 2006 - 06:49 PM.

[silencedmessage]

James,

Towards the end of my first point, I basically stated that in reality it would never work, but I like the idea IN THEORY.

Secondly, my point about the money was not just the fact that I am loosing a small percentage of my check every week; rather, it was more the fact that if they wish to include minors into paying for a portion of something like that, I personally feel we should have a say in how that money is used. Although its a small amount, its the fact that we can voice our opinions until we are blue in the face, but in reality will most likely get us nowhere.

I am not complaining about the services persay, I am complaining more about the the pratice behind them. As many people are aware, America is very proud to be a democracy, and will do its best to make sure everyone everywhere knows it. A democracy is a government "by the people". The people in the country are supposed to make the decisions. Everyone has equal say. That is the theory... or so I am told.

I'm 17, I'd never want to see people my age voting and never will I in my life, i can guarentee you that much. Sure if i'd get the chance to vote i would, but for the time being i'll wait over watching my close friends vote.....the day the green party is elected in canada will be a very sad day indead...... upset.gif

You have made quite the point there James. We can always try our best to do what little we can by influencing others/peer pressure, and I suppose that counts for something. I would also like to remind you that I completely agree that the majority of people our age would not take voting seriously enough, and hence why we cannot vote.

As far as the second topic goes, I suppose you and I have differing opinions, which makes me rather happy. It is good to know that the youth of the world is not all too busy... destroying their brain cells... to actually hope for a decent future. If anything I said in this reply comes off as snappy, sarcastic or offensive in any way shape or form, I appologize right now. Nothing that I have written was meant to be taken in that context, but I am feeling a bit under the weather and am not functioning at 100%. Thanks in advance for your understanding.


-Silenced Message

[james_8970]

James,

Towards the end of my first point, I basically stated that in reality it would never work, but I like the idea IN THEORY.

If you knowing know that it won't work why do you hope that it'd follow though.

You have made quite the point there James. We can always try our best to do what little we can by influencing others/peer pressure, and I suppose that counts for something. I would also like to remind you that I completely agree that the majority of people our age would not take voting seriously enough, and hence why we cannot vote.

Voting would be a joke to 80% of the people that actually came to vote our age.
15% would vote to whatever party would give less strict drug rules.
5% would take it seriously.

I have mentioned once that my school had an election to see which party would win if youth our age were the only ones who votes....here where the scores.
40% green party
20% Bloc quebequois (french sepertist party of canada, not even on the balot in western canada, that i know of)
15% NPD
10% liberal
5% conservative

The results scared me.....the two partys that should be going for the top spot were sitting at the bottom.
James

[TaNkZ101]

I think it's horrible to allow 16 year olds behind the steering wheel of a car. They're kids!

[BlackHalo]

Here in South Africa, the situation is kind-of reversed. At the age of 16 you are old enough to obtain your learner's driving permit (you have to drive with someone who has a license). At the age of 18 you are old enough to drink, smoke, vote and obtain your driver's license but you are still technically a minor (by law). At the age of 21, you are deemed adult (by law and community) and you are also able to be tried as an adult in criminal cases. There are talks of having the legal age lowered to 18, but i'm not too sure of this.

In my opinion, i think our system works perfectly as is. At the age of 18, most people are mentally able to make the necessary decisions in life and can cope with most "adult" situations. The only thing that our 21-limit brings is the ability to marry or sign contracts without the consent of a parent/guardian. Other than that, you gain most of your 'freedom' at age 18. I voted for the first time when i was 18 and got my license at 18. I recently turned 21 and now i have to start considering taxes (as minors are exempt from taxes or limited here as far i know) and behaving myself (a friend told me, the only thing that makes 21 different is that now, if you get arrested, you sleep in a cell with the men, not the boys!Hehe).

Yeah, this was actually just to let you know how it works in other countries, hope it at least interested you.

[TaNkZ101]

It has! Here I think pretty much everything is 18. You're no longer a minor at 18. You can get you're driving license. What I really like here is a recent law they made: nobody for the first two years of having a driver's license can drive a car >100 horsepower. We have so many deaths over the summer. Last 2 summer's they've been reduced thanks to laws that were made for young drivers ("my daddy bought me an M5 for my graduation").

[BlackHalo]

O i agree totally on the driving thing. In the past year i've heard 100's of stories of young people who have died in car accidents (most of the time they shouldn't even have been behind the wheel in the first place).When i was 16 and got my learner's i was very mad when my parents wouldn't let me drive alone. I now see their point. At 16 (or even 18 in most cases) most people are NOT capable of handling a 1ton vehicle in an emergency situation (or in any situation for that matter). I like the idea of not being able to operate a 100hp vehicle in the first two years, very smart. Here i can get my license today and get in a Ferrari tomorrow. Which....in retrospect...is a bad idea.Heh.

[james_8970]

Where i live in canada, we must drive with someone that has had their license for a long period of time, for about 1 year. This I think is the best rule, no person can start driving a large vehicle right off the bad, in most cases anyways. The should being to slowly get themselves up to the point, the first thing i drove was a massive grain truck, i was lucky however that i was in the country, but looking back i should have never done this, because I not only put my life in jeopardy but all the lives around me. Laws need to be placed so that for at least one year, preferably 2, you'll be accompanied by and adult. I know the pressure with having friends in the back seat to go faster, its not fun, if you give in, you'll only get yourself into trouble.

Also i'm a strong believer of drinking being changed to the age of 19 or 21, to many people freely give alcohol to people my age, i have already had friends drive home drunk, it scares the [bleep] out of me when i find out the following day. Things are far from perfect around us and things need to change before they get better.
James

Edited by james_8970, 05 November 2006 - 03:37 PM.

[BlackHalo]

Indeed. I feel pretty strongly about drinking and driving. I'm usually designated driver because i know other people won't stay below the legal limit (here in South Africa the legal limit amounts to one beer) when out on the town. I don't much mind the drinking age being 18 here, my only issue is that people from 16 - 19 abuse this and figure they HAVE to get drunk. I don't think changing a law on this will make much of a difference though, it's just a tragic fact.

O, and here you can get your truck-license if you really feel the need. The test is harder but then you're allowed to drive any and all vehicles right off the bat. Which is also a bad thing in retrospect.

[Kat]

I don't think changing a law on this will make much of a difference though, it's just a tragic fact.

Heya BH! I see you're making yourself at home here!! That's awesome!

I agree with this completely. Unfortunately, changing laws won't make a bit of difference. The kids who want to drink...are going to drink. Period. I thank my stars every day that my 17 yr old doesn't drink or do drugs. Now to get my 11 year old to that point, as well.

[BlackHalo]

Haha! Settling in quite nicely Kat, thank ya Yeah, when i was 16 and i wanted beer, i managed to get it one way or another, law didn't much bother me. When i was underaged i didn't get asked for ID ONCE when buying alcahol. [bleep], if you want it bad enough, you'll get it. My booze-binge phase luckily only lasted for about 6 months. Which is why i'm designated driver these days :/ People know i can go to a party, have one beer or one drink and then say 'sorry, no more, i have to drive'. Meh, Marlboro's are my poison thank you. heh

[TaNkZ101]

here i bought cigarets for my dad a few times when i was as young as 12/13. you can get alcohol without anybody ever asking or saying a thing. I remember when I lived in a town in NJ for 5 years... every day a bunch of highschoolers would go accross the street to the store and buy a beer or two, so one day, the clerk called the police and said how every day all these kids are buying beer from my store, and he of course got a fine hahahah

[warriorscot]

Well drinking age here i think is fine most people can responsibly drink at 18 and face it if your old enough to kill someone your old enough to have a beer. I didn't drink much before i was under-age and i dont drink all that much after it really although i quite like going to the pub with friends now especially since the smoking ban. The law isnt the problem people are and thats irrespective of age alot of 40+ are worse than teenagers.

At 16 maybe to young to drive but 17 is the age here and it takes about 6 months to get your licence and by the time you get a car or regular use of one you are about 18 anyway which is fine. Drinking while drunk i dont know anyone thats done it under 21 i know it happens but its not anymore common at 18 than it is at 30 or 40 maybe even less because until im 21 i only have a half licence which means i can only get 6 points before its revoked and i have to resit the tests, thats one DUI, one driving without insurance, or two speeding tickets. Its not alot it keeps most peoples noses clean.

I suppose it all depends on how well you are taught to drive i know i was taught allot better than my parents my practical test was longer and harder, and i had a theory test which included multiple choice test on the highway code and a hazard perception(watch videos and identify all possible hazards in the time frame) and none of the tests are easy, i passed first time on both but most people i know didn't. It takes average of 24 lessons to pass here and that's not including going out without the instructor which you need to do just as much(here you need to be 21 and have a full licence to take someone out, i cant take my brother out but ill be able to take out my sister in two years when she learns).

And yes alot of younger people have accidents but they tend to drive allot and drive on more unfamiliar roads as they haven't learned the roads yet which is a bigger factor than just lack of experience, most 18 years olds will react better to an emergency than someone older because they remember what they were taught to do.

Age isnt a reason for bad drivers, some people will just always be bad drivers.

Also drink driving, if you let someone get in a car drunk with the keys you are as bad as them. If one of my friends tried to drive drunk i would take his keys, and if he tried to keep them i would break his fingers. I just don't take my car keys to the pub and i don't think anyone should unless you aren't drinking.